HIDs flicker but don't fire up... advice sought...

[Diesel]

Relatively new HIDs in a ST1300 have worked faultlessly since installation. (No starter bypass switch).

Last night found that they now flicker for .25 sec then die instead of gaining intensity.

They are the type that retract when high beam switch is flicked.

Tonight - no change - initial flicker then nothing. High beam mechanism fine, marker lights fine, all other electricals fine.

Are my HIDs rooted?

They showed no signs of dying, and the fuse must be OK as they flicker for that initial half sec before dying, so power is present.

Any ideas gurus?

Battery and connections check out OK, new ballast installed - NO CHANGE - NEXT!!????

I've check the fuse, the earth, wiggled n jiggled all connections to make sure they were solid, checked the +ive - OK

I'm thinking it must be the electronics of the kit now - but I'd just like to make sure before I spend my 150th dollar on this 78 dollar kit....

Other than this - I'm out...

Cheers, Diesel

[Marcus]

 

Could be an I/O error. 

[Brock]

Buggered Bulbs???? Not having HIDs, Im just guessing but thats all thats left.

 

[Diesel]

Buggered Bulbs???? Not having HIDs, Im just guessing but thats all thats left.

 

Yeah Brock - but HIDs don't have a filament - it is gas that is ignited - hence the longer life - ALSO - strange that they BOTH went at the same time...?

[saaz]

Assuming all the common power (including the relay and fuse) and earths checked out, the new ballast should have worked.  The ballast to HID globe connection is unique to each ballast. I have spare ballasts but not much good them being down here.  Mine have been ok the last 16,000kms and 18 months, the only problem was a loose earth connection last month that was easily fixed.  Anyone nearby with a kit installed so you can swap the relay over - I still suspect that the relay loom may not be supplying sufficient current for the start up so that is why it is aborting due to insufficient current.  The original H4 socket is used to switch between low and high beam - is that still moving the bulbs in and out?  I think it should default to low beam if that is not working, but I have not checked. Will get back a bit later on that once I try mine as easy to do.

Ok, an update. Just tried mine with the HIDs on, disconnected the original H4 plug that is used to trigger hi/lo on the HIDs.  There has to be a hi or low signal or else the HIDs power off, no light at all.  So make sure that the original H4 socket works on a H4 bulb, and that there is a signal getting through the HID connection. If the original headlight circuit has a problem (fuse, relay etc) then that will affect the HIDs.  The hi/lo still working seems to indicate that there is a connection so this may be a red herring.

 

[rendog]

As my Grandad used to say, "Yur not holdin ya tongue right boy" 

Two common faults come to mind;
1. faulty signal - so if you are using the original wiring as trigger check Honda's fuses, relays etc,
2. insufficient supply - could be main power wire or earth connection limiting current.

Bypass all of these by connecting battery straight to your signal and supply & see if the HID's fire up.

If all else fails, eat more mangoes 

[Diesel]

Great advice thanks Chaps - I roughly tried the old Halogen again and it did NOT fire up - but the multimeter told me there was power to the plug when the ig was on, and none when ig was off - ipso facto, ignition seems to work OK - but Halogen SHOULD HAVE fired - will do more testing tonite.

Hi-lo mechanism DOES move bulb in and out saaz (i.e. NOT locked on lo-beam possie etc).

Check both headlight fuses - A-OK!

Will be more thorough in testing tonight as I cannot understand why there is power (11.94 volts) to the plug, but no arc!!!        ||| ||| |||         

I'll try the other side. I CAN hear relays clicking at appropriate times too. I'll investigate the suggestion of better earthing as well.

Funny though - these lights have been on since Sep, and endured Ironbutt and FarRides - then just went out together.

If the globes were shot - the Halogen should have come on.....   more testing!

Thanks for the input so far.     

Diesel

[saaz]

I should have asked this before, but did your kit come with a separate relay loom that is attached to the battery, has its own fuse and the ballasts plug into it as well as one of the original headlight plugs used to go between hi/lo?  Some kits just use power from the original headlight plug, which may not be sufficient after being used for a while as the extra current required might degrade the OEM relays or cause inconsistent arching up.  If the bulbs are going in and out then there is enough power getting through for that.  A good H4 bulb should work on the original plug though - worth having a good look at that.  Have you tried using the other OEM bulb plug to power things up (assuming you have a relay loom) or to test with a H4 bulb?

Sounds like methodical testing to elimate some possibilites is required. I don't envy you as when electrical stuff goes wrong somethimes they can a pain to track down.  Ask Craig Lowndes :)

[Diesel]

Ha! update *************************

1st of all - saaz - it has its own loom and fuse... but check this out......

