Author Topic: Filtering - Lane Splitting  (Read 29317 times)

Offline Biggles

  • NatRally 2018 - Mackay
  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *
  • Posts: 14059
  • Thanked: 2508 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2012, 11:21:12 PM »
Well that's a step in the right direction.  Especially since we're rapidly heading towards uniform national traffic legislation.

It's odd the writer only mentions some European countries are considering legitimising filtering, since it is already legal in at least two of them.  Indeed, I understand there is a line drawn at the front of the traffic light queues for m/cs to line up at.  That mightn't work here in Qld where I see half the front cars are 2 metres over the existing limit line and about 25% are 2 metres short of it.

We've flogged all the arguments to death.  We recognise there are hazards associated with it which would have to be covered in licence training.  Real care needs to be taken in the vicinity of trucks and semis, and we know there is a possibility of someone opening a car door in the middle of traffic.

Personally, I'm all for it.  I know it annoys some tintop captives, but if it were to become the norm, they'd just have to live with it and/or get a motorcycle.

The downside is the STs are a bit wide for a lot of the spaces, and I happen to have noticed (dunno how) that the mirrors are the same height above the ground as most car wing mirrors. 

Once petrol gets to $4.00 per litre when shale oil is the only source, and we're all riding methane powered postie bikes, I'm sure there will be a real push to consider the remote possibility of having further discussions about legalising filtering.

In stationary traffic.

In towns of fewer than 500 population.

On Tuesdays.

If the date is 31st of the month.

In Leap Years.
 
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline Sabie

  • Riding a Blue Angel
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2757
  • Thanked: 194 times
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2012, 12:22:28 AM »
I don't see a problem going down the outsides (left) for example the run from the north of Townsville along Woolcock St between the Bohle an mathers st roundabout. Theres a half lane or wide verge there for a couple of k's.

The other matter is at what speed is it no longer safe to go up the middle?
(Sabie pronounced Sab bee)

2004 Honda ST1300 Blue (Current)
2007 Yamaha VStar XVS 650 Classic (Current)
2011 Suzuki Boulevard C50T VL 800
2007 Yamaha XV 250 Virago
1980 CX500 Red
1980 CX500 Black
1979 CX500 Blue
1981 Honda XL 500s
1982 Yamaha XZ 550
1981 Honda XL 250s
1974 Honda Elsinore MT 250
 

Offline alans1100

  • 1999 ST1100A
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6250
  • Thanked: 1161 times
  • Alan, Peterborough, SA
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2012, 12:24:58 AM »
I posted article on my facebook and my sisters response was "Personally I don't like the idea... have had bikers tear down alongside of me and frightened the crap out of me cause the bikes are so noisy." 

I agree with you Biggles......the ST is a little to wide (or so it seems) for filtering and I haven't done it since I've had mine.


1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 

Offline Brock

  • Tardis Tech
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8724
  • Thanked: 1697 times
  • White is the fastest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2012, 08:27:51 AM »
The bikes are a little wider, but as long as the mirror tethers are serviceable, I dont see the problem. :grin :grin :grin

I will neither confirm nor deny that my covers fell off one day. They are easy to pop back on at the next set of lights, no need to get off. :rofl :rofl
Brock
Asian Correspondent
2003 Honda ST1100PY



Ulysses #32829
STOC #8239
OzSToc # ??
Kinross WA
 

Offline BigTed

  • Was: 2010 ST1300A (Black). Now: 2021 BMW r1250rt
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 741
  • Thanked: 122 times
  • Perth, WA.
    • The Nook
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2012, 08:58:52 AM »
...They are easy to pop back on at the next set of lights, no need to get off. :rofl :rofl
Not for my 1 year old ST1300 it's not... two hands and a good lean. I couldn't possible do it at the lights one-handed. This is also the reason why my target gap is quite wide.... my mirrors will come off and can be put back in place, but I reckon the car's mirrors will end up in pieces on the ground, and my ST13 subsequently being pursued. Perhaps it's because your ST11 is a little more "seasoned" than mine.  :p
Rob (in Who's Who)
STOC# 8422

"And yet it moves." - Galileo.
 

