Oils, let the debate begin.

[rocketeer]

Hi guys,

I've opened this thread to start the obvious conversation.  To give you some background, for the last 8 years I've both researched, and been formally trained in lubrication- including physical make up, practical application including analysis and fault finding.  I work with a Brisbane based oil company who retail their own products to a standard quite simply far higher than most available on the Australian market.  Their name is PM Lubricants.  There is only one other I am aware of that consistently comes close.  I am a draftsman first and foremost, but hoping to work with this company more as time goes on.

I'm more than happy for you guys to ask questions in here, the aim of the game here is to educate.  There is so much mis-education on the subject, I am hoping to help clear some of it up.  Some of what I say will go against accepted logic, but for good reason.  If you ask something I am not sure about, I will happily say so and if I can find the answer for you.  I am happy to cover topics from lubrication basics, terminologies and what is available, to filtration, and fault finding. 

As I get more time, I'll throw in as much information as I can,  hopefully not boring anyone but for those interested, it should hopefully clear up some things.  For those not interested, asking 'what is best'- I will answer honestly, but it's almost always going to be the same brand, the specific product is what will change.

So- here goes.

Lesson 1.  (sorry couldn't help myself).

Synthetics vs minerals.  Very quickly, both have their place.  Which is better?  That comes down to a bunch of questions, including what specifically is the oil's intended purpose.  At this point in time, against popular belief, we are able to create a far better performing mineral based oil than any synthetic.  The technology just hasn't caught up yet.  How do I know?  Years of oil analysis, customer comments, and field research has proven time and time again that phrase that I like to use- "It isn't the base that defines quality, rather the quality of the base and additives, and the correct additives that defines an oil's quality".  Just because it is 'synthetic', doesn't mean it's better.

Motorcycle gearboxes are quite the opposite to car and truck boxes when it comes to viscosities.  In a car, changing to a lighter viscosity oil will improve shifting (Redline shockproof is the best I know of for removing notchy gearchange).  In a bike however, higher viscosity oils and higher load carrying ability- which all cushion against the shock of gearchange will reduce notchiness.

Notice on some oils, in high heat how gearchanges start to get notchy after say 3,000 or 3,500 km?  That is an indication the oil is breaking down.  I have put late model japanese sportsbikes, mostly Yamaha 1000's onto 25w60 to cure gearchange issues, after going through gradually increasing viscosity.

This ties into how I specify viscosities- if there is an issue like notchy gearchange, I will likely increase viscosity to help smooth that out.

[rocketeer]

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28761/storing-grease-to-avoid-bleed-separation-

[Wal]

 Hi Rocketeer.     

                                     


Nice rightup i agree with you on the synthetic oils the only times i have had troubles with engines has been with synthetic oil, with a number of years racing dirt bikes. In two strokes it allows rust to form in bottom end then failer,in four strokes more ring wear more oil consumtion.
For a number of years I have run Caltex Delo 400 in small petrol engines ( I buy it in 205s to run in trucks and machinery) and have not had any problems with them eg Honda fire fighters.
What are your thoughts on using Delo in St 1300 honda or KTM 530,would it affect clutch , engine or gear box performance.

Regards
Wal





                                                                                                       

[Brock]

Good write up, and an interesting link to greases.

Does you Mob produce an oil suitable for the STs, and if so where can it be sourced? If the price is reasonable then I would be prepared to give it a go,

On filtering, are the Repco/Ryco filters good enough, or are the Honda ones better (but reaal expensive)

[rocketeer]

Hi guys, thanks for that.

