OzSTOC
Farkles, Gear & Accessories => Farkles and Gear General Section => Topic started by: Diesel on October 25, 2011, 10:04:00 AM
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Relatively new HIDs in a ST1300 have worked faultlessly since installation. (No starter bypass switch).
Last night found that they now flicker for .25 sec then die instead of gaining intensity.
They are the type that retract when high beam switch is flicked.
Tonight - no change - initial flicker then nothing. High beam mechanism fine, marker lights fine, all other electricals fine.
Are my HIDs rooted?
They showed no signs of dying, and the fuse must be OK as they flicker for that initial half sec before dying, so power is present.
Any ideas gurus?
Battery and connections check out OK, new ballast installed - NO CHANGE - NEXT!!????
I've check the fuse, the earth, wiggled n jiggled all connections to make sure they were solid, checked the +ive - OK
I'm thinking it must be the electronics of the kit now - but I'd just like to make sure before I spend my 150th dollar on this 78 dollar kit....
Other than this - I'm out...
Cheers, Diesel
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:think1
Could be an I/O error. :rofl
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Buggered Bulbs???? Not having HIDs, Im just guessing but thats all thats left.
:think1
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Buggered Bulbs???? Not having HIDs, Im just guessing but thats all thats left.
:think1
Yeah Brock - but HIDs don't have a filament - it is gas that is ignited - hence the longer life - ALSO - strange that they BOTH went at the same time...?
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Assuming all the common power (including the relay and fuse) and earths checked out, the new ballast should have worked. The ballast to HID globe connection is unique to each ballast. I have spare ballasts but not much good them being down here. Mine have been ok the last 16,000kms and 18 months, the only problem was a loose earth connection last month that was easily fixed. Anyone nearby with a kit installed so you can swap the relay over - I still suspect that the relay loom may not be supplying sufficient current for the start up so that is why it is aborting due to insufficient current. The original H4 socket is used to switch between low and high beam - is that still moving the bulbs in and out? I think it should default to low beam if that is not working, but I have not checked. Will get back a bit later on that once I try mine as easy to do.
Ok, an update. Just tried mine with the HIDs on, disconnected the original H4 plug that is used to trigger hi/lo on the HIDs. There has to be a hi or low signal or else the HIDs power off, no light at all. So make sure that the original H4 socket works on a H4 bulb, and that there is a signal getting through the HID connection. If the original headlight circuit has a problem (fuse, relay etc) then that will affect the HIDs. The hi/lo still working seems to indicate that there is a connection so this may be a red herring.
:think1
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As my Grandad used to say, "Yur not holdin ya tongue right boy" :crackup
Two common faults come to mind;
1. faulty signal - so if you are using the original wiring as trigger check Honda's fuses, relays etc,
2. insufficient supply - could be main power wire or earth connection limiting current.
Bypass all of these by connecting battery straight to your signal and supply & see if the HID's fire up.
If all else fails, eat more mangoes |-i
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Great advice thanks Chaps - I roughly tried the old Halogen again and it did NOT fire up - but the multimeter told me there was power to the plug when the ig was on, and none when ig was off - ipso facto, ignition seems to work OK - but Halogen SHOULD HAVE fired - will do more testing tonite.
Hi-lo mechanism DOES move bulb in and out saaz (i.e. NOT locked on lo-beam possie etc).
Check both headlight fuses - A-OK!
Will be more thorough in testing tonight as I cannot understand why there is power (11.94 volts) to the plug, but no arc!!! :o||| :o||| :o||| :cuss
I'll try the other side. I CAN hear relays clicking at appropriate times too. I'll investigate the suggestion of better earthing as well.
Funny though - these lights have been on since Sep, and endured Ironbutt and FarRides - then just went out together.
If the globes were shot - the Halogen should have come on..... more testing!
Thanks for the input so far. :thumbs
Diesel
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I should have asked this before, but did your kit come with a separate relay loom that is attached to the battery, has its own fuse and the ballasts plug into it as well as one of the original headlight plugs used to go between hi/lo? Some kits just use power from the original headlight plug, which may not be sufficient after being used for a while as the extra current required might degrade the OEM relays or cause inconsistent arching up. If the bulbs are going in and out then there is enough power getting through for that. A good H4 bulb should work on the original plug though - worth having a good look at that. Have you tried using the other OEM bulb plug to power things up (assuming you have a relay loom) or to test with a H4 bulb?
Sounds like methodical testing to elimate some possibilites is required. I don't envy you as when electrical stuff goes wrong somethimes they can a pain to track down. Ask Craig Lowndes :)
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Ha! update *************************
1st of all - saaz - it has its own loom and fuse... but check this out......