Offline Diesel

  • Administrator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
  • Thanked: 814 times
  • QUEEEENSLANDER!!!!
    • The Review Guys
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2012, 09:54:09 AM »
'Safety' is a funny and rubbery word as the Gubberment in the UK (or parts thereof) have decided that filtering is a safe practice that also helps the movement of traffic and alleviates congestion, by having those 10,000 or so motorbikes evacuate the area instead of being more stationery lumps on the street/roadway.....

I guess the driver and rider education there is also commensurate with allowing for this practice....

But our Gubberment decides that the practice is not safe.

Be clear all you great contributors to this thread that 'filtering' is meant to mean SLOWLY moving between cars when they are STOPPED! If you change any of those two words the danger increases immeasurably and exponentially! And even the term 'filtering' has to be changed because when the cars are MOVING - it is not what the intended guidelines allowed for!

Here is a link to a poll/discussion we once ran on this very subject....

http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=768.0

Thanks for a great thread.

Cheers, Diesel

EDIT: For the record - I don't filter - but I have moved along the adequately sized left shoulder of the road with slow (5km/h) moving traffic in one of those 8 kilomtere Bruce Highway traffic jams - due to accident - but I CAN get booked for this.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 09:57:17 AM by Diesel »
FarRider #416   IBA #55491  
OzSTOC Life Member
:candystwheelie       www.dieselst1300.blogspot.com.au
 

terrydj

  • Guest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2012, 10:43:46 AM »

I agree with you Biggles......the ST is a little to wide (or so it seems) for filtering and I haven't done it since I've had mine.
Agree their a bit wider than a "Sports Bike" but when the traffics stopped I am always trying to get to the front. And have only ever touched a Mirror once and that was last week here on the Gold Coast.
Should see the looks on people faces when you you do it two up with a trailer on :rofl :rofl
Its a real "What the F???"
 

Offline Biggles

  • NatRally 2018 - Mackay
  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *
  • Posts: 14059
  • Thanked: 2508 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2012, 10:21:41 PM »
I posted article on my facebook and my sisters response was "Personally I don't like the idea... have had bikers tear down alongside of me and frightened the crap out of me cause the bikes are so noisy." 


I sympathise completely with that view, both regarding the speed and the noise.  The usual defence of "Loud pipes save lives" is pure BS in my book. 
Loud pipes are yelling "Look at me on my amazing Harley" or Chook Chaser or whatever.

While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes?  There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too.  Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline Sabie

  • Riding a Blue Angel
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2757
  • Thanked: 194 times
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2012, 10:29:07 PM »
I agree Biggles, when they pull up beside me at the lights they scare the bejesus out of me with the noise.

You think your sitting at the front of a line of cars by yourself waiting for the green and all of a sudden the Harley pulls up beside you and scares the hell out of you.   :eek  :well
(Sabie pronounced Sab bee)

2004 Honda ST1300 Blue (Current)
2007 Yamaha VStar XVS 650 Classic (Current)
2011 Suzuki Boulevard C50T VL 800
2007 Yamaha XV 250 Virago
1980 CX500 Red
1980 CX500 Black
1979 CX500 Blue
1981 Honda XL 500s
1982 Yamaha XZ 550
1981 Honda XL 250s
1974 Honda Elsinore MT 250
 

terrydj

  • Guest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2012, 06:23:15 AM »
While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes?  There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too.  Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?

