Planning My First Saddlesore 1600km/24Hours

[Sicman]

I look at it this way:-
Some people walk to work, some people complete walking marathons.
Some people ride the train to work, some people travel across Australia on the train.
Some people drive to work, some people drive across Australia.

Every body starts out at a base level of competence. Sometimes people get a real passion for their activity and plan, train and educate themselves about how they can reach the pinnacle of their chosen activity.
Also everyone has a different tolerance to how far they can go depending on the rest, fuel, workload they give their body.

When I started riding 4 years ago I was flat out riding down the street. Now I can ride 700kms in day with a few stops. I hope one day I will be able to competently ride even further distances safely

Cheers
 

[SToz]

My observation regarding fatigue on the M/C is that its effects are quite different to those experienced by car drivers.  The car driver is in a snug lounge chair with little to do but steer, and that very easily.  Nodding off, while quite possibly inadvertently accelerating, is almost inevitable.

I know what it feels like to be tired on the bike and in the car and I know which is less threatening.

Couldn't agree more Biggles.

For a long trip when fatigue can/could come into play.....give me the bike any day....just the smell of 3 day old roadkill is enough to keep you awake

The car is just tooooooo comfy for long days.

[alans1100]

....just the smell of 3 day old roadkill is enough to keep you awake

Or you ride past the bloated dead bull/cow beside the road and hoping it stays that way as you ride past.

[tj189]

As a Motorcycle Group we should be encouraging safety and not promoting potentially dangerous practices.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resources/Internet/news%20and%20alerts/campaigns/fatalfive/documents/fatigue_fs.pdf

Sabie,

Firstly, thanks for posting up the link on fatigue, I think that every motorcycle rider should read it.  Soooo along these lines I would like to take the opportunity to add another link to a document titled Fatigue and Motorcycle Riding by Don Arthur M.D. , Dr. Don Arthur published an article dedicated to Fatigue and Motorcycle Touring. Vice Adm (Dr.) Arthur is a well known Long Distance motorcyclist and the 35th Surgeon General of the U.S. Navy.
http://www.mctourer.com/Safety/fatigue.html

I would encourage all motorcyclists to read these documents.  Again thanks for highlighting the link 

Unfortunately, I am unable to see where on this forum you have identified that as a group we are not encouraging safety or where on the forum you have seen the promotion of dangerous practices.  Your opinion is noted and thanks for sharing but I disagree.

As a member of the Iron Butt Association (IBA) and a FarRider, I and I would suggest other members of these organisations actually take very seriously the concept of safe, long distance riding.  A quote from the IBA web site:

"The 50,000+ members of the Iron Butt Association are dedicated to safe, long-distance motorcycle riding. Although based in the United States, we have thousands of enthusiastic members throughout the globe! " 

From the FarRiders web site:

"Please note: We are not about speed-records! Our aim is purely at safe and consistent long distance riding! We will not accept "hoons" or "cowboys"! "

Interestingly I also see a lot of support from this forum promoting safe long distance riding as can be seen from this link:
http://ozstoc.com/index.php?board=48.0  well done QzSTOC on supporting long distance riding 

Now you said:
"Take a look back at what I said..... It's potentially dangerous, that is it has the potential to cause danger."
Driving a car, truck, horse and carriage, a motor boat, motorcycle...the list goes on, has the potential to cause danger....you are correct.  Are you willing to stop riding your motorcycle as it and you have the potential to cause danger?  I think not. 

To me, long distance riding is my sport.  I train, I learn as much as I can about myself, my motorcycle, about fatigue management, about nutrition and how it can assist in fatigue management, about what I can do with my motorcycle to assist in minimising fatigue, about hydration to assist in fatigue management, about planning a ride to assist in fatigue management, about the type of gear I ride in and how it can assist in fatigue management...have i mentioned fatigue management?

There are numerous resources regarding long distance riding all worth the read, if you so desire and I would encourage anyone attempting this sport to educate themselves by reading and re reading the material available.  Then when you have read the material, hop onto sites like the IBA, FarRiders or OzSTOC and learn some more about safe long distance riding by reading their exploits and asking questions.

All in all Sabie I appreciate that you have raised your opinion that this forum is not encouraging safety and that the forum is promoting potentially dangerous practices, well mate, I disagree. I believe that OzSTOC does encourage safe long distance riding and that there is no promotion of potentially dangerous practices.  This is of course is my opinion and I thank you for letting me share it.