Wal- what I've found isn't quite the same as you explain when dealing with synthetics- although run methanol with synthetic I've noticed some interesting things.  It's more to do with load carrying ability, or the ability of the oil to keep metal parts separated under heat and load- in most circumstances that load carrying ability is higher in a mineral base particulary 4 stroke engine, gear and diff oils.  Again it comes down to building the oils properly, as opposed to mineral or synthetic base.  In some circumstances, depending on a machine's additive specific requirements from a manufacturer, a synthetic may have an advantage- as in some auto transmissions.
Delo is a general duty commercial quality oil.  It shouldn't adversely affect wet clutch, gear or engine to a great extent, unless you are talking long term.  It's a product built to a retail pricepoint, as such additive packs are generally sacrificed to maintain retail shelf price.  Hence why when I walk into a workshop running similar products I make what seem to be outrageous claims- from fuel economy benefits, to extended oil drains, to reduced temperatures and wear rates.  What I am saying is yes you can run it, I personally wouldn't but if it's cheap and available...

Brock- yes we do, to specify an oil for a bike I need several things- make, model, condition (knocks, rattles, oil burn, notchy gears etc) and intended use (racebike, everyday rider, long distance rider).  Being in WA makes it harder to get, though I am happy to work something out with transport costs to get it to you.  I have plans of making it more accessable around Australia, but that is at least a year off.

Filter wise- Ryco's are probably as efficient as the Honda filters. They are both a cellulose filter medium- imagine a piece of unrefined paper and the fibres randomly forming holes for the oil to pass through.  Synthetic media filters, K&N is the most popular and reasonably priced, are far more efficient filters, removing more of the smaller particles.  Better again on paper is the Amsoil filters- but they are harder to get, and cost more- as much as $35 per unit.   If I end up sending you oil, I can organise a filter for you if it makes life easier.  Price of PM Lubricants is around $12 per litre- a touch under $65 for 5 litres.  We also cater for bikes with separate gearboxes and oil filled final drives with great results.


What particle size causes the most damage in an everyday engine? 

Between 2 and 10 micron- small enough to pass through most spin on filters, large enough to get into bearing spaces- grinding against the surfaces.  Bikes are far harder to remove this size particle, whereas bypass filters, centrifical filters and depth filters can be fitted to remove these particles easily.  Even passenger vehicles with good filtration fitted can go for 100,000km between oil changes!

[alans1100]

Hi,

I used to work for a petrol reseller and was amazed that joe or mary bloggs had no idea of what oil to put in their car/bike. Most had not even noticed that grade on the oil filler cap or looked in the owner book. The oils we had on hand would have been suitable for most and of course the other thing to consider is "Any oil is better than no oil".

Bikes on the hand was a little different, some wanted mineral, some wanted synthetic, some believed that once you went synthetic you couldnt go back to mineral, some wanted two stroke, some four.

For me, it's not a problem. I buy what's on special at the time I need it. All the oil I use meets or exceeds Honda recomondation for my 1100, even poor old black and gold stuff (used a few times). Not in order but I've had Mobil XHP (just found out it's for diesels), Valvoline XLD, Shell Advance 4T(a couple of times) and now it as Shell Helix Ultra because I sold the car the oil was going into. With all the talk about diesel oil on here so I 'll try that on my next oil change.

Oil and filter normally get changed every 12000kms (only missed once), I have not yet needed to add oil between changes. Currently 139500kms on bike.

What I find amusing is the marine/motorcycle two stoke thing these days. I seem to remember the old two stoke pump in some garages, select your mix ratio and pumped it in. Didn't matter if it was a boat a bike or a lawn mower, it was all the same. That was before separate oil tanks on two stroke bikes.
   
I don't have a problem with car gear boxes as my last five have been auto's, the last two being Fords which have transmissions that the owner can't check. That reminds me, I should do an oil change on the Territory, it's been in over 30,000kms. Wonder where the filter is located on the motor?

[rendog]

Hey rocketeer,

I run Rimula X in a 2002 CBR1100XX & change it every 5,000km's.
The seals, plugs, clutch & gearbox are all in great condition.

I also have a 2003 ST1300 with 80,000 km's on it.
I live in North Qld, were it is hot, or hot & wet. Joh Bjelke-Petersen abolished winter many years ago 
I have been running Motul 5100 15W50, in the belief that a thicker oil will compensate for the heat.
The recommended change interval for this oil is 10,000km, so I just put another filter on at 5,000km.
Some others argue that a hotter engine requires a thinner oil, not a thicker oil, as the engine clearances decrease.
After the last plug change I noticed black carbon build up on top of the pistons.
I have also had to replace two external seals, which were weeping.

