Tesla Autopilot Crashes into Motorcycle Riders - Why?

[Shiney]

Here is an interesting video I came across by FortNine (He does amazing motorcycle videos, I recommend his YouTube channel)

Anyway there is apparently some concern with the Tesla "autopilot" not being able to correctly judge how far away motorcycles are at night 


https://youtu.be/yRdzIs4FJJg


Cheers
Shiney

[Diesel]

I saw a doco a while ago where if a Tesla was boxed in by trucks on 3 sides and a motorcycle on the 4th, it will turn in to the motorcycle as the best option to protect its occupants in a crash avoidance scenario.  Hmmmm. 

[StinkyPete]

Let's not forget that this kind of technology are AIDS to driving.    What's the bloody driver doing if he's rear ended a motorcycle.  I say blame the driver and not the technology.

[NTRebel]

The driver is either on their phone or playing their computer games anything that gets them out of concentrating on driving which is no different to how they drive normal cars.

[Gadget]

Tesla Autopilot is just Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC). It used to rely on radar, and now relies on stereo vision and is proving more reliable.

My VW Golf ACC (radar basef) can make the same mistake with motorcycles which is why it gets a specific mention in the manual.

The ACC works very well and even though I use it a lot, I'm still vigulent.

Occasionally it detects the car in the right turning lane as a hazard and brakes, but I'd rather it was over cautious than not. I just push gently on the throttle and we continue on.

I remember all the complaints on how ABS braking was going to kill us all too.

Is an additional and very useful safety feature, as it reduces driver fatigue. Especially in stop/start traffic. It also frees up driver attention time to watch for hazards.

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[cravenhaven]

Tesla Autopilot is just Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC). It used to rely on radar, and now relies on stereo vision and is proving more reliable.

Tesla Autopilot is far more than ACC. It adjusts the set speed to the current speed zone, respond to changes of the speed zone, steers itself, changes lanes, overtakes other cars, recognises and responds to upcomming traffic lights and roundabouts.

[Diesel]

The goal of autopilots is to develop the technology to remove the most dangerous part of driving.... the human! We collectively are bad operators and responsible for over 1,000,000 deaths per year. Mechanical failure leading to death is miniscule in comparison to driver error.
Elon Musk said "How do you convince people to trust a robot that may kill 30 people per year? It's not perfect, but much better than the 30,000 per year right now from human error."

[Diesel]

Let's face it.... we've all had to take evasive action or emergency manouvres from other road users (even our own fault by coming in to a corner to hot), but how many have had to do this because of a Tesla on auto drive? I know it's early in the game - but the point is still there.

[Gadget]

Tesla Autopilot is just Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC). It used to rely on radar, and now relies on stereo vision and is proving more reliable.

Tesla Autopilot is far more than ACC. It adjusts the set speed to the current speed zone, respond to changes of the speed zone, steers itself, changes lanes, overtakes other cars, recognises and responds to upcomming traffic lights and roundabouts.

Full Self Driving (FSD $10,000+) and Enhanced Autopilot (EAP $5,100+) does those things.

Autopilot (AP) only maintains a safe distance and lane keeps. You still have to keep your hands on the steering wheel abs it will disengage if you don't. If you put the indicator on to change lanes, AP disengages.

It mostly recognises speed zones, however it is struggling with Australian variable speed zones on the motorways. It is also trading some 80 km/h signs as 30 km/h

I say this as someone who is 4 days and 48 minutes from taking delivery of my Tesla Model Y at midday on Wednesday, so I've been doing lots of research and watching lots of videos since 10 June.



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[Gadget]

Let's face it.... we've all had to take evasive action or emergency manouvres from other road users (even our own fault by coming in to a corner to hot), but how many have had to do this because of a Tesla on auto drive? I know it's early in the game - but the point is still there.

And the Autopilot is now using data from other Teslas who've been on that section of road to accumulate more data to make each road safer. What's the best speed, when to start braking for the corner, where the potholes are... etc.

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[cravenhaven]

Well I've had a bit more experience with a Tesla, though its been a while since I have driven without FSD so I could be forgetting the limitations. The default is lane keeping, but if you engage Autopilot it will steer the car within the lane (lane centering) including around corners, and it will maintain awareness of vehicles in neighbouring lanes. It will also change lanes after you indicate and it has decided that it is safe, but as you say it will then disengage which is a bit scary. TACC will not only maintain a safe distance but will perform as I mentioned above.

