Clutch Salve Cylinder Replacement

[HunterTodd]

Hi All,k

I have posted before that I appear to have a leaking clutch slave cylinder (only suspected not confirmed yet.)

The dire predictions of needing to remove the engine almost had me trading the bike in on the weekend but I decided to chill a bit and look at the problem rationally.

I am hoping some of you mechanically inclined guys will critique my logic and offer any  ideas. Unfortunately I am not in the position to pay to have the clutch fixed so I either fix it myself or I don't ride. Simple as that.

Removal of the master cylinder revealed it to be nearly empty with a sickly looking orange crud in the bottom.    (Jeez I hate it when previous owners skimp on maintenance to save a buck.)

 Whatever happened occurred over a 1000 km ride. The fluid was above the line when I left. I thought what the hell I am going to change the fluid straight after the ride anyway at 36000 km in line with the service schedule  so it will be alright.  Famous last words.  I normally don't ride in traffic but it included about two hours stop start traffic in Sydney which i think is what did the clutch in.

I removed the plastics and traced the hydraulic line as best I could and there are no apparent leaks there.

I got underneath the bike.  There was a black oil looking stuff  covering a lot of the back of the engine and the fuel dump hoses but not the slave cylinder itself. Interestingly it extended forward under the sump which could mean it came from another source.

I couldn't see the banjo connections but could see the three cover bolts from different angles. I would be confident I could get a spanner or socket on each of them.

The gear shift linkage passes directly behind the cover and would need to be removed to get access to the cover. 

I haven't measured the distance from the cylinder to the swingarm but I will scale what I can see of the withdrawn cylinder in the manual to confirm if there is enough clearance when the shift linkage is removed. Somewhere in there is the clutch push rod which I will have to take into account but I should be able to scale that from the pictures I have as well.

Other sites have suggested not to remove the oil filter and oil cooler for some reason. But I cannot see why. It would dramatically improve access to the slave cylinder and once the filter is removed there is only one central bolt  and a couple of hoses to remove to get the oil cooler out.  Is there something about the oil cooler I am missing. It doesn't seem to be a difficult task. 

I also noticed that access from the side would be gained it the kick stand was removed. I can't be sure but I think with the kick stand and the oil filter/cooler gone you would have complete access to the slave cylinder.

Studying the manual I am thinking they suggest to remove the engine because it would be impossible to remove the clutch push rod as the swingarm blocks it.

I think this might be the issue. I am sure I can remove the push rod oil seal with the rod in place. But can you get the new seal back in when the rod is still there. I am guessing that the correct procedure would be to pull the rod and examine it for wear. Remove and replace the seal and then push the rod back in through the new seal so the lip sits correctly.

 Any opinions.

This weekend I am going to rebuild the master cylinder and flush the lines. I am hoping when I get pressure I will be able to see if the leak is in the banjo or the cylinder.
I am praying a simple tighten of the banjo will do the trick.

Thanks guys.

[Brock]

I dont have the 1300, so I may be wrong in this assumption. If you can manage to remove the slave cylinder, then it should be easy to remove the push rod as its a long thin rod..

Give the area a good soak in degreaser, and clean it up spotless. Its much nicer working on clean stuff.

[HunterTodd]

Had one of those arrrrgh! moments today.

The parts for the clutch finally arrived and I started on the list of things to get the ST (who shall forever be known as STrumpet) back on the road.

Coolant flush went to plan as did the clutch master cylinder rebuild and line flush. Then I turned my attention to the slave cylinder.

Getting it off was a bit of a struggle but I have had worse.

However being at the bottom of the system it is the repository for all the crud and junk. A brown gel like mixture filled the cylinder and the cavity between the cylinder and the crankcase.  I couldn't detect any engine oil in the mix so I have my fingers crossed that the crankcase seal is in tact.

 I am gobsmacked that the clutch  managed to work for the 6000 kays I have had the bike with that crap in the system.

My arggh moment came when I cleaned the cylinder.  It is too pitted to be used. So god knows how long I will have to wait for the replacement and how much it will cost.

