Engine Warm Up

[RGardner]

Today's dumb question and I'm sure this would have been covered many times before but I can't find the definative posts:
I always warm her up (the bike that is) before leaving the comfort of my garage. That's what the Good Book says so I religiously wait for that first orange square to appear before setting out on the next great adventure. Quite often I bring her into work with the intention of a quick lunchtime blat around the foothills. Unfortunately the lengthy idling time appears to be somewhat career-limiting by keeping the boss from his slumber. What irreversble damage are we really causing our mounts by quietly slipping away with a still cold engine?
I'm talking of course about nothing above 60 until the first temperature light comes on.
(The same problem exists if you have sensitive neighbours or when doing that pre-dawn start from the camping grounds and not wanting to keep the dear old Grey Nomads from their early morning beauty sleep).
Cheers,
Rob

[Brock]

I dont know about the 1300, but with my 1100, its a case of startand then off down the road. Mind you, at 50 Ks, the engine is only idling any way, so I'm not wasting that 10 min of fuel.

[Down Under]

My understanding is that modern fuel injected engines are very efficient in cold start up situations.  If the engine is idling smoothly, oil has circulated to where it should be and the best warm up from this point is to ride the bike to operating temperature with out revving the engine hard or placing a heavy load on it.  So once I start it and fiddle around getting my lid and gloves on.....I'm off!     

[Biggles]

I don't wait for any amber lights on the 1300.  I do wait for the FI to go out, then let her idle while I put the helmet on.  I have noticed these very cold (5^o) mornings that it idles very fast (1800 RPM) for the first 500 metres, probably until the first amber segment lights up (must look tomorrow). 
I read somewhere that the traditional warm-up is not as necessary for modern vehicles which are manufactured from better metals to finer tolerances with better oil, than in the "olden days".

[alans1100]

Warm up usually takes from the time I start the bike, do my jacket up, put helmet on, glasses on, gloves on and sitting on bike, may take a little extra time if partner comes with me. So anything from a minute to two minutes. As soon as one or both of us are on, chokes off, in gear and away.

This time of the year I will use the choke but in warmer weather I rarely do. Idle speed with choke on equates to about 60 kph so keeping revs low for a few minutes won't hurt.

As bikes go 1100/1300's are relatively quiet anyway and as for before sunrise, I don't even go there. I have no trouble going to bed in the middle of the night but getting out of bed before sunrise is just not on.

[terrydj]

When it starts I ride
Whe you ride the bike me thinks the slippery stuff goes round a whole lot better than when its just sitting their doing nothing

[saaz]

I am also into the once it starts I am ready to ride school.  Things warm up quicker once you are going.  I don't thrash it in the first few kms though, just ease up to riding, unless of course I need to to avoid being killed/maimed.  And I start up from -c temperatures this time of year.  There are other components to warm up as well, like wheel bearings, tyres, etc.  It is more likely that the bike will be destroyed in many other ways well before the engine gives up.  My bike only has 170,000kms on it so have to wait and see how this goes.

[Aj1300]

I start my 1300 up, put my helmet and gloves on then go. I am like Brock and only let it idle away till it warms up properly. By the time I get to the first set of light from my place, it's up too the 2nd bar.

[saaz]

5c very cold..I wish for 5 c mornings!  That is more spring weather.  I think this goes to show different perceptions of what a cold start is. In my mind a proper cold start is -10c or below.  Above that is quite within the normal capacity of oils etc to handle.  Once you start talking snow conditions and -20c you are talking real cold start and having to use more winter grade oils..

I don't wait for any amber lights on the 1300.  I do wait for the FI to go out, then let her idle while I put the helmet on.  I have noticed these very cold (5^o) mornings that it idles very fast (1800 RPM) for the first 500 metres, probably until the first amber segment lights up (must look tomorrow). 
I read somewhere that the traditional warm-up is not as necessary for modern vehicles which are manufactured from better metals to finer tolerances with better oil, than in the "olden days".

[Maverick75]

It's good to at least get a bit of heat into your pistons. Al has a higher coefficient of thermal expansion than cast iron (liners) and pistons are matched to bores a little 'too small' when cold. So you may get a little piston slap if taking off from cold, which can theoretically wear your rings into a barrel shape, lessening their sealing efficiency. You'll also tend to increase skirt wear. I'm assuming the ST pistons are cast hypereutectic, so it's not as much an issue as in the old days, but engines are still built to run hot clearances, not cold.

I like to get in a minute of warmup before loading at all, and don't full throttle anything until the temp gauge has stabilised. But then I keep engines for 2-300k.

Just my 2c.

[Diesel]

I warm the bike (1300) up - at least until the auto choke valves start bringing the idle revs down and there is at least one bar lit on the water temp gauge. Like everyone else - gingerly ride for the first few mins until 3 bars - then straight up to 9,000 r.p.m. and 217km/h! Thereby looking after my bike beautifully!     

(There may have been a little artistic licence in that last statement)     

I also don't like the thought of the first wintery morning brake application being a solid and hard application, so I gently apply the brakes slightly longer to let friction do her job on the discs and friction material - dunno if this means anything scientifically or not - just makes me feel a little better - like that little safety weave I perform when starting out to make sure things are tickety boo!     

[STeveo]

I too let the engine warm while putting hat and gloves on, then ride slowly for first few Kms. Modern oils and engine components make long warm-ups un-necessary, just don't give it full throttle or load the engine before the temps have a chance to reach operating temp.