The electronic speed signs fool most modern cars as do a few other weird signs (speed signs on busses, speed signs on exits...), I suspect there will come a time of reckoning when the road authorites are going to have to make their roads compatible with modern car technology.

[ruSTynutz]

I'm just not comfortable with Elon using us as guinea pigs while his "so called" autopilot is perfected... 

[Shiney]

My take away from the video is that at night (or in low light areas) motorcyclists should be extra vigilant keeping an eye on the cars behind.
When cars are getting closer, make sure to move around a bit in the lane to make the bike more visible.

That being said I reckon the systems on the Tesla's are brilliant and in time they'll get even better
(Even now, I agree, they are making things safer on the whole.)

The main issue is the name "Autopilot".
People see autopilot and think they don't have to pay any attention or provide any real input to the vehicle when this is activated.

If they changed it to just Driver Assist or Safety Features it would help.

Anyway that's my thoughts (and I still think the Tesla is a cool car and has features I would love in any car, motorcyclists just need to keep an eye out for them )

Cheers
Shiney

[ruSTynutz]

The main issue is the name "Autopilot".
People see autopilot and think they don't have to pay any attention or provide any real input to the vehicle when this is activated.

If they changed it to just Driver Assist or Safety Features it would help.

Gotta agree with that 100%, Shiney!

[ruSTynutz]

Tesla Autopilot is just Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC). It used to rely on radar, and now relies on stereo vision and is proving more reliable.

I'd like to know how affective this "stereo vision" is when it gets covered in bugs and other road crud... 
I think I'd feel a bit happier if they used it in combination with radar, but I guess his doing away with the radar saves him quite a few bucks... 

[Gadget]

Subaru are relying on stereo vision for their ACC version.

Tesla only dropped the Radar because of parts shortages because of Covid.

I love how the Radar on the Golf works well in pouring rain. I set the follow distance to the maximum of 5 in those situations.

It has 'seen' cars through the mist of road spray from semi trailers.

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[Gadget]

I also would be love to see the names  changed from 'Autopilot' and 'Full Self Drive'. They are misleading until fully functional.

There is currently a court case in the USA over the name of FSD by one of the States.

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[cravenhaven]

Elon Musk said years ago that he believed that technology was sufficiently advanced to enable cars to operate within the same capabilities that humans had, ie vision NOT radar. That's why he never went down the Lidar route as others have.
The reason they removed the radar from new vehicles (and removed the activation in existing models), was to remove the conflict between the different sensors interpretation of the scenes.

[ruSTynutz]

Funnily enough I don't believe everything Elon Musk says...   

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/elon-musk-is-pathologically-full-of-sht/

https://youtu.be/4MAoDR4Lv0s

[cravenhaven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imyiPbYB24

[ruSTynutz]

Tesla appears to be turning back to radar for its vehicles

https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/07/tesla-appears-to-be-turning-back-to-radar-for-its-vehicles/

[Gadget]

Having driven over 7,700 km in my Tesla Model Y, I've noticed it doubles the 'following' distance when a motorcycle pulls in front.

e.g. if I've set it to 2 car lengths, it increases the gap to the motorcycle to 4 car lengths.

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[ruSTynutz]

In some ways I guess that's good for motorcyclists...but then you have to wonder about the accuracy of the cameras under other circumstances... 

[Diesel]

Quote from: StinkyPete on 16-09-2022, 16:40:08<blockquote>Let's not forget that this kind of technology are AIDS to driving.    What's the bloody driver doing if he's rear ended a motorcycle.  I say blame the driver and not the technology.
</blockquote>

completely the reason they are trying to eliminate the weakest link. Consider this a stepping stone to the future.

[ruSTynutz]

I'd like to know how affective this "stereo vision" is when it gets covered in bugs and other road crud... 
I think I'd feel a bit happier if they used it in combination with radar, but I guess his doing away with the radar saves him quite a few bucks... 

Taken from the TESLA Model Y Owner's Manual...



Even more reason to use radar in combination with cameras one would think...