Author Topic: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal  (Read 2512 times)

Offline Shillas

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South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« on: April 18, 2019, 12:59:58 PM »

It's been a bad year on the road for motorcyclists so far this year, with 9 deaths.

The reaction - proposed that you can't get motorcycle licence till you've had a year's car experience, aimed at L platers.

Most of those who died weren't teenagers with limited experience on a bike, so not sure how that would assist. Be more useful for drivers to be aware of motorcycles and get some experience on them.  :angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/plan-new-motorbike-riders-need-to-have-oneyear-lplate-experience-in-cars-first/news-story/af2ac72b0a1733cefbdaf0efbd6221ec
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Offline Biggles

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 03:23:07 PM »
There have been folks on the bike forums over the years saying it would be good for everyone to have a motorcycle licence before they got a car licence- at least to build awareness of motorcycles.
The gummint has to do something in SA.  A better solution was that of the Gold Coast City Council a few years ago who too many bikers were killing themselves in the hinterland.  They subsidised training days on the actual "deadly" roads.  We paid $45 for a day's training with HART instructors.  Whether by fluke or otherwise, the toll, especially in that area, has dropped.
The fact is, good training and counselling should set young people up to not kill themselves on a motorbike.  I included counselling there, because their young blood will force them to push way beyond their skill level and they need to be made aware of that danger, even if the talking bores them.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 03:26:23 PM by Biggles »
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Offline alans1100

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 04:55:28 PM »
SA is severely lacking in advanced courses for motorcycling as well for as driving.

Someone bought up this up quite sometime ago (late 70s or early 80s) and the government of the day rejected the idea because the idea of people knowing how to drive their cars/bikes a little better might cause them to speed more often and drive more dangerously.

Honda has never had HART here as far as I'm aware.

This is the only one that comes up in SA and the advanced course is fairly basic from what I can see. http://radskills.com.au/advanced-motorcycling/#motorcycle-advanced-onroad-course

Over the years I've noticed a lot of EU countries tend to favour the younger ones to ride either a scooter or a motorcycle as they tend to make better car drivers. Also a two wheeled vehicle is often more affordable than a car for a younger person.







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Offline Shillas

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 09:19:15 PM »
I started in a car, but went to a bike as I needed to get to Uni & public transport was no good.

I think I became a better car driver as a result, borne out years later after not riding due to family growth, then getting back on a bike, realised how much my driving skills had deteriorated in that time.

Saw stats the other day that most motorcycle deaths in recent times in SA were older riders, mid 30s through to 70s. Same time, more younger drivers died I think (number & percentage wise)

But logic rarelycome into debates about rider safety, especially in this state.
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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 09:38:23 PM »
I'd avoid public transport too.  Those bus drivers are pricks.

I was surprised at how easy it was to get a motorcycle licence in this state.  That said, two people failed the learner's permit on the two day course I attended.  It was very basic stuff and after a few hours of that was more or less told "now go and play out on the road".  The step up from learner's permit to licence was jus a few more hours on a track and I could do it on a 250cc scooter.  Wait twelve months and viola, full open licence no questiosn asked.  Whilst I benefitted from from its simplicity I still shake my head at it.
 

Online Kev Murphy

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 09:46:52 PM »
I'd avoid public transport too.  Those bus drivers are pricks. :rofl
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Offline Shillas

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 10:10:12 PM »
I'd avoid public transport too.  Those bus drivers are pricks.


Never met one who wasn't.

Even easier in my day to get a bike licence, no courses, just went round a route with an instructor on another bike. 12 months later, full licence.
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Offline Biggles

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 10:40:05 PM »
Even easier in my day to get a bike licence, no courses, just went round a route with an instructor on another bike. 12 months later, full licence.

Instructor!! Pfft. 
In Newcastle in 1968 I just attached my L plates (I suppose I did a theory test, can't remember) to the newly bought bike, and rode it until I was ready to do the "ride around the block by yourself" test.  And that was all out of a Motor Registry, not some bush Police Station.
Not long after I got my licence I was pulled over by a Cop for not indicating on a left turn.  I went to Court hoping to not have a suspension of the licence (again, I can't recall why a minor infringement like that had that penalty).  I rode into the city to the Courthouse and fronted the judge pleading I needed the bike to get to Uni because there were no buses.  He stuck me with a 3 month suspension.  I asked if it could begin that night, since I'd ridden the bike there.  He said he admired my confidence, but "No".  So I went outside and pushed it up King Street (up a reasonably steep hill, but the bike was light, and I was young) until I was over the crest then rode it home and parked it.
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Offline Shillas

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2019, 11:23:36 PM »
 :law
Even easier in my day to get a bike licence, no courses, just went round a route with an instructor on another bike. 12 months later, full licence.

