OzSTOC
Honda ST1100 Section => Brakes & Clutch ST1100 => Topic started by: Garry_Coates on November 16, 2022, 08:13:08 PM
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Hi,
my ABS has not worked for the last 100,000 km and I am now running Battlax T32 GTs with different widths and profile so the TCS has to be turned off (even though it does not work) to stop flashing. Has anybody done a write-up on removing everything related to the ABS/TCS?
I also will probably need to do this to get through yearly roadworthys that are being proposed in Victoria. What do ST owners in NSW currently do to get through a roadworthy?
Regards
Garry
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Not sure but don't think you will get through a roadworthy if original safety equipment isn't working. I had trouble with the radiator level switch failure resulting in a red light on the dash.
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I also will probably need to do this to get through yearly roadworthys that are being proposed in Victoria.
I'll believe that when I see it.
I know the VACC is pushing for them but, as far as I know, the Department of Transport aren't interested... :think1
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Thanks guys,
A future roadworthy (all vehicles over 8 years) is coming, probably as a wedge to move people to electric motorcycle/cars. I would like to get the ST1100 in similar shape to a non-ABS to have a chance of meeting a roadworthy. I am still quite attached to it. A complete replacement of hoses is planned so I will do it then.
Regards
Garry
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Thanks guys,
A future roadworthy (all vehicles over 8 years) is coming, probably as a wedge to move people to electric motorcycle/cars. I would like to get the ST1100 in similar shape to a non-ABS to have a chance of meeting a roadworthy. I am still quite attached to it. A complete replacement of hoses is planned so I will do it then.
Regards
Garry
Long time now since I worked for RTA, VicRoads and now DoT, attitudes may have changed and compulsory annual (or the like) RWCs may be back on the drawing board. Previous management attitude was that due to insufficient evidence to indicate that unroadworthy vehicles were over-represented in motor vehicle crashes, ie. it wasn't a high priority.
I was part of a working group looking at this, and was surprised (as were the others) that the evidence just didn't stack-up. We also looked at what other States were doing. I recall that the advice from our colleagues in NSW is that they were looking at abandoning their annual system and going to a bi-annual, or less, system, but the reason they were not proceeding was due to the backlash forecast from the testers and repairers.
Another factor that needs to be taken into account is that DoT would need to engage more staff to process all of the documentation (electronic or paper - the former, one would hope these days). In this day and age when DoT is looking at out-sourcing rego & licencing, it would be counter-productive to any business model, and make a "sale" less attractive.
My prediction is that we all be safe from annual RWC requirements in VIC.
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Thanks guys. I am still interested in whether anybody else has removed all the ABS/TCS gear from an ABS1 model.
My understanding of what needs to be removed:
1. Sensors
2. Rings
3. Modulators
4. ECU
5. Switches
5. Light bulbs
6. ABS fuses
7. Relays
8. Associated wiring
regards
Garry
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My prediction is that we all be safe from annual RWC requirements in VIC.
I agree... :thumbs
I reckon VACC are pushing for it just to drum up extra work for their members.
I remember years back Vicroads said in a road safety submission that unroadworthy vehicles accounted for just 1.1% of vehicles involved in crashes.
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Guys if I wanted to move to NSW or sell my ST1100 I would need to get a roadworthy. Vehicles with flashing warning lights usually fail. Somebody out there must have already faced this problem.
Regards
Garry
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You can always sell your ST without a roadworthy... :thumb
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In all my years on here, I havent heard of anyone removing the ABS TCS. The major problem probably is the computer..The mechanicals and wiring are easy.
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You can always sell your ST without a roadworthy... :thumb
But without the ABS operating, it would likely be very difficult for the buyer to get an RWC, the ST would then probably only be useful for parts.
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In all my years on here, I haven't heard of anyone removing the ABS TCS...
Me either. And I don't fully understand Garry's reasoning for this action, apart from ...
... my ABS has not worked for the last 100,000 km ...
Surely it'd be easier, less fuss, straight forward in getting the ABS working. What part of the story don't I (and others) understand, Gary?
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Guys,
as you know keeping a bike long term is a balance of living with issues and back ordering parts to fix essential things. The ABS system on the ST is full of parts no longer available or worth more than the cost of the bike.
The problem I have had since 1995 is the ABS modulators. They cost $3-4k each if you can get them and have no spare parts. I am aware of only one person in Canada (Norm) who has a track record of repairing them. Fix them and maybe there other problems.
It is a rabbit hole I am not prepared to go down as I prefer to ride my bikes not spend months working on them. I would consider it if someone offers that service in Australia for a reasonable price. So far no luck on that.
I understand the ABS system can be removed because people have run the bike even when the ECU has failed. It is only for the ABS/TCS.
If there is nobody on this forum that has removed the ABS/TCS or got the ABS1 through a roadworthy with problems, then lets leave it at that.