 

[Malcolm6112]

By the time you get your gear on the engine is plenty warm enough.
I would even go as far to say ride off straight away. As Brock put it it's only idling. Get going. Then after 2 to 5 kms start to use the throttle more.
The main important thing is don't fang it when it's cold.
As it was pointed out, modern oils cope with a lot.

 

[Whizz]

I start the bike up and whilst putting jacket, helmet, gloves etc on I am waiting for the EFI to start dropping the revs. A soon as the engine note starts to drop I'm on my way as I consider this to be a sign that the engine is starting to become warm enough for a few revs. As I live on a suburban housing estate the first couple of minutes of driving are very gentle anyway, so by the time I've reached the main road it's up to temp and ready to roll. Hope this helps.

Cheers
Whizz
 

[Biggles]

I mentioned high revs on my 1300 and looked at them closely today.  I dunno if it's because of being winter, but I can't remember seeing this previous years:  the EFI runs the revs at 2000 for about a minute, then pushes them up to 3000 for about 30 seconds, maybe more before dropping back to normal idle (900).  Could be something sticking in the auto-choke function.
Did I ever mention that I quite liked the control the ST1100 gives you with manual choke and carbs?  Hardly used the choke here in Brisbane.

[Brock]

havent used the choke yet this winter.... Its a bugger when you forget to turn it off, and it kills the economy

[saaz]

The ST13 does something like those rev changes as part of its EFI choke system.  The system can play up sometimes from what I have read, but can be adjusted by synching the linkages.  There are some tubes that are part of the EFI system that can get blockages in them as they have some low points that can get a but of gunk in them that is easily cleaned out to restore operation.  I haven't worked on an ST13 so can only sort of visualise the way it works.  The EFI is probably a bit more precise about what it considers 'cool', even in Brisbane, as below operating temperature is cool for emissions etc.

[Whizz]

I've not actually looked at what revs the engine goes to from cold, just listened to the note the engine makes, but it only takes a couple of minute before it starts to slow, then takes a couple of minutes for it to be back to normal, by which time I'm on the road.

I'll try this tomorrow morning when it's cold and note the times and rev counts, then post it up here, if that will help anyone.

Cheers
Whizz
 

[Maverick75]

No choke, just throttle lock has worked fine down to -3 in highfields, so far :).

[tremarg]

Another viewpoint on the high idle topic. My interpretation of the handbook seems to imply that riding with high idle can cause problems in the first few hundred metres depending on the road way. One day in winter I got on together with the wife and departed on starting. When I got to the roundabout at the end of the street (100mtrs) I slowed in the usual manner i.e. same as if on the road warmed up, only to find the bike wanting to keep going, not to good on tight traffic calming roundabouts. Since then I do not leave until it idles correctly. I believe that the manual is trying to cover a different riding situation on fast idle. I concur with others that you can go immediately on starting, carefully.
Regarding the unusual higher revs while warming, this is due to residue building up in the vacuum pipes (as saas has said) near the 5 way fitting which connects the MAP sensor. Mine did the fast then faster idle bit until one day it would not idle at all when hot. The residue will block off 1 or 2 cyclinder vac feeds. This OK when under power however when idling the MAP sensor is seeing pulstating vac pressure and the ecu tries to keep up eventually leading to erractic idle and even no idle at all. This situation was verified by putting a vacuum gauge on each cyclinder feed and the result will be obvious. The residue was a red sticky substance which sat at the lowest point depending on how the 5 way branch is sitting. This happened at around the same time as Shell's alleged  issue with their top end fuel. Haven't used Shell since unless there is no choice and had no further idle issues.

[Biggles]

Regarding the unusual higher revs while warming, this is due to residue building up in the vacuum pipes (as saas has said) near the 5 way fitting which connects the MAP sensor. Mine did the fast then faster idle bit until one day it would not idle at all when hot. The residue will block off 1 or 2 cyclinder vac feeds. This OK when under power however when idling the MAP sensor is seeing pulstating vac pressure and the ecu tries to keep up eventually leading to erractic idle and even no idle at all. This situation was verified by putting a vacuum gauge on each cyclinder feed and the result will be obvious. The residue was a red sticky substance which sat at the lowest point depending on how the 5 way branch is sitting. This happened at around the same time as Shell's alleged  issue with their top end fuel. Haven't used Shell since unless there is no choice and had no further idle issues.

I wonder if a fuel system cleaner would shift that without having to pull the bike to bits.

[tremarg]

Will not work as fuel in liquid form will not get into that area. Seems that the substance is a condensed vapour. If you have the tank off and airbox out for an aircleaner change, allows check this fitting and lines. Does not hurt to check throttle valve sync at the same time (never had to adjust). I have rerouted the vac lines so that I can get to them without a major dismantle.

[Biggles]

Will not work as fuel in liquid form will not get into that area. Seems that the substance is a condensed vapour. If you have the tank off and airbox out for an aircleaner change, allows check this fitting and lines. Does not hurt to check throttle valve sync at the same time (never had to adjust). I have rerouted the vac lines so that I can get to them without a major dismantle.

That would entail more than an air-cleaner check.  By the sounds of it, the airbox would have to come off, which is a huge PITA because of that hose that has to be pulled off and refitted under the back of the box.

Are there any tricks to save crushed arthritic hands getting that  hose and clip back on?

The 24 screws that have to be removed are a pleasure compared with that hose.
That's after you wait until you have an almost empty tank, then take the tank bra off and persuade the tank to clear the bar risers.
OK, I'll admit it, while I can do it, I don't get a rush out of most bike maintenance.   :(

[Brock]

Biggles.
Come to our maintenance day, and some one will "show "you how to do it...

[Biggles]

I might wait for the WA maintenance day to come to me!  Got about the same chance of happening.