A while back I worked for "LINK" International, probably the largest after market Motorcycle parts supplier in Australia.
We sold heaps of aftermarket pipes to the Ahhhhhhh Biker cruiser crowd and I never seen a pair that had an Australian Compliance stamped on them??? Their may have been a pair but never seen them.
Believe it or not, the majority of ahhhhhhh riders that brought them never brought the chip that tells their ignition system the exhaust flow has been altered, that's why most sound like crap and they all backfire??????
I ran a 2" straight through system for maybe 10/15 years on my old Stroked Harley that was heaps quieter than the rubbish you here now.
Suppose it all comes down to the Look at me Look at me, my bike is newer than yours, my Chrome is shinier than yours, environment that some??????? motorcyclists exist in.
As to the legal side all I know is no stamp, Off the road. Too loud off the road "Simple"
 

Offline Tackleberry

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • QUEENSLANDER!!!!!!!
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2012, 12:53:41 PM »
I sympathise completely with that view, both regarding the speed and the noise. The usual defence of "Loud pipes save lives" is pure BS in my book.  +1 :thumbsup
Loud pipes are yelling "Look at me on my amazing Harley" or Chook Chaser or whatever.

While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes?  There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too.  Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?
 
Biggles quite simply it comes down to three things: 

1.  Australian Standard requirements for testing at specific rev limits and quite a few of these bikes simply don't have tachos to allow for testing in compliance with Australian Standards when we do have the equipment in calibration. (internal issue - money)  There are also different interpretations of what equipment is required for testing.  I know myself, and quite a few traffic fellas, have the opinion that we don't want our integrity questioned in Court for when we arrive with more 'serious' matters and are very cautious when these types of questions are raised in Courts about whether we are following the correct procedures when dealing with motorists.  Until these issues are sorted and everybody is on the same page (which is required as far as I'm concerned) we don't want to plough head on and be criticised in Court because we were blindly following what we're told to do without questioning the procedures are correct to ensure we are following legislation. 

2.  The second one we deal with is the wording of legislation in relation to penalising people that perform the modification and the investigation required to prove who did the modification.  Most Harley's leave the factory with standard pipes that comply with world wide noise limits, however before they leave the dealer there is a modification to pipes that don't comply, as Terry said.  Most people believe that these pipes comply because they buy the bike like this and sound level testing is not part of the Safety Certificate (insert whatever your state calls it here) for registration so they don't understand why they can have a registered bike that doesn't comply with legislation because of the "That's how I bought it" defence.  Most people don't understand that the safety/roadworthy inspection in most states and territories only covers about 40-50 points to pass. 

3.  The other issue we have faced with this is that a lot of people don't understand that there is two types of undue noise, causing losses in Courts when legal boffins create confusion for the Magistrates and junior officers not knowing how to stand up and correct the dribble.  The first type has to do with the old spinning the wheels on the road, or revving the engine at the lights etc and the second has to do with the noise emission testing in compliance with Australian Standards.  One is linked to the other, however testing separates the two for prosecution purposes. 
a)  The first is purely a subjective test - Is the manner of operation causing the noise emitted required as part of normal operation?  Eg Did you have to rev the crap out of your engine as you spun the tyres across the intersection at the lights leaving a dirty great big friggin mess on the road you peanut? 
b)  The second has to comply with testing procedures set out by the Australian Standards when determining whether it complies with legislation.  Eg Maximum output of a vehicle happens at X revs and Australian Standards require a vehicle to be tested at Y (=75% of X) to meet a certain dBA level. 
b) is purely done by compliance testing & a) is done by the lose nut behind the wheel showing off to his mates in public.   

Terry i also know of at least three bikes around Townsville that have stamped pipes that have had baffles taken out by various owners.  I can take my antenna off the bike and poke it up the muffler to show there are no baffles, but that is not a scientific test for the Courts apparently. 



As for the difference in Filtering and Splitting bike riders are the only ones that are specific in what they mean, if you talk to my bosses there is no difference.  One is what people here refer to as filtering, the other is dangerous operation of a m/veh (at speed), or illegal/unsafe overtaking, and this is what is shown in the letter posted. 
Steve
Only the guy in the glass matters..... 
Ride on Davo it's your road now.
 