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In conclusion:
1. I have talked to classic bike shops and confirmed that my ST1100 would not pass a roadworthy with the ABS is it stands. These guys do their best in getting early model bikes with ABS through, but have to provide video evidence of its operation. They gave me some suggestions in confidence that I will follow up on.
2. If I remove the ABS/TCS components I should get a roadworthy and then adjust the registration and insurance accordingly. This is to ensure no inconsistenies in case of a serious accident. Third party insurance is a significant safety net in Australia.
3. Removing the ABS/TCS could result in the bike being considered as "modified". I would need a VASS engineer to certify it (at cost) before a roadworthy would be given
4. Taking my bike for a roadworthy with ABS or with ABS removed (and no certification) would need a very understanding shop prepared to fudge things little. Then it would all the depend on Vic Roads playing hardball.
5. Removal of the ABS/TCS on a ST1100 has been done before. One example I can find on in NZ. Refer: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1100-abs-or-no-abs.167483/ (https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/st1100-abs-or-no-abs.167483/)
"Someone mentioned their ABS failed so they removed it. I've ridden a bike like that here in New Zealand. To remain legal and pass the safety inspection all ABS components have to be removed and there must be no sign that the bike could possibly have ABS in order to pass the safety inspection. Honda charged about $NZ2000 for this work on the bike I rode, including new certification for the modified bike".
Regards
Garry
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Option 2 sounds like a winner... (make it a non-ABS ST1100)
Remove all physical components that activate when ABS is tripped (The sensors, rings etc attached to the wheels/brakes) and replace the Dash with one from a non-ABS ST1100.
The wiring, ECU, Relays etc that are under the plastic should be fine to be left alone as they can't activate any physical components (since you removed them).
Maybe ?
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Hi Shiney,
a VASS engineer would disagree with you based on a phone call just had. He was pretty adamant about removing all evidence. I probably would try without replacing the dash, just pulling the circuits.
One key bit of info missing is how well known is this model to Vic Roads and other equivalents? My registration makes no reference to ABS/TCS. If they do not know/check the whole thing gets simpler. It probably does not contravene ADRs based on this phone call.
So we need a helpful person who works with Vic Roads to quietly confirm whether their system knows this model/year has ABS.
Regards
Garry
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Guys,
as you know keeping a bike long term is a balance of living with issues and back ordering parts to fix essential things. The ABS system on the ST is full of parts no longer available or worth more than the cost of the bike.
The problem I have had since 1995 is the ABS modulators. They cost $3-4k each if you can get them and have no spare parts. I am aware of only one person in Canada (Norm) who has a track record of repairing them. Fix them and maybe there other problems.
It is not a rabbit hole I am not prepared to go down as I prefer to ride my bikes not spend months working on them. I would consider it if someone offers that service in Australia for a reasonable price. So far no luck on that.
I understand the ABS system can be removed because people have run the bike even when the ECU has failed. It is only for the ABS/TCS.
If there is nobody on this forum that has removed the ABS/TCS or got the ABS1 through a roadworthy with problems, then lets leave it at that.
Now that you explain that way, I can see your logic.
Hi Shiney,
a VASS engineer would disagree with you based on a phone call just had. He was pretty adamant about removing all evidence. I probably would try without replacing the dash, just pulling the circuits.
One key bit of info missing is how well known is this model to Vic Roads and other equivalents? My registration makes no reference to ABS/TCS. If they do not know/check the whole thing gets simpler. It probably does not contravene ADRs based on this phone call.
So we need a helpful person who works with Vic Roads to quietly confirm whether their system knows this model/year has ABS.
Regards
Garry
Having spent time in VicRoads rego and licensing, I don't think anyone there will be wise, experienced, knowledgeable enough to know anything re. ST1100 (or ST1300) with or without ABS to create any difficulties for you. Any difficulty may be at the RWC testing / issuing level.
All of the responsibility rests with the tester, taking any short cuts in the process will be all fine until the shit-hits-the-fan, ie. a crash, an investigation, the RWC (may be) audited. If the tester is found to have taken a short-cut, they could loose their RWC testing licence, fined, end up at the coroner's court, possibly a corporate fine, loose a lot of their livelihood.
Was talking to a couple of licence testing guys next to my place of work a couple years back, they take their RWC responsibility very, very seriously, and I get the impression that they wouldn't get involved in anything shady.
Re. the ST1100, if it's an ABS model, the RWC tester will be able to identify it as such through the VIN, and if it's no longer an ABS bike, I think this is when your troubles would really start.
If you've been riding as it is for the past 100,000km, perhaps leave it as it is for the next 100,000km, only worry about the change if / when annual RWC are introduced in VIC.
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Hi Williamson,
thanks for the feedback. Now that I have confirmed that ABS removal is doable and how to get a RWC in that instance, it will be left on hold until required. I have also sorted out the traction control problem so it is less irritating.
Regards
Garry
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Wouldn't it just be easier to buy another ST and swap parts over? :think1
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Regarding Vicroads, my wife Sue worked for them some years back and she doesn't recall anything about listing ABS...