Instructor!! Pfft. 
In Newcastle in 1968 I just attached my L plates (I suppose I did a theory test, can't remember) to the newly bought bike, and rode it until I was ready to do the "ride around the block by yourself" test.  And that was all out of a Motor Registry, not some bush Police Station.
Not long after I got my licence I was pulled over by a Cop for not indicating on a left turn.  I went to Court hoping to not have a suspension of the licence (again, I can't recall why a minor infringement like that had that penalty).  I rode into the city to the Courthouse and fronted the judge pleading I needed the bike to get to Uni because there were no buses.  He stuck me with a 3 month suspension.  I asked if it could begin that night, since I'd ridden the bike there.  He said he admired my confidence, but "No".  So I went outside and pushed it up King Street (up a reasonably steep hill, but the bike was light, and I was young) until I was over the crest then rode it home and parked it.

 :law  :well :spank
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Online Williamson

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2019, 11:32:20 PM »
So many anecdotes to share .....

One

Like Bill, my learner phase for car and motorcycle commenced when "L" plates were purchased from the local newsagent, mounted front and rear and (for the car) you went drive with or Dad (or other responsible fully licensed adult), or (for the motorcycle) went for a ride by yourself. 

The m/c licence test involved accompanying a Police Officer (PO) on a ride around a couple of City blocks in Melbourne (bounded by Russel Street, Lonsdale Street, Swanston Street & Collins Street) in the morning peak traffic. 

The PO had to pick something up from another location along the route.  He told me to go to the other location and he would follow and observe.  I said that I didn't know the other location, so he said to follow him, he then observed my riding ability in his rear view mirrors.

In VIC, no theory pre-learner test in those days - 1969.

Two

My best mate, Martin (some of you would have met on a few RTE's - he rides the Moto Guzzi) bought his first m/c from Maurie Quincey Motor Cycles in Moonee Ponds because they offered free riding lessons.  After all of the formalities were finalised and cash (from memory $650 for a brand new Suzuki Hustler 250 - it was a long time ago) and keys exchanged, he asked when does he get the riding lesson.

So they took him and the Suzuki to the cobble blue stone lane way at the rear of the shop.  The salesman mounted the m/c, said watch this and rode up and down the lane way, and said that's how you do it, you can ride home now.  Martin called one of the other mates who bought a 6 x 4 trailer to meet and take the m/c home for him.  Next weekend, he let loose in a paddock out the back of Keilor.

FMD, no wonder we had a high crash rate and road toll.

Three

- bedtime now -

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Offline Lionel

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 02:19:45 AM »
1965. Queensland. No L plates before 17. Learner needed to be accompanied by a licensed (at least 12 months) m’cycle rider on a bike or in a car, or carrying a licensed (at least 2 years) m’cycle rider as a pillion.
At 16 I bought a 1952 500cc twin Gold Star series BSA. A friend took me on his m’cycle to collect the bike at night. First time on a bike (never having driven a car) I rode it from East Brisbane to Inala barefoot via the ‘Gabba five ways. I stalled it a few times until I got the hang of it.
For the next few weeks I rode it around the house including up a small incline I had built to practise hill starts.
When I turned 17 I got my learners permit which allowed me to ride on the road, supervised under the rules above. However, the only road riding experience I had was riding to the motor registry, unsupervised, 6 days later to undertake my riding test.
The test involved riding through Brisbane city (trams in those days) followed by a police motorcyclist. The test included a proper hill start on a hill near the cemetery at the back of Toowong. I passed and rode it to school.
Fast forward to December 1968 I was spending Christmas holidays with my mother in Katherine, NT. I drove with my brother in his car to the police station. I showed the constable on duty my Queensland m’cycle licence. After ascertaining that I drove the car to the station he gave me a car licence there and then. In those days licences were typed on a typewriter. Licences in Queensland lasted 10 years.
P.S. ACT now issues 10 year licences. I got mine at 70 and now I have to get to 80 because your estate gets no part refund.
 

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 03:26:58 AM »
Even easier in my day to get a bike licence, no courses, just went round a route with an instructor on another bike. 12 months later, full licence.

My mate that I caught up with in Brisbane also was similar in Perth.  Did a test along a set route, went through the first set of lights that the tester got caught up with, wasn't sure what to do but completed the route and waited for the tester to get back who promply said "well I saw nothing wrong" and passed.  However, to upgrade to full licence was required to do a second test.  It wasn't automatic (well, not in those days).
 