....and if I go to Biloela I will be the second to by you a drink 

[Streak]

Well I have to say to everyone, I am very proud of all of your posts as i have been reading this discussion, it has been mature, upbeat, and feels like we are all sitting around a table having a quiet beer having a good chat.

We can all agree to disagree in what we think about long distance riding, I think Sabie has an excellent point about setting the example for OzSTOC, and who we are, and he has posted very valid points to do with fatigue management.

Diesel & TJ also raise excellent points about testing yourself, and trying something different, which is want I am intending to do.

Farriders & and the IBA do their level best to fly under the radar, as they are always mindful of people getting the wrong impression, and also not understanding the preparation, planning & practice that goes into what they do.

We have a strong relationship with Farriders, being that both clubs share a large number of our member base, we actively promote upcoming farrides around the country, and will continue to do so, just like we promote Ulysses AGM, and various other events that OzSTOC members attend.

If someone is looking for advice on doing a long distance ride, regardless of the reasons why, we will not stop someone from posting and asking the question, as that would not be doing the right thing, as we have a wealth of experience in this club that will help people do things safely and help them decide if they want to go ahead with it, which is what I am doing, deciding how and if I would do it.

There is nothing more important than getting home safe and sound, and that message above all is what is playing out of this conversation, and should not get lost at anytime.

Cheers

Streak (Graham)

[Sabie]

Well said Streak. 

[Shiney]

I'm not a FarRider or IBA guy but I thought I'd put forward my thoughts and little experience on this subject.

I ride almost every day but most of the time it is very short distances.
Last year the furthest I had ridden was 500 km in a day and at the end of that I was a wreck (very fatigued) and so when I decided to ride to SA for the national rally I was aware that I couldn't ride very far before I started to feel the effects of fatigue.

So to improve my energy levels and distance I could travel before I started to feel fatigue I started to train myself.
I started riding longer and longer distances until I was able to ride the 500 km without feeling fatigued at the end. (I started at 200km and worked up from there 50 or 100km each time)
By the end of the rally (Last day heading home) I rode 1000km and amazingly I wasn't fatigued.

So as I see it (and have experienced it) through training and proper breaks I believe LD riding can be done very safely.

And I already owe Sabie a Canadian Club and Coke at the next rally (he beet me to 1000 posts ) at this rate mate you wont have to by any drinks

Cheers
Shiney

[Sabie]

 

[tj189]

Mate,  I am sure I did not miss the point that you thought you were alluding to, as i agree with you that fatigue kills.  What has been missing is what we do to manage this killer.  I notice you raise another very good point that some businesses have picked up on using a fatigue calculator so please do not forget that people also start to drive or ride when they are already fatigued. This is why it is so imperative that we all understand what this is about and how we manage it.

So sorry Sabie, I did not miss the point. 

What stood out in my mind was your opinion of this forum. 

I worked at a place that had a motto, "Knowledge dispels fear"  I kinda like it, and think it is self explanatory.

 

[ST2UP]

Very informative absorbing both sides of this debat, both camps have some points worthwhile adding to my knowledge pool on this subject.

In my professional life I manage my Fatigue on more working days than many people. A combination of succesive rostered shifts with on-call between all of them for between 7 and 10 days straight equates to Fatigue Managment and Mitigation being apart of our family life.

Whilst I agree that Fatigue is a threat, I would suggest from experience that it's ACCUMULATIVE Fatigue that is the real issue.

As an novice FarRider I can atest to being more relaxed, capable and situational aware during a FarRide than at any other unplanned event that has the potential to become an issue.

A long distance ride.....and in this case a FarRide or IBA is a ride that is planned, calculated and prepared for well in advance of the actual once off event you develop a holistic approach to your preparation of mind, body and equipment. This includes short term lifestyle changes, correct sustenance and quality uninterrupted rest.

Accumulative Fatigue is a far greater issue that has more potential to become life threatening to you or those about you in any situation not managed correctly. This form of Fatigue becomes an issue when constantly backing up day after day with out repaying the rest/sleep depravasion debt.


I can assure you, with the amount of time I spend on the road at all hours, I feel far more at peace when travelling either with work or the family, passing a prepared FarRider coming to the end of a Saddlsore 1600km at 0100 in the morning than a working mum who bundles her tired, wingeing children into the family Tarago on a friday night after a herendous working week to drive from Sydney to Brisbane over a long weekend. 


Anyway my informed 2cents worth, don't worry Sabie I still feel the love.....


  everyone

[Biggles]

Now we're heading back on track, another bit of advice I'd add is the adage
"Sugar Makes You Sleepy".
There's an article on it I read somewhere. 