I grabbed to OTHER H4 Halogen bulb and plugged it in - BEHOLD! Light! The first H4 bulb I used to test was BLOWN!!!    |||

This proves that the OEM circuit/relay/fuse system is still cosher! (just got an 'outside influence' result with the faulty bulb making me think it was circuit probs).

This now narrows it down to TWO things......

1. The HID bulbs are both rooted - (although still a freakish chance that they both went at exactly the same time), OR
2. The HID electronics/relay system is rooted.

Guess I'll have to buy another kit anyways as, sure as my a$$ points to the ground, if I buy globes, it'll be the electronics.     >:(

At least I can whack the H4 (and another spare one I have) back in for the mean time.

I'll test the bulbs when the new kit arrives and let you know the results.

$$$$$ can be deposited directly into my account for making you all just that little bit smarter!       

Thanks again villains.  Diesel

PS - After this, I'm going to use a neat little trick I learned in the start-up procedure from now on, to prolong the life of the HIDs

[saaz]

And the trick is...

What I do is turn on the ignition and just a few seconds longer than usual before firing up the bike. HIDs stay on and power up.  How long they last..I will let you know some year 

[Diesel]

Well............ first of all.........

does the 1100 work like this......

key in, ignition on (headlights come on), fuel pump noise, ignite with starter (headlights go off for the starting period), engine running?

[saaz]

No, the Australian ST11s don't have that starter light cutout. US and other ones do.  When I had the halogens in I was going to rig a cutout on start up, but glad I didn't bother

[Diesel]

Then, as always saaz - you are right on the money with YOUR start-up procedure......

My trick is for the 13's then as they have a headlight cut-out switch for the starting (starter motor) period.

The trick is....

Hold the starter button as you switch on the ignition. The bike will start instantaneously, bypassing the 'headlight on - then off - then back on' stage. Once you release the starter button, the headlights will ignite.

POSITIVES:  The halogens/HIDs are NOT subject to the on/off rigmarole that causes the globes to fail earlier;

NEGATIVES: I've always been a believer of turning the ignition on, waiting for the FI light (EMS) and fuel pump to "power up" before igniting the fire - dunno what the consequences of bypassing this are yet - ideas? But this lets the computer get its bearings as far as the bike's systems are concerned.

Cheers, Diesel

[saaz]

Interesting tip, have to remember that one as it may apply to other bikes with the headlight off on start.

 

[Malcolm6112]

Diesel, there was something about this on the US site. Someone had put a timer in the circuit. You could start the bike and the lights would come on after 20 seconds or so.

[Gavo]

I have decided to keepthings simple an do it this way

http://www.motorcyclelarry.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3&products_id=360

And just add on.

Leaving headlights normal. high beam doesnt seem to bother oncomming traffic low beam is just shite

[Diesel]

 Yeah - nice score there Gavo - you could light up the Gabba with those cannons!     

[Gavo]

Cannons in transit left Cannada on 18th through to LA 21st somewhere between here and there.

 

Need a waiting waiting smilie

[Tackleberry]

Just think Gavo, you could have gotten the same lights from Shore Line Importers in WA and they could have been on your bike by now.  

http://www.shorelineimports.com.au/ 

 

By the way they light up the road REAL well. 

 

[Brock]

You need to lift them slightly Tack,

You will only see the wabbits, not the Woos

 

[Gavo]

 Lookin Good




Good things come to thse who wait  also brackets and wirring harness ect

Looking forward ill have em on by end of december
Theres a whole lotta lookin and studdying to do before i Fitem

[Malcolm6112]

Tackleberry, what brackets did you use to mount the HID lights?
 

[saaz]

Look like the police brackets you can get for the ST11 (they are still white)

[Diesel]

OK - I have returned Stella Treacherous to a Halogen headlight setup for the time being - I reckon the electronics part of the  HID kit is fu...errr  no good!

Can you come over Brock and confirm pleeeeeeeeeeeease!!???     

There could be a      in it for ya! - It's only Queensland - a great little ride!              

Either that, or I'm up for a new kit, as you can buy globes and ballasts by themselves - but haven't seen the guts only of the kits for sale.

[saaz]

The Jaycar kit I bought is still working fine, but extra $$.  This seems like a good longer term place to go to if you have to replace cheaper kits every year http://www.hid-lightsdownunder.com/service1.html  The 70W kit would be great, but the ST11 low beam cutoff is not good enough, too much scatter and would annoy other road users (but they do say it has extra cutoff on low). How is the ST13 cutoff on low beam?  I could sell you my 35w kit and buy the 70w one