This is the form they use when a motorcycle is registered for the first time or when the registration has lapsed for longer than 3 months: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/-/media/files/formsandpublications/registration/vehicle_registration_form.ashx (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/-/media/files/formsandpublications/registration/vehicle_registration_form.ashx)
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Wouldn't it just be easier to buy another ST and swap parts over? :think1
I have had this bike from new and it is like a long term friend. Would you swap your wife over if she has a few problems? I may buy another low mileage ST1100 once I get this one over 300,000km or die trying. Probably an ABS2.
Regards
Garry
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Actually, I did swap my wife over for another one some years back as the first one definitely had a few problems... :whistle :rofl
Being serious for a moment...re getting another ST, I actually meant you could swap useable bits from it over to your current ST.... :thumbsup
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I do get spare parts when I can from other ST1100s. The problem with the ABS1 abs components is they have all been taken to fix other bikes. I have permanent ebay searches for ABS1 abs components that no longer find anything. I also follow Ozstoc sales. Bikesales.com.au rarely show an ABS1 for sale. The only one currently there at the moment is incorrectly named as it is a 1990 non-abs.
What I would like to do is get some old ABS1 moduators to have a play with them and maybe send them to Canada to get repaired. If that works I would have backup spare parts for the next time they fail.
So any relevant parts would be gratefully received.
Regards
Garry
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There's a 97 ST1100 on gumtree...is that any good?
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/redland-bay/motorcycles/honda-st1100-1997/1298148077 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/redland-bay/motorcycles/honda-st1100-1997/1298148077)
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No only models to 1995 have the same ABS components. Called the ABS1. After that ABS2 with different abs component partnumbers
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The VIN identifies which Honda ST1100 model has ABS by using the production sequence number. Those starting with 55 are ST1100 ABS versions.
Refer: https://www.hondashop.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Honda-Motorcycle-Model-ID-Chart.pdf (https://www.hondashop.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Honda-Motorcycle-Model-ID-Chart.pdf)
For 1995:
ST1100AS SC26U*SM550001~
ST1100PS SC26U*SM580001~
ST1100S SC26U*SM500001~
This is a great chart for future reference.
Regards
Garry
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The problem with the ABS1 abs components is they have all been taken to fix other bikes. I have permanent ebay searches for ABS1 abs components that no longer find anything.
I've been keeping my eyes open for a rear sensor for my 1995 1100. I'd have better luck finding a Tasmanian Tiger!
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Hi DaleAP,
the rear sensor is common to ABS2 models as well. You can still buy them, refer: https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-st1100a-1995-s-australia_model4639/sensor-wheel-spd_38510maj781/ (https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-st1100a-1995-s-australia_model4639/sensor-wheel-spd_38510maj781/)
But at $500 delivered you would have to be certain the rest of the ABS system is good as a new modulator/ ecu is worth the value of the bike.
Good luck.
Regards
Garry
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Thanks for the link. Yeah, they're pricey. :eek
Well I know the sensor needs replacing as it has had a deep groove cut in the the end by the ring gear. Once that's sorted I'll know if there are any other issues.
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Hi DaleAP,
my rear sensor also has a wear groove. The wear is apparently normal talking to a honda mechanic. If it works, clean it, check the airgap and leave it would be my suggestion. It not working after that is a different story.
Regards
Garry
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Hi DaleAP,
if you are adventurous please look at Honda Pan European ST1100 Rebuild (3/4) ABS rear sensor. Refer youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJDAhVeCUvY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJDAhVeCUvY)
The honywell sensor 1GT101DC is still available on ebay.
OR a modified honda sensor refer:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/385112266754?hash=item59aa7ad802:g:at0AAOSwQY9eQx2f&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNwG0Vqj66y8Nb7TvXiEFxNHOWFkzWFyZJe5WX5kp%2FtoBtDOY6vTbQM2IJN49Rs35pWzuP3JVDiLM02efhJ2NC1xePrfvLrfzClyUbwar4q3Ea%2Fcn69EU38xoThViFCaMv%2FjxARkpz0qLG09vMtKV17M%2Bq2LZ7y78EgSINciqutM4ZYycmBsC0FX41cAvH4SwvMuPp2SEidTCeJQLmjc3Zk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5jjlt-VYQ (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/385112266754?hash=item59aa7ad802:g:at0AAOSwQY9eQx2f&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNwG0Vqj66y8Nb7TvXiEFxNHOWFkzWFyZJe5WX5kp%2FtoBtDOY6vTbQM2IJN49Rs35pWzuP3JVDiLM02efhJ2NC1xePrfvLrfzClyUbwar4q3Ea%2Fcn69EU38xoThViFCaMv%2FjxARkpz0qLG09vMtKV17M%2Bq2LZ7y78EgSINciqutM4ZYycmBsC0FX41cAvH4SwvMuPp2SEidTCeJQLmjc3Zk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5jjlt-VYQ)
Regards
Garry