So questions arising are:
Should I switch to a thinner oil up here in the tropics?
Should I change to a mineral based oil so it will burn off easier in the combustion chamber?
Should I just run diesel oils in both bikes & change them at 5,000km's?
Will my fellow bikers think I'm really cool & trendy if I run oil based on coconut juice? (There's alot of them up here)
Thanks for taking the time to post on the OzSTOC forum. 

[Brock]

Rendog,

If your bike has a diesel engine, then you can run it on Coconut oil

[Dan]

Hey rocketeer,

While I don't have much time for the typical oil thread where no-one knows anything, this could be interesting.  I'm always keen to learn something new!

At the moment, my belief is that engine failure will not be the thing that puts my bike off the road.  The ST11's seem to run forever, I'm confident that it'll run for far longer than I will need it to regardless of what oil I put in.  Of course I am willing to be educated!

My last bike was a 1998 CBR900RR.   I bought it with under 9,000 miles on the clock and sold it with about 52,000.  I used cheap motorcycle oil from Hein Gericke for all of those miles - it used to cost me £20 for a filter and 4 litres of 10w40 semi-pathetic oil.  The bike was running beautifully when I sold it.  So at the moment I am not convinced that there are benefits to expensive oils - again I am prepared to be educated!

Since then, I've done a bit of reading on oil, here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

In a nutshell, and from what I can remember, the author suggests the following: (this might be wrong as it was a while since I read this!)

- 'thinner' oils are better as they take less time to reach the correct viscosity for lubrication.
- 'thinner' oils are best thought of as less thick when cold, rather than thinner at operating temperature.
- since most engine wear occurs at start-up, it makes sense to use a 'thinner' oil to reduce the time it takes to reach optimum temperature.

This reading hasn't changed my choice of oil dramatically.  I was going to use the Penrite 15w-50 diesel oil, instead I went for the 5w-40 motor oil.  They are only $5 different in price, so I thought I'd try the one which, based on my reading, was the better grade.  The 5w-40 is also listed as both car and bike use by Penrite.

I found it interesting that perhaps the higher viscosity oil could be better for the gearbox on a motorcycle.  So far, I've not found the gearchange to be compromised, but perhaps I'll try the diesel oil next time to compare.

I'd be interested in any comments....!!

[rocketeer]

Hi guys thanks for the interest in this thread.  I apologize if I am slow to reply, I prefer to answer as best as I can, sometimes it's easier to wait until I have the time to sit down and go through a response.

Alans 1100, that's great it works for you, I really don't want to get into "you MUST use the best of the best" if you have a system that just works.  The TCW3 rating for marine and snow vehicles was brought into effect to reduce environmental impact from old, heavily oiled 2 strokers. Nowadays some 2 strokes have advanced considerably, and intended use comes into effect when choosing which oil to use.  Thankfully, 2 stroke oils have caught up as well, for example do one which caters for the most highly strung bike or surf race boat, to garden equipment.  It's only the ratio that changes- some racebikes have (very carefully) pushed out past 250:1 successfully. As far as the autos on the fords- they are prone to overheating, by 60,000 k's the oil is usually black.  The level is checked by a bolt on the side of the box.  I tell everyone that it is well worthwhile looking at trans coolers if driven hard, towing, or in constant hot climate, or long idling (as in taxis) or if you intend on keeping the vehicle past say 200,000km.  I've just seen so very many failures.  My BA XR8 copped the biggest PWR cooler and a full flush onto PM fluid before I even took posession of it- because I do expect a lot from it.