I grabbed to OTHER H4 Halogen bulb and plugged it in - BEHOLD! Light! The first H4 bulb I used to test was BLOWN!!! :o|||
This proves that the OEM circuit/relay/fuse system is still cosher! (just got an 'outside influence' result with the faulty bulb making me think it was circuit probs).
This now narrows it down to TWO things......
1. The HID bulbs are both rooted - (although still a freakish chance that they both went at exactly the same time), OR
2. The HID electronics/relay system is rooted.
Guess I'll have to buy another kit anyways as, sure as my a$$ points to the ground, if I buy globes, it'll be the electronics. >:(
At least I can whack the H4 (and another spare one I have) back in for the mean time.
I'll test the bulbs when the new kit arrives and let you know the results.
$$$$$ can be deposited directly into my account for making you all just that little bit smarter! :rofl
Thanks again villains. Diesel
PS - After this, I'm going to use a neat little trick I learned in the start-up procedure from now on, to prolong the life of the HIDs
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And the trick is... :well
What I do is turn on the ignition and just a few seconds longer than usual before firing up the bike. HIDs stay on and power up. How long they last..I will let you know some year :beer
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Well............ first of all.........
does the 1100 work like this......
key in, ignition on (headlights come on), fuel pump noise, ignite with starter (headlights go off for the starting period), engine running?
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No, the Australian ST11s don't have that starter light cutout. US and other ones do. When I had the halogens in I was going to rig a cutout on start up, but glad I didn't bother
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Then, as always saaz - you are right on the money with YOUR start-up procedure......
My trick is for the 13's then as they have a headlight cut-out switch for the starting (starter motor) period.
The trick is....
Hold the starter button as you switch on the ignition. The bike will start instantaneously, bypassing the 'headlight on - then off - then back on' stage. Once you release the starter button, the headlights will ignite.
POSITIVES: The halogens/HIDs are NOT subject to the on/off rigmarole that causes the globes to fail earlier;
NEGATIVES: I've always been a believer of turning the ignition on, waiting for the FI light (EMS) and fuel pump to "power up" before igniting the fire - dunno what the consequences of bypassing this are yet - ideas? But this lets the computer get its bearings as far as the bike's systems are concerned.
Cheers, Diesel
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Interesting tip, have to remember that one as it may apply to other bikes with the headlight off on start.
:thumbsup
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Diesel, there was something about this on the US site. Someone had put a timer in the circuit. You could start the bike and the lights would come on after 20 seconds or so.
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I have decided to keepthings simple an do it this way
http://www.motorcyclelarry.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3&products_id=360
And just add on.
Leaving headlights normal. high beam doesnt seem to bother oncomming traffic low beam is just shite
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Yeah - nice score there Gavo - you could light up the Gabba with those cannons! :thumbs
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Cannons in transit left Cannada on 18th through to LA 21st somewhere between here and there.
:think1
Need a waiting waiting smilie :blu13
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Just think Gavo, you could have gotten the same lights from Shore Line Importers in WA and they could have been on your bike by now. :rofl
http://www.shorelineimports.com.au/
(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Tack9204/FarRiders/DSCF0896.jpg)
By the way they light up the road REAL well.
(http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww323/Tack9204/FarRiders/DSCF0754.jpg)
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You need to lift them slightly Tack,
You will only see the wabbits, not the Woos
:wht11
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Lookin Good
:blu13
Good things come to thse who wait :think1 also brackets and wirring harness ect
Looking forward ill have em on by end of december
Theres a whole lotta lookin and studdying to do before i Fitem
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Tackleberry, what brackets did you use to mount the HID lights?
:blu13
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Look like the police brackets you can get for the ST11 (they are still white)
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OK - I have returned Stella Treacherous to a Halogen headlight setup for the time being - I reckon the electronics part of the HID kit is fu...errr no good!
Can you come over Brock and confirm pleeeeeeeeeeeease!!??? :thumbs
There could be a :beer in it for ya! - It's only Queensland - a great little ride! :eek :grin
Either that, or I'm up for a new kit, as you can buy globes and ballasts by themselves - but haven't seen the guts only of the kits for sale.
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The Jaycar kit I bought is still working fine, but extra $$. This seems like a good longer term place to go to if you have to replace cheaper kits every year http://www.hid-lightsdownunder.com/service1.html The 70W kit would be great, but the ST11 low beam cutoff is not good enough, too much scatter and would annoy other road users (but they do say it has extra cutoff on low). How is the ST13 cutoff on low beam? I could sell you my 35w kit and buy the 70w one :runyay
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Sure thing Diesel, I have the day off, so I will just pop over. How long could it take???
:runyay :runyay :hatwave
:rofl :rofl
:wht11
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youll get there quicker on a blue beaST :blu13
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:hijacked Sorry about hijacking your thread Diesel but I'll answer a few questions.
