Trouble starting engine cold

[doggy & Nola]

Hi I have a ST 1300 2008 pan European.
I’ve just clocked up 86,000 km. Never has it had a problem in that period.
Just recently it is being difficult to start first up as in after been sitting for a day or so.
I turn the key on always wait for the fuel pump to stop hit the starter and it starts.
Now when I hit the starter it seems to fire on a cylinder or two open the throttle close the throttle try again then it will start and run fine any ideas would be muchly appreciated ?.
cheers to all safe riding

[Shiney]

  I would start with checking the battery & sparkplugs.

[Biggles]

Sounds like it cranks OK, so I'd go with plugs.  A couple of them are hard to get at...   

[Brock]

Check battery voltage while cranking, if less than 10 volts the battery doesnt have any capacity left to run the computer/ignition system. How old is the battery..  Try jump starting from your car. If it fires up, the battery she is flattery.

[doggy & Nola]

It will end up starting after two or three tries and run fine
Fast Idles then slows down to a idle  once it warms

[StinkyPete]

I assume you are cranking it with the throttle closed.    Sorry if it's a "suck eggs" suggestion. 

[doggy & Nola]

Yes I always do .  now I try everything open throttle clothes throttle until it does eventually start

[doggy & Nola]

 
hey all thank you for your input.
I did 350km on Saturday new tank of fuel.
then Sunday morning it started st8 up no problem.
so perhaps it was just cook fuel ?.

[Biggles]

Yep.  It's seldom the ST that's at fault.  Usually something that's been done to it, such as "cook" fuel.   

[CallMeSteve]

I had a tank of 91 once that did that.

[Biggles]

I had a tank of 91 once that did that.

Rubina only ever gets 91, like her antecedents.  She laps it up.

[CallMeSteve]

Yeah me too now.  I agree with you that premium fuel doesnt seem to make a sausage of difference, apart from perhaps cleaning the engine (and even that might be advertising waffle).   I had just one tank of bad fuel.  Generally 91 is fine.

[Brock]

Some years ago I used to run a detailed spread sheet of fuel usage, costs etc. I had a lot of data for the 1100, were I ran 91, 95, ultra, E10 etc for several months to have stable usage figures. The only fifference after thousands of ks was in the $$$$ per Kilometer. 91 won out...

[Biggles]

Yeah me too now.  I agree with you that premium fuel doesnt seem to make a sausage of difference, apart from perhaps cleaning the engine (and even that might be advertising waffle).

Every now and then I put 125ml of Moreys Injector Cleaner into a full tank to do any house-cleaning that Rubina deems necessary.  Like my Missus- "Isn't this the fortnight that you vacuum the house?"

[ruSTynutz]

I run 98 in my ST although with the price of fuel these days I might have to reconsider that... 

[Biggles]

I run 98 in my ST although with the price of fuel these days I might have to reconsider that... 

This issue is done to death elsewhere, but the short summary is, if your compression ratio is low enough that RON 91 doesn't ping, you gain nothing by using 95 or 98.  The energy in the fuels is the same, regardless of what the peddlers claim- the difference is in the ability of the high compression engines to extract more power.  If you ain't got the compression, you ain't gonna get the power, regardless of how much of their pre-detonation inhibiting chemicals you buy.

[ruSTynutz]

I'm not running it in the hope of extra power or better fuel economy, Bill...

Some time back I was having trouble (just occasionally) with my ST not wanting to idle properly on cold start up
When I was trying to find out what was causing it I thought I'd run a few tanks of 98 through it to see if that helped.
Funnily enough at the time it seemed to so I've just continued to use it.

The cold start up issue still happens every now and then so I now figure the 98 fuel & any change in the frequency was just a coincidence.
I'm now thinking it's probably the 4 way pipe issue that I've read about here on the forum.
I'll probably check it out more closely if it starts to happen more frequently...

By the way, another reason that I'm happy to continue using a higher octane fuel rather than using 91 unleaded is the fact that it can contain up to 10% ethanol.
https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html

As some may be aware of, ethanol is actually not recommended for Honda motorcycles...
https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol

So, as I mentioned previously, I don't do all that many K's a year so the added expense of using 98 octane fuel isn't huge... 

[StinkyPete]

This issue is done to death elsewhere, but the short summary is, if your compression ratio is low enough that RON 91 doesn't ping, you gain nothing by using 95 or 98.  The energy in the fuels is the same, regardless of what the peddlers claim- the difference is in the ability of the high compression engines to extract more power.  If you ain't got the compression, you ain't gonna get the power, regardless of how much of their pre-detonation inhibiting chemicals you buy.

A mate an I on identical BMW's did a 2,500km muli day ride a couple of years back, riding together the whole time.   I put in 91 for the whole trip and he used 95 or 98 for the whole trip.   At each fill we put in an identical amount of fuel.

[Jdbiker]

The little sticker on the tank of my 2008 ST says use 95RON or above so that’s what I do. In some remote locations l have occasionally used 91 unleaded when nothing else was available with no detrimental effect, never used 91 with added ethanol though.

[Brock]

I have used E10 fuel, when it was available locally and cheaper than 91. The bike ran just the same for just as far. I really dont think our bikes care so much, they just want to go out and play.

[Biggles]

The little sticker on the tank of my 2008 ST says use 95RON or above so that’s what I do. In some remote locations l have occasionally used 91 unleaded when nothing else was available with no detrimental effect, never used 91 with added ethanol though.

FWIW, E10 is rated at 94.

By the way, another reason that I'm happy to continue using a higher octane fuel rather than using 91 unleaded is the fact that it can contain up to 10% ethanol.
https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html

Another reason not to use BP fuel- it's usually the dearest in town anyway.  I know some riders swear it's the only brand they will use, given the choice.

[ruSTynutz]

never used 91 with added ethanol though.

Reading that BP link I posted earlier, it would appear you could be using 91 unleaded with added ethanol and you wouldn't necessarily know.... 

[Langers]

I'm not so sure you'd using BP with ethanol and not knowing it. It appears the Bowser would have a different sticker that says ethanol has been added.
I've only ever used 91 and don't seem to have any issues but I have also thrown in Seaform and injector cleaner on the odd occasion. They appear to be a very forgiving engine.

[ruSTynutz]

I'm not so sure you'd using BP with ethanol and not knowing it. It appears the Bowser would have a different sticker that says ethanol has been added.

Here are some pics that I took of our local bowser a couple of years back...
As can be seen, there's no indication of ethanol being in the fuel on the main signage.
But, if you look at the fairly small sticker tucked away under the display, there is...



Regardless of that though, if BP (and probably other fuel companies) are replacing their plain 91 unleaded with an ethanol blend, I think I'd rather just play it safe and run a higher octane fuel rather than run the risk of potential long term damage from ethanol.
Of course, in saying that, I have no idea what fuel the previous owner of my bike ran...

[ruSTynutz]

Another reason not to use BP fuel- it's usually the dearest in town anyway.  I know some riders swear it's the only brand they will use, given the choice.

I must admit we mainly use BP for all our vehicles.
It probably has something to do with only having 2 servos in town and both are BP...