My choice of road snacks includes roasted almonds.  I gave Diesel and saaz a taste of these at Middleton.
I buy the blanched almonds from Coles and roast them to my taste (180^o for 30 minutes).

And no, Streak, Choc Coated Scorched Almonds don't count!!

[Rob Mc]

This has been a very thoughtful and informative discussion and I admire Sabie for expressing his opinions on this subject and holding to his beliefs. Personally I have no desire to complete these LD runs and although I do not believe we promote unsafe practices , I believe Sabie made a very well structured argument and many valid points.
Rob

[gaz]

agreed 

[RexJ]

May I just add a little bit?

The words 'common' sense come into play with anyone who rides, or drives.
I have a mate who rode his bike straight into the side of a crew cab ute, basically because he 'had the right of way', and the other guy broke the law and usurped his right of way. My mate wrists are still useless, and his career as a male nurse is at an end. The bikes gone, as he has no strength in his wrists to operate it.   A killer of an attitude he displayed did it.

He was upset when I told him he was 80% to blame, because he asserted attitude of arrogance, over an attitude of humility in common sense. You ride a bike - you drive everything around you.

We all know being 'in the right' means zip outside a court room. Yelling abuse, in a headset at someone else who asserted unrighteous lack of grace, or illegality in front of you, and backing off is the only way to 'go home safely.' If you can't do that, then get off the bike - you're going to die if you don't.

This common sense applies to long distance riding. Meeting a challenge properly prepped up for it is cool. At the end of the day it's ' Challenge met - challenge owned !!!' Home safely.

I've had 28+ years on the highway, mainly long distance. 16 years out of Perth, where every trip is a 'Far ride.'  Year 28 was just as dangerous as year one. You go home safely if you leave home safely prepared.  My last job was 81 tonne road train, Brisbane, Tully, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, twice a month. 12,600 kms per trip, under satellite track and fatigue management, all quite legally.

I used to come home tired, but not stuffed because I planned each leg before I started the leg. That's the second consideration. Planning and preparation for the ride. And check you own health as well. If you feel crappy - don't go.

The common thread is do it safely, and come home and post a brag.

I've riden a 650 ex W.A. Police Yamaha back to Bris from Perth, and I can think of few things in my life that were so much fun. CANNOT wait to do it, and more, again.

[Biggles]

Anyone wanting to get serious about Long Distance Riding might like to take notes from this bike in this year's Iron Butt Rally that commence at midnight tonight.



and that's just the front end!  There's lots more at the back of these bikes, mostly radios and fuel cells.

[Gatey]

So Streak Did you end up getting time for this ride yet or have I missed it in another part of the forum?

I've just completed another 1600 documented and one just for the play a couple of weeks back going to the Overland corner lunch then stacked another on the back of that day running into the next.

After reading all this thread again I noticed no one had made mention of just how long a 1600 takes or how it can be broken up. Indeed how the distance is covered in adequate time and with rest.

Most of the time If the weather is fine and not at either extreme then doing the trip in one stint is my MO. Say depart at 04:00 should see the trip finished by 23:30 subject to stopped times.
That's 191/2 hours all up for everything me or the bike needs in the day. Lets put it another way. A work day might start at 05:00 out of bed.and finish at typically into bed by 22:30. That's 17.5 hours. The bike trip is only two hours longer and I'm not sure about your work but mine is much harder than the time I spend on a bike. Reasoning says I'm in a better way on the bike than working.
Now with 19,1/2 hours of fuels and feed stops and riding I'm still 4.5 hrs in the black. So clearly I'm not riding the bike for a full 24 hours for 1600 K's. Even a 2000 doesn't use all the 24 hours.

The second trip, the one after lunch saw me all the way to Melrose then parked up in Robe all the way south for a few hour's SLEEP. Then A second stage to finish the ride of 1612 K's using all the 24 hours.
See sleep for a few hours is more than doable on a1600. I've done it a few times that way for any number of reasons and still done the distance and in the time. And without fatigue even getting a chance to start.

I've also pulled the pin a few times too. And that's what needs to be remembered in all this. You can just stop all together or just for a bit.

[saaz]

That last point about pulling the pin on a ride is well worth repeating.  I think anyone who makes that decision deserves more credit than if they try and continue on when they should not.

[Gatey]

Too true Saaz

I think I've done the push on mindset, the pull the pin and stop set and the pull the pin and rest for an hour or so then "toured"the rest of the planned route too.