You need to lift them slightly Tack,
You will only see the wabbits, not the Woos
The picture of the lights working was taken when they were mounted on my Blackbird, and it was sitting on centre stand, so they were a little low compared to normal alignment. When riding I did see the skippies, mostly shielding their eyes. >:() The picture also doesn't do them justice
Tackleberry, what brackets did you use to mount the HID lights?
Look like the police brackets you can get for the ST11 (they are still white)
The picture of the lights mounted on my current baby :dred11 are indeed correctly identified as being on Police mounts, (Saaz cheated cause he's seen em up close lol) and before anybody else asks, I have tried to obtain the new 1300 brackets and been told not yet.
Highjack over now Diesel. :grin
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Spitting chips ! :o|||
I've got a pair of police mounts - both for the left hand side. >:() and a similar pair of 4 inch 35W. HID driving lights also from Shoreline Import just waiting to be mounted onto the ST.
Got the all black bodied ones - just couldn't bring myself to pay the extra $79 just for the orange parts.
YES - I know - - Cheapskate ! :p
They happened to be on special when I picked them up - $210 for a pair as against $289 for the pair for the ones with the orange body parts.
See they are back up to $280 a pair on fleabay tonight. :(
The HID headlights of the ST. have their own dedicated wires running directly from the battery to the ballast these extra HID driving lights come off the same feed with a relay between each light and the switch. ( Ex-Police ST's have heaps of spare switches :) )
Can't mount the driving lights until I can get my hands on a R/H mounting bracket. :'(
Still looking . . . . . . . :(
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Dave,
I had a similar problem with mine at the start, check and re check your connections (initial problem) also the bike start switch, found mine had dirty contacts on the light circuit part of the switch cleaned it up and no problems (touch wood) since, this is the switch where you can cut the circuit and install a headlight interup switch.
If you need it I have a curcuit layour to install the switch, Ive drilled the hole and gone no further as everthing is working (touch a tree) now all ive got to do is get rid of the F1 light....bloody MAP sensor :o||| :o|||
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ST13s are wonderful bikes otherwise, huh.... :whistle
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WOO HOO ! Twin 35W HID driving lights coming up. :grin
Found a R/H light bracket of fleabay - UK fleabay. Being sold right here in Perth. :thumbsup
Contacted the seller and arranging a meeting for a pick up on Thursday or Friday this week. :runyay
All the replacements for the bent and broken parts have arrived at Causeway Honda now,
so just waiting for Panel and Paint of Osborne Park to finish up the welding and re-painting. :grin
Just checked the HID driving lights, was supposted to get a mixed pair from Shoreline Imports, one pencil beam
and one wide beam - but was given two pencil beams instead, the young guy working there did not know what
he was doing.
First off he tried to charge me the full price for a pair of lights for just the one - had to get him to look at their fleabay
site to see the price was foe a pair of HID light. No biggy and easerly sorted out. :)
That's the trouble with being too technically switched on - sometimes the little details escape your notice. :whistle
Life is just SO much better on a - :wht11
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I found on the weekend that one of the Narva driving lights has a cracked lense (bloody Queensland!), so down to one halogen powered driving light with a Vision plus bulb in it. Question is now whether to replace the one light, get another pair (probabaly cheaper) or go LED or HID (each have pros and cons) or get a HID to run with the halogen (one on instantly, one a little bit behind). Or not bother an look like a Road Warrior. I will just go on the Snowyride and think about it. :think1
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Just checked the HID driving lights, was supposted to get a mixed pair from Shoreline Imports, one pencil beam and one wide beam - but was given two pencil beams instead,
Flip just check the beams mate because the HID's that Shoreline sell with the red rim are referred to as a Eurobeam. They have a spot centre and taper out into the tabledrains for an all round effect. They may be this combo.
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My cannons cleared customs on the 28th at 2.40 pm so im now wacthing the po box for their iminent arrival :runyay
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G'day Tackleberry, :)
yes, I noticed that at their storeroom / shop with the boxes of 4" HID lights in their boxes on the shelves.
Some of the boxes where marked as ' Eurobeam ' on the outside of the boxes.
Both the units I was given are in black boxs marked with the brand name - ' Valkyrie ' and above that 'black spot.'
The three little marking boxes labled 'Pencilbeam' 'Eurobeam' and 'Widebeam' are unmarked.
Just checked them both out of the boxes - only opened the one of them at the storeroom / shop.