The bike had the 18000 kay service at a motorcycle dealer in Canberra so it should have had a fluid change. Clearly it hasn't and I cursed either the owner who told the mechanic to skip the fluid change or more likely the mechanic who didn't do it but charged for it to hell and back as I cleaned the crap out of the cavity in the crankcase and scraped the gasket off.  In my book it is a dog act to sell a bike with a complete history and not have that done.

Tips for the unwary punters

1) Change your fluids or have them changed according to the schedule. The clutch would take less than fifteen minutes. The brakes are more time consuming but not overly difficult. I reckon it is a four to five hour job for the average bloke. The consequences of not doing it are way more of a hassle.

2) If you have to change your slave cylinder it can be done without taking the engine out unlike what they tell you in the manual. (well I am yet to put it back on but I had a trial fit)  It would be a different thing maybe if the crankcase seal was buggered but I am assuming mine is ok. It is not an easy job. I would rate it a 7 out of 10 on the scale of mongrel jobs.

3) If you decide to do the slave cylinder buy the whole thing not just a kit. It would be odds on the cylinder is RS anyway and it saves you the wait. Like I am going to have to do.

4) If you have a vacuum bleeder that wont seal on the bleed nipple, buy one of those clips like they use on fuel lines. I did and it worked a treat for me. Have a ten dollar Supa Cheap one man bleeder as well for a standby. Between the both of them I got the job done.

5) If you decide not to flush your hydraulic systems don't sell your bike to some other unsuspecting punter telling them it has a full service history or worse show them log books verifying the history because then you would be a prick.

In a secondary arrrgh moment I think I noticed a slightly weep around the boot on the brake master cylinder. Looks like I might have to rebuild that.

[saaz]

Good advice there    Giving the brakes and clutch an annual flush will save more pain and $$$ down the track.

[HunterTodd]

Houston,  we have a clutch!!!!!! 

At last, after being off the road since May 5th, the STrumpet finally has a new clutch.

Picked the new slave cylinder up from the post office this morning and fitted it this afternoon.  All I have to do is put the plastic back on, fill the engine with oil and then I can go for a ride!!

In addition to my earlier tips I have one more.

Don't waste your twenty cents ringing a Honda dealer in Australia  for anything other than the most basic part. The stock of parts held by Honda Australia for an ST1300 would fit in your back pocket, even with a rich blokes wallet in it.

When you ask how long the parts will take to get here they just tell you the next shipment date from Japan.  They can't even tell you if it is air or sea. Depends on the size of the shipment you see.

I bought my bits from Partzilla in America. Took ten days to get here and even though the freight was expensive it was still cheaper than buying them here.

They have a complete parts manual on line. All you do is click on the part and away you go. 

There is much bleating among retailers about people supporting local businesses in preference to buying offshore. I wanted to support Honda Australia but quickly found out they didn't deserve it.

 BTW I have a slave cylinder kit if anyone is interested $30 plus postage

[edwardgoodwin]

Many Thanks Hunter for the grand tour of the slave cylinder issue.I am just about to "assault " mine & your write up will be invaluable to me.Ed.(Essex,England).

[alans1100]

You should be ok with most spares for your 1300. Only parts you might not get are related to colour as they only supply what was sold in the US.

The other option is then David Silver Spares  http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/ if your bike is 10 years or older but then some parts are common to all models though you need to email them for a postage quote. 

[edwardgoodwin]

Thanks Alan.I am trying all the simple/obvious fixes first & then escalate on to removing the slave cylinder if I have to.Use DS regularly over here & they are always reliable.Regards,Ed.

[alans1100]

I missed noticing that you were in the UK.

When I did the timing belt and other items for my 1100 I used a US dealer to get all the parts from which saved me about half (including postage)the Australian cost.

 

[edwardgoodwin]

That's bang on! I used the us Partzilla crew inUS  to get a clutch master cylinder kit & it was still cheaper than UK including  the shipping.Ed.