The first was a matter of still going OK but not being confident for a bit about the success or otherwise of the trip to that point Hence why guys like to use a GPS. Deal in facts not the wotif's. Self doubt and wotifs are distracting unless you grab the thing by the small bits and just get that stage into better perspective.

Pull the pin and stop the ride is the defining end of the ride. Get a room and shower up, take a light meal and sleep. Start the next day fresh and design a new plan that is not on the clock.

Pull the pin and tour the route is different. Its about recognising the ride or route are no longer fun and present unacceptable risk to push on, both mentally and in the physical form too. It's more mental to just pull up at the next town or feature and rest up rethink the ride into a less stressful thing. After all this should not be let get to a stress thing but supposed to be fun. If the fun starts going out then I stop and re evaluate how I've been going and then restart without any further documentation at all. I throw out everything doc's wise at that point into a bin.
On occasion I've had a spell then gone on to finish the route and taken heaps of pics and stopped for a nice meal or looked in a gallery or whatever and got to the end of the route with time. So what?
I got a ride anyway and maybe had a nice look about without the attendant performance pressure.

[Biggles]

Even a 2000 doesn't use all the 24 hours.

That's one of the harder ones to do.  As I found going to Middleton, it's 23.5 hours with only rest stops. A power-nap at 20 hours will see you through, but you need all the 110 kay roads you can find.  Plan A was to stay on the South East freeway from Tailem Bend to the Strathalbyn turn-off, then finish at Strathalbyn.  A check on the time at Tailem Bend made the Wellington Ferry feasible and hence Middleton became the end of the challenge at 2042 km.

[Wombattle]

STreak just get physically and mentally ready for it. Get off the turps, drugs and coffee leading up to it. Get a couple of good nights sleep and ride your chosen route. Don't fart about early in the ride i.e. Bank some k's and as much time as you can. Don't talk to weirdos in servos, don't tell anyone what you are doing. Just stay focused and keep your stops as short as humanly possible. That way you'll be banking time for more rest/stops later in the ride if you need it.

Take your food and water with you and for a day ride you won't need much that way you can eat whenever you need to stop without moving your bike or without having to worry if there's a shop when you need a break.

I've ridden the same SS1600k route three times with different people. Those who fart about take 19 hrs to get it done.  Those who stay focused do it in 17 at the same moving average. The route has 6 fuel stops and 1 corner docket and that's where the time differences happen.

You do need a plan that at the very least tells you what time you need to leave a location by to finish the ride within the time. That way if you need to rest you will know how long you have available or you can make the call to end it. Your plan should also include where you fuel up and/or have to get a corner dockets if your route is complex. It helps not to have to think about that stuff too much on the fly and for me breaking the ride up into discreet chunks makes it go more smoothly.

The guys are right, you aren't pushed for time with a 1600k day but that doesn't mean you should waste any of it. On the right bike (and the ST is) with the right approach/frame of mind it'll be over before you know it.

As for fatigue and fatigue management. Just make smart decisions along the way based on your own common sense. Opinions about whether or not the activity is safe are irrelevant because the only opinion that matters at any point in time in your ride is your own. The decision to embark on the ride is also your own. So when you start you've already decided you can do it safely or are prepared to stop. Otherwise you'd just be being a little bit silly and it's not for me to have an opinion on that!

[Streak]

I have deleted all comments that have been posted today that did not apply to my plans of a 1600km iron butt ride, this is not a competition about who is right and wrong, but simply put, this is about my ride, so we will leave the conversations at that.

[Bluey]

I agree, back to your ride.

There will always be some risk, but good planning and skillful execution will always help to reduce that risk, We ride!

If this hasn't already been said, try to avoid mixing with too much traffic. Both towns and turns slow you down. The coast road down to Ballina is wonderful (some roadworks near Byron and 10 kms south. Looks like a new tunnel), but after Ballina you then have to contend with getting over the divide. The run up/down the coast below Ballina is particularly bad at the moment, lots of roadworks, from my recent experience. I would normally avoid the coast road if riding/driving to a schedule. Can also be a lot of rubber-neckers and other local traffic.

If you get out onto the Newell Hwy, it is possible to cover some large, uninterrupted distances. Much of it at a legal 110 kph. Mostly good roads too (as of Oct 2013 - car to Melbourne and back).

I like the New England Hwy. Always a good run up or down, but lots of k'roos in places, from what I could see.

Best of luck with this.