Author Topic: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required  (Read 11279 times)

Offline saaz

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http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?130932-water-pump-abuse-or

Very bad case of no coolant change.  But it is 16 years old.
John
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Offline Biggles

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 06:18:50 PM »
It would appear a change of coolant at 36,000 kays mightn't do any harm.
High quality ethylene glycol antifreeze with aluminium appropriate corrosion protection inhibitors diluted 50/50 with distilled water is indicated.  No point in saving cents here. 
Guyra residents should consider up to 60% antifreeze (all year round).
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Offline gaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 07:32:58 PM »
great idea
Taking over one emoticon at a time >:D
 

Offline saaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 08:01:35 PM »
I use the premix Nulon Red coolant that is something like 5 year/250,000kms life, but I don't leave it in that long.  Repco and others do a similar product.  For the bike a 5 litre container will do nearly 2 changes, so cost is no issue.
John
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Online ST2UP

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 10:01:45 PM »
It would appear a change of coolant at 36,000 kays mightn't do any harm.
High quality ethylene glycol antifreeze with aluminium appropriate corrosion protection inhibitors diluted 50/50 with distilled water is indicated.  No point in saving cents here. 
Guyra residents should consider up to 60% antifreeze (all year round).

And then some......mixed my last lot using a thimble as a measuring container for the water  :nahnah
Chris    



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Offline Maxnettoz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 06:38:58 AM »
I saw a segment on Restoring Dreams regarding Evans Waterless coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/products/coolants/  The coolant is a lifetime product that is said to eliminate corrosion.

There is a link to the st-owners site regarding personal experiences with this product.  http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?122280-waterless-coolant 

"bdalameda" has used the product for 15 years and swears by it.  Others have stated it is not as good as normal coolant/water mix but then they have not qualified their expertise or indicated whether they have actually used the product and found it failed. 

Restoring Dreams is regularly on ch 64.  It is a show produced from Grand Tourer.   
Restoring Dreams
  I am confident if Grand Tourer recommends it, it is a high quality product.

Here is a test to look at. 
265 degree Insane overheat test of a snowmobile engine, Evans Waterless coolant testing.
 

Jury's out.
 

Offline Yorkie

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 09:45:00 PM »
Decided to change out all coolant hoses just for the heck of it, found a couple of issues.

1, Honda hoses are extremely tight fit, even with silicone spray applied liberally.
2, My hose to left head had been worn through considerably on top side where it touches carb manifold.
3, There is a 5mm hose from thermostat to left head, this was as hard as, I could not make an impression with fingers and thumb.
4, This is a job which should be undertaken when time is available as it is time consuming, carbs have to be removed along with most Tupperware, although with the age of 1100's I would recommend it be done sooner rather than later.
Brian 0418937173
Manager York Motor Museum

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So at what age does this "old enough to know better" kick in?
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Offline Shiney

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 10:20:44 PM »
 :think1 :think1 :think1

Has anyone tried the Evans waterless coolant yet?
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
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Offline alans1100

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 11:19:33 PM »
Decided to change out all coolant hoses just for the heck of it, found a couple of issues.

1, Honda hoses are extremely tight fit, even with silicone spray applied liberally.
2, My hose to left head had been worn through considerably on top side where it touches carb manifold.
3, There is a 5mm hose from thermostat to left head, this was as hard as, I could not make an impression with fingers and thumb.
4, This is a job which should be undertaken when time is available as it is time consuming, carbs have to be removed along with most Tupperware, although with the age of 1100's I would recommend it be done sooner rather than later.


Here's my OEM hoses after 150,000 kms from new. Changed over when I did timing belt. So I think the new hoses are good for at least another 75,000 to 100,000 kms

http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=2977.msg34375#msg34375

I used Vaseline to get the new hoses on and for the carbs to slip back in too. I found the top radiator hose to thermostat housing the most difficult to get on.
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

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Offline Gavo

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 11:21:34 PM »
Id like to if i dont have to ever change it again

Thats a good thing :thumb

Only one distributor in WA no web find out tommorow with dog and bone


Correction seems to be three distributors
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 12:19:40 AM by Gavo »
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Offline Shiney

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 12:05:21 AM »
Good on ya Gavo :thumbsup :-++
I look forward to seeing what you find out :popcorn
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
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Offline Malcolm6112

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 10:36:06 AM »
This will help out.

http://www.evanscoolants.com.au/stockists#28

As with most things, a heap in the east and one in the west.

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Malcolm
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Offline Totgas

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 11:08:44 AM »
What type of coolant do Honda recommend?
I was using (in my toyota) ethylene glycol and was told by my mechanic never to use it again. He insisted Toyota only recommend Red coolant - which apparently has a totally different active ingredient.
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Offline alans1100

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 11:53:16 AM »
What type of coolant do Honda recommend?
I was using (in my toyota) ethylene glycol and was told by my mechanic never to use it again. He insisted Toyota only recommend Red coolant - which apparently has a totally different active ingredient.
A.

Nulon Red Long Life Anti-Freeze/Anti-Boil Concentrate is what I used and meets/exceeds Hondas coolant requirements.
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

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Offline saaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 03:42:47 PM »
The colour does not always tell you what a coolant is, but in most cases it is a guide.

http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Cooling_Systems/

John
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Offline Bluey

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 05:42:54 PM »
Do I read this right - people are using Nulon Red Long life coolant in their ST1100's?