Online Kev Murphy

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2019, 04:49:50 AM »
S.A. 1961. My father was opposed to all motor vehicles. I bought a s/h Francis Barnett motor cycle when I was 14, kept it housed on a friends property and rode it in the bush when we went rabbiting. Never told my father I had it.
When I turned 16 I got my car learner licence in a friends car, and motor cycle licence 6 months later. I bought an old Vanguard Spacemaster for 40 pounds, but when I got home from school a couple of days later, my father had sold it for 20 pounds and kept the money himself. 
I moved in with a friends family just a few weeks later and never returned home until after he died 3and a half years later. I think the main reason that I bought a new Mini Cooper 'S' in early '66 was just purely to stick it up dads nose, as I often drove past him on his pushbike as he rode home from work.
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Offline StinkyPete

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 07:10:08 AM »
I recall listening to a discussion on the radio with three driving instructors a few years ago.   The consensus was that new drivers should first learn to ride a motorcycle,  and then progress to a car license, and not the other way around   They believed that motorcyclists had better observation and self preservation skills,  and make safer car drivers.   If it is more mature riders who are crashing,  the answer may not be to further restrict younger and newer riders.
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Offline Langers

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2019, 08:07:08 AM »
My grab bag of thoughts on this include:
1 Our roads are deteriorating at an alarm rate. B Doubles, B Triples, air suspension, roads not designed for the heavier vehicles, country railways closing down all over the place (just announced all grain going by road on Eyre Penn.).
2. Ridiculous speed limits with over policing and minimal  margins for police discretion. Having just returned from an Adelaide to Sydney trip over 6 days I reckon i spent 50% of the time with my eyes on the speedo not the road.
3. Bloody mobile phones and piss poor penalties for their use when driving. At the very least they should be confiscated on the spot with collection at  a police station, on payment of a hefty fine, 5 days after the offence and publishing the name of the offender in the local rag. You might guess i hate mobile phones being used by drivers.
4. Returning riders should be required to pass a skills test before being let loose back on the road. Its bloody stupid that i could have purchased a Hyabusa and happily ridden off after 30 years of not riding. I think the happiness would have been short lived.
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Online Williamson

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2019, 11:48:49 AM »
.....The reaction - proposed that you can't get motorcycle licence till you've had a year's car experience, aimed at L platers. .....

I started in a car, but went to a bike ..... I think I became a better car driver as a result ......

Same for me.

There have been folks on the bike forums over the years saying it would be good for everyone to have a motorcycle licence before they got a car licence- at least to build awareness of motorcycles.....

There is some logic in this if Michael's and my experience would were the same for all riders and drivers, but I don't think it would, and there would be too many "fails" at the motorcycle stage before many learners got to the car stage.

Back in the early 80's to mid 90's I worked at for the RTA / VicRoads as a motorcycle riding instructor (until HART and others took over), I must've trained 1,000's to successfully pass their MOST (Motorcycle Operator Skill Test), and 100's to successfully pass their licence test.  I also trained many "learners" (those wanting a Learner's Permit) and learners (those with a permit wanting their licence) who were not successful.

Whilst I'm not aware of any analysis of "learners" becoming learners, my anecdotal conclusion is that people who wanted to ride a motorcycle, rather than those with a different motive (I want to save money, my mates ride, boyfriend rides, it looks cool - were typical responses), made better riders and were more likely to succeed.

So if car learners were required to be motorcycle riders before driving, many, many would not make it.  Of course this may be a good thing, but the civil rights, do-gooders and thus politicians would never allow this to occur.

Another factor would be cost, just checked the HART site, the best I could work out is that a m/c learner's permit will be on the high side of $500.  That'll go down well with the community - NOT!
 

Cheers,  Williamson (AKA Michael)

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Offline alans1100

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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 12:14:26 PM »

Even easier in my day to get a bike licence, no courses, just went round a route with an instructor on another bike. 12 months later, full licence.

Same here except replace instructor with tester from the rego office.

Providing I used the brake light, indicators and weren't a danger to anyone else I'd pass.

Car licence was a little different. At one cross road intersection I was supposed to turn left but did a right turn which meant more traffic to consider when making the turn. After that I was directed back to the police station by the officer who looked no older than 20 and he told me I'd passed; never even did the reverse parking which was supposed to be part of the test.


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Re: South Aussie Motorcycle License proposal
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2019, 01:24:20 PM »
never even did the reverse parking which was supposed to be part of the test.

Reminds me of getting my bus licence in Cairns (in those days bus and lorries were a different class).  A car pulled out in front of me forcing me to brake suddenly and stop, but I controlled it enough to not throw the tester out of his seat.  He said "I was going to test you on an emergency stop later but that's the real deal and you nailed it".  Back to the licensing office with a pass.