Rendog
one of the things we specify for is exactly what you are talking about- ambient temperature. If we are specifying oil for constant high temperatures, we will specify a higher viscosity.  Yes, metal grows with heat.  But oil thins more than metal grows as heat increases, hence why a lot of vehicles we have running in Mt Isa for example are 25w60- our test results show taking into account ambient temperature can positively affect wear rates.  Good work by the way changing the filter half way, that practice has it's obvious advantages in renewing filtration, but also replacing half a litre or so which tends to top up additive packs in an oil if it is not completely worn, but showing some age.
Your carbon on piston crowns.  Firstly, take a look athttp://www.quickfds.com/out/16134-33784-23690-013962.pdf, being the MSDS for the Motul oil you are running.  It's not a synthetic, as shown by the breakdown of components- it's solvent and hydrotreated mineral oil for the most part, with some synthetic additives.  So it's not so much whether the oil is a synthetic.  I have noticed highly strung engines which are ridden for performance and always run on BP Ultimate tend to not have these deposits.  The most successful way I have found in reducing these in everyday vehicles is by using PM800 fuel system conditioner- added at 1:1000 ratio, it cleans everything from the fuel tank through injectors and carbs, valves, piston crowns and to the exhaust. I don't know of the effectiveness of other additives, other than to say I know a few that are quite nasty chemicals- mostly the ones with a warning similar to "do not use more than 3 times in a service period". 

Des- I have read a good part of that article.  I have a fairly detailed response coming for you, if you read what I have written already you will have an idea where I am going.  I will include some interesting analysis to back some of my response, because even though in a large part I agree with the article (especially how he explains viscosity in layman's terms) there are some assumptions made, based on current popular thinking.  I'll be back soon, I've spent the day looking after a couple of preteens on dirtbikes and sleep is calling me.

Brad

[rocketeer]

Rendog I was just thinking I should mention I have no issue with the viscosity you have gone with, infact it wouldn't be unusual at all to go for 20w50 in your machine, and push it out much further between services, providing oil testing was done.

Did you know?

If you overheat an engine, the oil is the first casualty before any abnormal wear occurs.  Mineral and synthetic oils are designed to operate within a heat range.  Synthetics typically handle higher heat, though a mineral based oil which is built properly will handle more heat than the average engine experiences, even with cooling system failiure.  One of the additives of Mineral oils is long chain polymers, which expand when heated like a coil spring, allowing for what we now call multi grade oils.  Overheating these polymers has an effect similar to overstretching a spring- except these tend to collapse, effectively dropping the oil's ability to maintain film strength under heat and load.  Once this occurs, internal forces push metal parts together to contact, which creates more heat, wear particles which grind at polished surfaces, and the cycle begins which ultimately leads to mechanical failure.  Building an oil, particularly a mineral based oil which can not only handle this high heat but also high loads at the same time isn't difficult, but it does add cost to the manufacturing process.  Hence why on most oils available, if you lose your cooling system, you damage your engine.  I personally know of more than a handful of engines which have lost cooling, 2 were in race conditions, both of which no visible damage could be found on teardown inspection.  One was a 2008 GSXR1000, one was a V8 ski boat, which still holds several titles in men's and women's skiing.  It was noted the engine got so hot, that the enamel was blistering after the event from a waterpump failure.

 If the oil handles the heat, the engine will not suffer.

[Poppy Dave]

G'day Rocketeer,

Just a quick question. I have a 1300 and at the 24,000 service I decided to try the diesel oil to see what happened (I changed the filter also). Anyway, I've now done 29,000 and I've noticed that the oil in the viewing window looks a lot dirtier that the previous oils. They say that diesel oils have more detergents in them so do you thing this could be the reason?

I have noticed no change in the engine or gearbox since putting the diesel in so I presume it only makes a difference with engines that have done higher k's. I intend to go back to normal oil at the next service as at this time I can't see any benefit in sticking with the diesel................ unless you reckon otherwise.

Words of wisdom please.

Take care,

Dave R                                                         

[rocketeer]

Des-

After reading a few more pages, I have some serious issues with this article. 

I don't know anything about the author, but I can tell you what he doesn't do for a living.  He doesn't test oil, he doesn't specify oil for machinery nor responsible for machine reliability, he's had some basic education in the field, and done a lot of reading.  The problem when you're reading my response is going to be who do you believe- the author of an article published on a website designed for oil nuts, or someone you haven't met before going against both the article, and accepted logic.