One reflector has a completely smooth surface on it's parabolic refective surface - the other one has about 10 vertical ribs on it's reflector. ( DAMN IT ! >:( )
Oh well, - can't win them all I guess. :grin
Life is just SO much better on a - :wht11
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:hijacked
Well, back on track a bit! We should be concerned for Diesels's problems and not that the rest of us are having a great time :runyay
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Cannons they are! :runyay
Have arived and they are huge. :thumbs
Soon to be fitted up :think1
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Any updates on Diesel's HID issues? Just wondering if a solution has been found that may help others. I am feeling uneasy that I have perfectly working hi/lo and HID converted driving lights :thumb
And here is a link to some HIDs on special at the moment. No connection just came across it. make sure you get the AC versions, not the cheaper and less reliable DC ones. Parts are pretty cheap too!
http://stores.ebay.com.au/factorykissau?_trksid=p4340.l2563
35W ones may be better as I have seen report of ST13 reflectors going offcolour with 55w.
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Beware, these are Xenon high and halogen low.
:blu13
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Not all are, but there are quite a few of those HID/halogen bulbs that are basically useless - why they sell them I don't know (apart from being cheap but useless!). Amongst the kits there are some hi-low beam kits that are HID, but only seem to be in 55W. Also quite a few useless colour ones for looks only and single beam H4 (H4-3 are the dual HID beam ones, preferrably 4300K but I run 6000K and they are fine).
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Yeah I know its a late post but after doing a couple of days in the storm last week my left HID left spotlight started doing what diesals were doing?? So I strips it down and finds the connections from the ballast had come loose. While I was at it I ditched the HID Hi/Lo setup as the low beam was great but the high beam was?????????
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:hijacked
Terry, what was wrong with the high beam on the HID?
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OK - now officially not happy with HID headlight sets >:(
After finally getting my ST back together and booking it in tomorrow morning at The Honda Shop in Midland to have the backfiring seen to -
wheeled it out onto the street tonight to set up the new HID driving lights - turned on the key and before I could even start the engine, noticed a flickering coming from the HID headlights.
That lasted about two seconds then no headlights at all :eek :'(
Turned the key off again - waited a few minutes then turned it back on straight to engine start-up - - - still no headlights at all :(
Tried high and low beams - nothing except the 'clicking' of the original Honda relay deep inside the front cowling.
Kept the engine running while setting up the driving lights - they work great - but still no headlights.
Looks like the front cowling will be coming apart ( AGAIN :cuss ) as soon as the bike gets back from having the engine fixed.
Since the HID headlights have their own feed directly from the battery and the new driving lights share that feed - have a spare pair of globes and a spare harness but no spare ballasts - want to bet it will be the ballasts that are stuffed ? >:()
Still hoping it is just the fuse in the HID headlights harness that has popped :whistle
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:hijacked
Terry, what was wrong with the high beam on the HID?
Mate tried a lot of different ways to get it sorted but was never quite right. For some reason the difference between Low Beam and High Beam wasn't really their at all except for the width??? maybe
The spotlights are just the best so I have now a pair of F4's 60/55w X-tream Vision +100%. Used to run before the HID's 100/90's without a problem, so I'll see how these go.
And mate I know your setup rocks, as I didn't even have to have my lights on that night when I followed you
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Thanks for the follow up Terry, I was starting to think i needed to check mine out >:() I am a big believer in "what suits you" for most things riding, in this case age, eyes, amount of Km travelling and time, all add into the equation of what is best for each of us. You may also consider dropping back to the 4300K to see if that suits :crazy Will chat Sunday. cheers
Hijack over
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The HIDs in the ST1100 don't look dramatic on high beam, as the beam spreads a lot with not that much penetration. The light is still better than normal H4s though. I am using 6000K but some say that 4300K works better for them vision wise. I might try 55W hi/los but the ST11 light has a bit too much scatter for my liking, so don't want to cause other road users too much trouble on low beam.
BTW I have modified my headligh housing to take normal H4 bulbs without modification. Perhaps this might make a difference? Locating the bulbs properly is crucial.
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Even though this link below is a couple of years old, it is still good for info on the HID install. From memory and I am not sure if it talks about it in the link below but it is critical to have these mounted correctly. By ensuring this, then the cut off should be the same as the old lights. When I did my install and before I started I marked my cutoff with the OEM light then, after the install of the HID, checked to make sure they were the same.
I am not sure what people are looking for in penetration but mine definitely penetrate further than the OEM or any of the other normal bulbs that I tried prior to going with HID. I have the 35w 6000k HID's mounted
http://www.my-mc.com/messages/1/120477.html?1256619323
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I am comparing high beam pebetration with some marschall 7" headlights I have used on my older 78 GS1000. The marschall have a great beam pattern, with spread and penetration. The ST11 pattern is more of a blob of light by comparison, but if you introduce enough light it is better! HID is the best. Even normal 55w driving lights make a difference to penetration - HIDs alot better.