Offline Biggles

  • NatRally 2018 - Mackay
  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *
  • Posts: 14059
  • Thanked: 2508 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2012, 01:10:13 PM »
Many thanks for taking the trouble to explain the loud pipes issue. 
The bottom line, it seems, is the law is an ass.  It seems the more the legislators try to define it, the more loopholes the lawyers can find.  So I don't envy your job trying to get a charge to stick in court.  It appears it's a game played by the lawyers whose success is only governed by their ability to outsmart the judge.  I've seen Rumpole do it on TV.   :o

At least the "hooning" legislation has given the Police something definable they can prosecute.

Thanks too, for pointing out that we riders are the only ones who can see the difference between filtering and lane splitting.  No wonder it's so hard to arrive at sensible legislation or practice.

All the best in a tough job that few of us want   :thumbs
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline Brock

  • Tardis Tech
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8724
  • Thanked: 1697 times
  • White is the fastest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2012, 01:37:09 PM »
The noisy pipes is a can of worms in any state.

I have heard of Cop in NSW using an iPhone app to measure the noise, wonder how far that would go in court...

As far as I am aware in WA, there isnt a noise testing station in accordance with the standard, so bikes arent done for noisy exhausts, the riders/drivers are done for operating a vehicle in a noisy manner. :grin
Brock
Asian Correspondent
2003 Honda ST1100PY



Ulysses #32829
STOC #8239
OzSToc # ??
Kinross WA
 

Offline Marcus

  • Insert amusing quip here...
  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3099
  • Thanked: 353 times
  • It says Stringo on my shirt
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2013, 03:51:38 PM »
Hmmm I still on the fence about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g
 

Offline Shiney

  • Dave
  • Global Moderator
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6730
  • Thanked: 2337 times
  • RTE Coordinator - Strathpine, QLD
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2013, 03:58:34 PM »
Hmmm I still on the fence about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g


AWESOME... just unfortunate the chick at the end of the clip looks so disinterested :fp
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
OzSTOC #104   STOC# 8512   IBA # 59142
Find me in The Who's Who of OzSTOC!

I like shiney things :grin
One of the Dave, Dave, Dave and Duncan crew 8)
 

Offline Marcus

  • Insert amusing quip here...
  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3099
  • Thanked: 353 times
  • It says Stringo on my shirt
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2013, 04:00:55 PM »
AWESOME... just unfortunate the chick at the end of the clip looks so disinterested :fp

I know, right?
 

Offline Sean

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
  • Thanked: 6 times
  • It's somewhat brighter after the dark!!!!!
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2013, 06:04:21 PM »
I nearly fell asleep watching this. How uninspriring. What is forgotten in the lane splitting / filtering argument is that most riders who do this breach a number of rules along the way. They don't indicate, overtake on the left of a vehicle, and travel at speeds that most car drivers would not expect, thereby riding without sufficient care. Is it any wonder they get hit by cars. As usual a small number of fools bring down the wrath of government on those that try to do the right thing.
1995 ST1100P
2002 ST1100A
2004 ST1300A (Blue)

 :wht11 :dred11 :blu13
 

Offline Biggles

  • NatRally 2018 - Mackay
  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *
  • Posts: 14059
  • Thanked: 2508 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2013, 06:10:40 PM »
Looks to me like Maurice Blackburn are trying to win the hearts and minds of motorcyclists.
The chick is probably a MB lawyer.  That explains why she is so excitable.
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline Sicman

  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2984
  • Thanked: 590 times
  • Was here when the lights got turned on :-)
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2013, 08:31:35 PM »
IMHO filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really. You wont get where you are going much faster than if you just sit in a lane and ride patiently with the traffic flow. I remember reading an article re traffic flow that said " That if letting a car merge in front of you adds 30 seconds to your journey then the average trip to work in a capital city in Australia would only be extended by 10 minutes in a worse case scenario".  8)
If you really need to be there a few mins earlier then leave earlier  Wot thuh
Cheers
Tony
FarRider 802
NatRally's - 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 202🤬, 2🤬21, 2021/22 Black Dog bit me, 2023
Experience trumps assumption :-)
 