I'm not sure how this will go, but I'm going to attach a few things to support my argument.  It looks like I will reply in several parts, and there may be some time between replies.   Bear with me.

[Dan]

Des-

After reading a few more pages, I have some serious issues with this article. 

I don't know anything about the author, but I can tell you what he doesn't do for a living.  He doesn't test oil, he doesn't specify oil for machinery nor responsible for machine reliability, he's had some basic education in the field, and done a lot of reading.  The problem when you're reading my response is going to be who do you believe- the author of an article published on a website designed for oil nuts, or someone you haven't met before going against both the article, and accepted logic.

I'm not sure how this will go, but I'm going to attach a few things to support my argument.  It looks like I will reply in several parts, and there may be some time between replies.   Bear with me.

OK mate, I'll look forward to your response, thanks for taking the time to do so as well 

[saaz]

Des, I have read many threads over on the oil site.  Dr Haas has polarising opinions, and he is a doctor by trade not an engineer.  Be careful about what many say over there, as most would use a 0w0 oil if it was available!  The motorcycle section has a bit more sense, as they don't automatically accept that thinner is better or that synthetic oils are necessarily better than mineral oils.  Personally I would prefer a good mineral oil with a sound additive pack rather than an average synthetic.  There is an ST11 on there that has posted oil tests over a period of time.  Pretty well all oils used survived Honda's change interval with some life left.  I think the trouble with oils is the marketers get hold and confuse everyone.  There was a GM engineer on there for a while before he annoyed too many of the members as he actually developed and tested engines for a living, so cut through all the opinion which to me is akin to alien conspiracy theories! (I can copy these files to anyone who is intereted )  I learnt enough of what I considered to be more fact based information to get some idea of what matters and what matters less.

I am sure like many here I had bikes where 2500km oil chnages with 5000km oil filter chnages was considered risky, and the oils at the time barely made even that change distance due to being air cooled with inadequate oil cooling.  Today oil is probably the least concern within certain reasonable limits (ie don't usde those fuel economy oils!!)

[Dan]

Des, I have read many threads over on the oil site.  Dr Haas has polarising opinions, and he is a doctor by trade not an engineer.  Be careful about what many say over there, as most would use a 0w0 oil if it was available!  The motorcycle section has a bit more sense, as they don't automatically accept that thinner is better or that synthetic oils are necessarily better than mineral oils.  Personally I would prefer a good mineral oil with a sound additive pack rather than an average synthetic.  There is an ST11 on there that has posted oil tests over a period of time.  Pretty well all oils used survived Honda's change interval with some life left.  I think the trouble with oils is the marketers get hold and confuse everyone.  There was a GM engineer on there for a while before he annoyed too many of the members as he actually developed and tested engines for a living, so cut through all the opinion which to me is akin to alien conspiracy theories! (I can copy these files to anyone who is intereted )  I learnt enough of what I considered to be more fact based information to get some idea of what matters and what matters less.

I am sure like many here I had bikes where 2500km oil chnages with 5000km oil filter chnages was considered risky, and the oils at the time barely made even that change distance due to being air cooled with inadequate oil cooling.  Today oil is probably the least concern within certain reasonable limits (ie don't usde those fuel economy oils!!)

I did see that the fella who wrote the article was a doctor!  That's how he can afford those Ferraris and Lambo's I guess. 

Yeah I suppose if you followed that article to the letter, then 0w0 might sound like a great idea! 

I agree that changing the oil/filter at the specified intervals is the most important thing, and that the oil itself isn't so important - hence my use of dirt cheap motorcycle oil in my last bike.  I got interested in this when I moved to Oz as we don't have Hein Gericke here selling us oil and a filter for $30!  There's no way I'm paying what they want in the bike shop for oil, hence I thought I should look in to what I could get from the car parts shop.

I'd like to learn a bit more though, so I will be interested in rocketeer's posts in this thread. 