I'm due for a change and see (from my manual) that it calls for 50% ethylene Glycol - The Nulon site doesn't mention this. I like the idea of "long life".

I guess I just need a little reassurance....
'99 ST1100
 

Offline saaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 06:08:49 PM »
Yes, have done for years (also use it in all the cars) The glycol content of the pre mixed coolant is 520 grams/litre, which is a pretty standard level. Repco have their own brand which is the same, and there are others around.  The concentrated coolant needs to be a 50/50 mix with purified water to get the same glycol level.
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
Ozstoc, STOC #7239, Farrider #461 Ulysses #061681, IBA #59143 and some others
 

Offline alans1100

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 06:58:45 PM »
Do I read this right - people are using Nulon Red Long life coolant in their ST1100's?

I'm due for a change and see (from my manual) that it calls for 50% ethylene Glycol - The Nulon site doesn't mention this. I like the idea of "long life".

I guess I just need a little reassurance....

It's not so much about the brand but rather the type of coolant.

Generally speaking most early car based coolants (used to be tap water once) used to have all that abrasive stuff in the coolant to help keep rust etc. under control. In the more modern alloy engines that stuff can cause a lot of harm and some newer coolants contained silicates.

On a motorcycle engine things like water pump seals might get damaged and need replacing so a silicate free coolant is what were after.

This is more than likely the same reason your Toyota needs this type of coolant as well.
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

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Offline Totgas

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2013, 07:15:03 PM »
I acknowledge hardworking Australians no matter who they are or where they come from. All those who have contributed to this wonderful country deserve an equal share of gratitude for their contributions. To single any group of individuals out for special homage only denigrates the rest of us.
 

Offline saaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2013, 08:00:05 PM »
I did find a good explanation a few years ago, but did not save it.  The earlier coolants had to deal with cooling systems without overflow bottles, so air got in the system. Also engines were iron, with copper radiators using solder, so additives were needed to deal with them.  Just make sure not to get one of those cheap coolants that don't protect against overheating or freezing

  A Gates tech bulletin puts it simply:

• Inorganic additives such as silicates and phosphates are used to plate cooling system
surfaces. These act as a barrier to protect against corrosion but deplete over time.
• Organic additives chemically react with metal surfaces when needed for protection.
They offer longer protection but are less compatible.
• Each vehicle manufacturer uses a coolant based on the cooling system component
materials that come in contact with the coolant. These components include
the water pump, radiator, heater core, engine block, hoses, and seals.
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
Ozstoc, STOC #7239, Farrider #461 Ulysses #061681, IBA #59143 and some others
 

Offline Bluey

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 09:54:40 PM »
Found this.....

http://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm

ie What Alan said....
A.


Thanks - I'm a bit wiser now. The current green is most likely a silicate free coolant, which would (again, most likely) be compatible with the Nulon red LL. To be sure, flush well with distilled water before using the Red.

The last change was just before I bought the bike, by a dealer, so one would have to assume the correct coolant would have been used. Like the Irish, flush twice, to be sure, to be sure.

I have no reason to suspect there are any cooling problems, this is just part of a regular service.

Thanks again!
'99 ST1100
 

Offline saaz

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2013, 09:23:40 AM »
A lot of the green coolants now say there have minimal silicates in them so might be safe, but as they cost the same no point in using them.  No so good for older cars though.
John
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1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
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Offline Gavo

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2014, 06:55:59 PM »
The Malaga distributor only stocks the Heavy duty $81 plus gst

The prep ffuid $70 plus gst

Will wait for reply in reguards to use in my application

This was the reply

Hi Rob

Have checked with Melbourne and the High Performance will be fine in motorcycles.

We have both the High Performance and the Prep Fluid in stock, $81.00+GST and $70.00+GST respectively.


with bla bla bla let me know if you want to order
Rob
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Offline STeveo

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2015, 04:04:06 PM »
Have found an Aussi made waterless coolant, anybody have an opinion?

http://liquidintelligence115.com.au/
 

Offline Piet

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Re: What might happen if you don't change the coolant when required
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2015, 04:43:01 PM »
I am an Evans coolant user.  I think its great.  I did my research, I checked the info re increased boiling point.  I also looked into the coolants efficiency to transfer heat from the jacket into the water, about 5% less effective than water if memory serves.  I also found out, that as water gets close to boiling and the bubbles start to form, the bubbles on the jacket surface loose around 95% of the effeciency to transfer the heat away.  So its a substantial loss of cooling, I reason that 95% loss of performance is a little higher than acceptable.  Five % with Glycol is not dangerous and just means my water pump and thermostat just need to let the flow increase slightly so that the radiator can cool. 
I had a thermstat fail shut once and she got extremely hot under the covers while the radiator was cold. So hot I was actually scared I had cooked her.  No boiling mind you, no bubling no hot spots, no vapour locks collapsing, where super hot surfaces might see comparitively colder water cause thermal shock to engine surfaces.  I replaced the thermostat overnight.  Dropped the engine oil that would have been very hot and perhaps degraded by extreme temp, along with a new filter.  Good as gold.
I think it a great product that is well worth the effort.   I am very comfortable with knowing corrosion is never going to be a problem and I have a coolant that does not boil easily and gives me a much higher margin of saftey even when things have gone wrong.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 09:25:45 PM by Piet »
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