Offline Brock

  • Tardis Tech
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8724
  • Thanked: 1697 times
  • White is the fastest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2013, 08:41:54 PM »
Quote
filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really

Cant quite agree with that, there is a piece of road here in the west, that is a major bottle neck around 0800. Its a piece of road approx 5 ks between traffic lights where 2 or 3 vehicles move every light change. I filtered the whole length, and saved a wait of 1/2 an hour, the whole trip from Pearce to Jandakot normally takes 45 minutes, it would have take about 80 minutes had I not filtered through.
Brock
Asian Correspondent
2003 Honda ST1100PY



Ulysses #32829
STOC #8239
OzSToc # ??
Kinross WA
 

Offline Sicman

  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2984
  • Thanked: 590 times
  • Was here when the lights got turned on :-)
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2013, 08:50:08 PM »
Quote
filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really

Cant quite agree with that, there is a piece of road here in the west, that is a major bottle neck around 0800. Its a piece of road approx 5 ks between traffic lights where 2 or 3 vehicles move every light change. I filtered the whole length, and saved a wait of 1/2 an hour, the whole trip from Pearce to Jandakot normally takes 45 minutes, it would have take about 80 minutes had I not filtered through.
And increased your risk of an accident at the same time  :fp Thats never gunna make sense - No wonder we have stupid words like Smidsy when people ride outside the skill set of the average motorist
Cheers
Tony
FarRider 802
NatRally's - 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 202🤬, 2🤬21, 2021/22 Black Dog bit me, 2023
Experience trumps assumption :-)
 

Offline ST2UP

  • The Pockey Poker ;)
  • Administrator
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5600
  • Thanked: 1315 times
  • Guyra - NSW
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2013, 09:03:04 PM »
Seams this is a simple case of Risk Vs. Gain...... What are you prepared to Risk and for what Gain ??

Are you prepared to risk your property as well as other people's ??? In addition to your welfare ??


That's why we are all individuals  :-++



Cheers
Chris    



IBA #64116   FarRider #660   Ulysses #56339

st2up@ozstoc.com

Mbl: 0428792425

Sighted it....Wanted it...Chucked a fit...GOT IT !!!!
 

Offline Brock

  • Tardis Tech
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 8724
  • Thanked: 1697 times
  • White is the fastest
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2013, 09:54:33 PM »
Very low risk, the traffic was stationary and there was room to move.
Brock
Asian Correspondent
2003 Honda ST1100PY



Ulysses #32829
STOC #8239
OzSToc # ??
Kinross WA
 

Offline johnnyYTED

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2237
  • Thanked: 832 times
  • STranger 1100 n BEEstY 1330cc
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2013, 10:54:21 PM »
 :dred11
 I only 'fliter' usually when I'm at a set of lights that I know take a long time to change,eg when they have to go thru turning lanes then thru traffic,and I have a lot of cars ahead of me,,, a few times I have forgotten I have the trailer on and have been lucky not to have collided between cars.  I usually remember the trailer when I am lining up mirrors...   luckily for me I am going slow enough to hit the skids in time to stop, :fp  :dred11
Picton  if it doesn’t flood higher than previous times.
mobile 047 4488 436 
IBA#59147, FarRider #732
STranger 1998 ST1100, x Police
STrangler ST1300 2007 Charcoal Grey.
BEEstY 2017 Can-Am Daytona 1330.
maybe something with a little extra
:dred11 :Spyder
 

Offline Biggles

  • NatRally 2018 - Mackay
  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *
  • Posts: 14059
  • Thanked: 2508 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: Filtering - Lane Splitting
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2013, 10:22:49 AM »
Filtering with a trailer in tow!  That's another step up I hadn't thought of!    :eek

The STs have enough trouble as it is with our mirrors almost exactly at the same level as most car mirrors.
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927