[Brock]

Generaly speaking, In Oz the temps are highish, so we dont need the low winter grade oil, but something a bit heavier to handle constant high heat (35C again today)

[rocketeer]

Des, Part 3

This is an oil analysis on my own bike a few years ago.  Test 1 was on Motul 10w40.  Test 2 and 3 were on PM Lubricants PM412, 15w40

There's several things I will point out. 

This oil is a high ZDDP oil.  zinc dithiophosphate is one of the best anti wear additives- it gives the oil film strength, or load carrying ability, and also allows for boundary lubrication, when oil is not under pressure allowing for hydrodynamic lubrication.  This is what reduces startup wear, as the article suggested somewhere around 90% of all wear occurs on startup.  Unless something is present to reduce friction until the oil is under full pressure.

To explain this analysis, the Motul was in the bike for 5500km.  I intended for 6,000 km but I just couldn't leave it in any longer- the bike felt rough, gearchanges extremely notchy, I couldn't wait to get it out.  PM412 was put in, the first test on PM (second test on this sheet) was done at 5868km, then left in the bike for a further 6571 km.  In total, 12,436km on this oil at the time of the test, in a very highly strung engine which did multiple track days, and many twisty rides.

Bearing in mind, on the first sumpful on a new oil, an analysis will pick up wear materials from the last sump.  Best practice is to run analysis on the second sump, as it has had the chance to clean out most wear materials.  The same applies the other way- if you go from a good oil to a poor quality, the first sump will show good results, the second sump will give the real picture of what is going on internally.  Evidenced by the high values in the second test, but comparatively low numbers in the third.

Wear rates are best worked out by taking the particle count number (say  40 parts per million of Iron) and dividing it by how many thousand kilometres.  So in the case of iron in 12, 436km, that works out around 3 parts per million of iron per 1000km. 

What this test shows is that when you work out parts per million, even with the wear metals present from the motul oil, PM has better than halved wear rates.  This is the sort of testing employed by mining to watch wear rates in million dollar machinery, because although testing methods and sampling must be accurate, this shows how an engine is wearing, and whether to predict mechanical failure.  (if you're interested, take a look at the sample and see if you can figure out what was happening to the engine that could have caused early mechanical failure).

[rocketeer]

Des, Part 4

This part of an old newsletter circulated by PM Lubricants a while ago, I have footage of the actual race.  Garry Brabham's indy car ran PM Racing 50, at 25w60- I have no hesitation in saying literally the toughest oil available.  At the time Mobil 1 was being advertised as "the worlds finest".  The team's sister car ran on Mobil 1 (the race formula, not what was available to the public at the time).  A similar analysis was undertaken, and the wear rates published, as well as transaxle temperatures. 

Even against the highest performing synthetic at the time, Racing 50, a full Mineral based oil, outperformed by reducing friction- which is evidenced by reduced wear rates, and reduced temperatures.   

So what we have seen so far is 2 high zinc (ZDDP) oils outperforming 2 oils sold as synthetics (mobil 1 was an actual synthetic, Motul 5100 is sold as a synthetic, but as evidenced by their MSDS it is actually a mineral oil). 

[rocketeer]

Des, Part 5

http://www.formula3.com.au/series.asp

Above, is a link to the Formula 3 website. 

Chris Gilmour is reigning Australian champion from last year.  We've looked after both him and his brother Matthew through their racing- from Karts, to drifting, bike racing, and drags.  Chris ran the same mineral based oil until last year, his transaxle is still mineral oil, as available to the public, and the same engine oil I ran in my bike.  Race oils can't look after road going vehicles?

Last year and this year, Chris is running a full synthetic now because of the control engine, a 10w40, which is required by Mercedes to run synthetic.  Actually no, Mercedes require the drivers to run mobil 1, but since he is changing every 3 or 4 races and still doubling engine life over the expected engine life, mercedes have allowed chris to run this "unknown" oil.  We have several older cars still running the mineral oil.

[saaz]

Generaly speaking, In Oz the temps are highish, so we dont need the low winter grade oil, but something a bit heavier to handle constant high heat (35C again today)

I am in the not so generally down to -10c during winter when you can still think about riding as it can get to at least 5c nearby or mid 20s down the coast.

I have heard of PM lubricants before as someone in the heavy machiney industry recommended them, and their toys are far more expensive if they break!  Everything I have come across backs up the point that the additive pack is what you look at, not whether it is any particular type as not all 'synthetics' are actually synthetic.  One of the reasons diesel oils can work well is that they can/may additives that you are not supposed to use in road going vehicles due to the potential for poisioning the catalytic converter.

I would be interested in whether there are new additives replacing ZDDP that are able to be used for petrol oils complying with oil standards for catalytiv equipped vehicles, but still deliver on wear reduction/protection.

[rocketeer]

Des, Part 6


Viscosity.

Viscosity is measured in centistokes, as mentioned in the article.  Viscosity grades are a range, rather than a finite number, also as mentioned.   A 0w50 is within the same viscosity range at 100°c as a 20w50, as mentioned.

Now this is where it gets a little difficult to grasp, because this almost goes against the above logic.

The first number is an indicator of the base oil.  Pour point depressants and viscosity improvers are added to to the base (mineral) oil, along with a total of around 8 additives to produce an effective multigrade oil. 

So if I get this wording correctly:

"It is possible to produce a higher film strength in a higher viscosity oil".

What we have seen for years are numbers fairly close together- 15w40, 20w50, 25w60.  That is because it's difficult to get such a wide ranging multigrade oil, such as 0w60 (which was impossible to achieve 0w before synthetics) which still has the film strength, and the ability to handle heat, enough to effectively protect particularly for long periods. 

Racing 50 is not suitable for all applications, it is a 25w60 oil designed to be the toughest it can possibly be.  No expense spared.  I wouldn't put it in a prius which lives in the snow- the thing wouldn't turn over.  Conversely, in Mt Isa, in an XB V8 it is ideal.  Even though the cooling system may only vary say 10°c in high temperatures, the sump still sits inches over a bitumen road, which reaches temperatures high enough to literally melt your shoes.

We specify Racing 50 for almost any race vehicle over say 600cc capacity (and some 600cc bikes).  Fluid friction losses of a high viscosity oil is overcome by the reduction in mechanical friction.  THESE GUYS GO A FULL SEASON, IF NOT MORE WITHOUT CHANGING OIL!  I want to emphasize that point, because most ultra thin synthetics get changed every race meet, some half way through a weekend meet- because they are simply worn out.

I often will specify higher viscosity mineral oils where ultra thin synthetics are called for.  Once the owner of the vehicle gets over this fact and reluctantly gives in, well I've had so many people come back amazed at the difference.  Particularly high revving bikes, and turbos.  If the author of that article were to visit me here in Australia, I would START him on a 15w40 oil (after it's been run in on whatever his manufacturer specifies) going up in viscosity if he raced it. 

Another part of the article worthy of mention- to the effect that manufacturers have gone to a lot of expense and trouble to ensure they specify the right oil for your vehicle.  Manufactuer's don't understand it why when working with PM, I typically tell people up to 4 times the service period, while doubling engine and driveline expected life, while reducing fuel consumption. We have several manufacturers who recognise this- some Honda dealerships once allowed 24,00km services under warranty on sportsbikes (normally 6,00km). Isuzu Rocklea have admitted that we are the ONLY oil they will allow 60,000km services in their trucks.  They won't even do that with their own oil.  Mercedes are watching us, because of the high failure rate of Vito vans, yet strangely enough there are a couple of fleets who just don't seem to have the same issue as most of the other vans....Why won't manufacturers use us?  Oh, about $8 per litre.....if you were as cynical as myself you might even go as far as saying they want to keep servicing vehicles regularly and have parts wear out to increase profit.  Ooops did I just say that?

[rocketeer]

Sorry guys I know there are other replies, I will get back to you all I promise!

[Brock]

Keep going, this is good stuff

[Dan]

Hi rocketeer, thanks for the detailed replies - I'll take some time to read through them properly.

One thing I can say though - I probably am as cynical as you