OzSTOC
Honda ST1300 Section => Brakes & Clutch ST1300 => Topic started by: Poppy Dave on August 08, 2012, 11:08:31 PM
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Anyone got the "Motion Pro Hydraulic Brake Bleeder Tool" ?
If so, are they any good ? Is it worth buying (approx price $35 from the States) ?
Or is it just as easy doing it the 'Old fashioned' way ?
All, relevant, answers gratefully received.
Take care,
Dave :wht13
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only ever done it the old fashioned way so not much of a help actually >:()
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I have only ever bled the front brakes on my CX500 the "old fashioned way" as you call it. They were simple single pot calipers so bleeding them was no different to a car.
With my ABS/CBS set up I wouldn't know where to start so that's a dealer job for me.........lol
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There appear to be 2 kinds from Motion Pro:
Bleeder (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0143/)
Mini Bleeder (http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/category/mini_bleeders/) - this one has differing sizes
I'm so confused. :-[
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The Motion Pro tools look graet, but I have done it the tradional way for many years (tube into a jar, so when the brake fluid gets above the tube no chnace of air getting back into the system even when doing it yourself). I have a brake bleeder tube from supercheap that has a plastic one way valve on the end that works a bit better, but not that much.
96 on abs bikes need to follow a certain procedure due to the proportioning valve in the system.
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I was about to put up a post about these....
http://www.speedbleeder.com/ (http://www.speedbleeder.com/)
Having done a brake bleed (alone) - I can really see the value of a system like you or I have mentioned. It's a devil of a job - even if everything goes particularly well! :o
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I was about to put up a post about these....
[url]http://www.speedbleeder.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.speedbleeder.com/[/url])
Having done a brake bleed (alone) - I can really see the value of a system like you or I have mentioned. It's a devil of a job - even if everything goes particularly well! :o
Yeah Diesel, I had a look at those but there are a few negative comments about them on the ST-Owners site (can't recall the exact problem) and the ones that had the problems switched to the Motion Pro and gave them good marks.
I'll wait a few days and see if anyone has used them and see what the thinks.
Cheers to all that have responded so far.
Dave :wht13
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"Want some advice"
If you have a bike that has ABS? just leave it alone. Had me brakes done by a Honda joint and they took forever to bleed the things. Yeah theirs a special series of steps to take and even going straight by the book they stuffed it up a zillion times
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Having done a brake bleed (alone) - I can really see the value of a system like you or I have mentioned. It's a devil of a job - even if everything goes particularly well! :o
Agree with Diesel difficult (especially when you have to stand on your head operate the lever and fill the reservoir) but not impossible make sure you follow the manual to the letter and wont be a problem, I didn't the first time and had to do it again, big thing is don't let the system go dry that's the bigee.
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I noticed the other day that supercheap has a brake bleeding helper that is essentially a small plastic bottle with a hose attached that ensures that air does not get back into the system while you pump the lever. Achieves the same as immersing the bleed tube in a jar.
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:wht11 py
I always thought the simplest way was a tube from the bleedin nipple into a jar of fluid and when bubbles stop job done,
but then I have been know to have a stubbie or 2
tipsy
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You guys should try a servo-braked BMW. Bleed nipple at each caliper, six bleed nipples on the ABS block (accessed by removing the fuel tank). Specific procedure for bleeding both control and wheel circuits. Four separate fluid reservoirs. Then at the end hook up to laptop and GS911 for bleed test. Done annually or there's a good probability of a $3500 (parts) bill for the failed brake pump. Used to take me about three hours each time.
I did the bleed on my ABSII ST11 soon after I bought it and shed a few tears over how easy it was.
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Hmmm, that puts me off!
Sounds as painful as doing my 80 Series Landcruiser :(
:13Candy
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Has anyone bled the brakes on a ABS model of the ST1300? I read the process for the normal brake lines, then got lost when it started talking about the ABS part.
I have a bleeding hose, the fluid, the ambition, cleaning cloths, capture container and 1/2 the know how.
Any tips welcome.
Rob.
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Has anyone bled the brakes on a ABS model of the ST1300? I read the process for the normal brake lines, then got lost when it started talking about the ABS part.
I have a bleeding hose, the fluid, the ambition, cleaning cloths, capture container and 1/2 the know how.
Any tips welcome.
Rob.
Have a look here.....process should be similar if not the same
http://home.insightbb.com/~mmartin36/Bleed.htm (http://home.insightbb.com/~mmartin36/Bleed.htm)
Bleeding the brakes on all ST1100 ABS-II (1996-2002).
This is as follows:
Left front caliper upper bleed valve, using the front brake lever.
Right front caliper upper bleed valve, using the front brake lever
Left front caliper lower bleed valve, using the rear brake pedal.
Right front caliper lower bleed valve, using the rear brake pedal.
Rear caliper front bleed valve, using the rear brake pedal.
Rear caliper rear bleed valve, using the rear brake pedal.
The following sequence from ST Owners for the 1300 has two extra steps (highlighted)
Brake Lever
1. Left Outer (upper) bleed valve.
2. Right Outer (upper) bleed valve.
Brake Pedal
1. Remove and tilt left front caliper 15 degrees (wood shims inserted between the pads will keep the pads from extending while~if pedal is pumped)
2. Proportioning Control bleed valve.
3. Rear Brake Center bleed valve.
4. Right Front Center bleed valve.
5. Left Front Center bleed valve.
6. Rear Outer (forward) bleed valve.
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From what I have read, really make sure that the fluid level in the master cylinder does not get too low. There is a world of pain if any air gets into the ABS module.
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I'm guessing the master cylinder is the fluid reservour on the handle bars?
Rob.
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Yes, that's the one. If air gets down to the ABS module then it could get hard.
I'm guessing the master cylinder is the fluid reservour on the handle bars?
Rob.
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Only give a3 or 4 pumps on the lever before refilling the master cylinder, other wise use a long hose from the bleeder back to the master cylinder and keep pumping round to get air out.
:bl11
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I'm guessing the master cylinder is the fluid reservour on the handle bars?
Rob.
Not forgetting the rear fluid reservoir for the rear barke either.
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Only give a3 or 4 pumps on the lever before refilling the master cylinder, other wise use a long hose from the bleeder back to the master cylinder and keep pumping round to get air out.
:bl11
It's not advisable to re use brake fluid once it's been added to the system......high risk of contamination......
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:rd13 :hatwave :runyay
WINSTON 66,
this may not be pertinant to the ST's but I recently obtained from E Bay a vacume brake bleading kit for under $30.00 which consisted of ,
A hand operated vacume pump,
A catch jar for the brake fluid,
PVC pipe , various sizes,
A variety of adaptors etc.etc. and some other stuff.
This all came in an unbranded component case and was very well presented.
So far I have used it twice in the last two weeks , Once to bleed the clutch on the Yamaha Royal Star after replacing the slave and rekiting the master,
The speed bleader that I purchased at the same time in order to do the job proved to be usless.
and the second time was today when we bled the brakes on a neighbours Toyota 4 wd.After replacing his rear cylinders and brake shoes.
The kit was quick and efficient and the jobs were completed without any fuss and very quickly.
I can only suggest that you check out E Bay , motor, spare parts, brake bleaders, to see what is on offer .
Cheers ,
Winston 66, Northampton
:think1 :hatwave :beer
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Good one Winston,
Do you have a link to the bleeder you ordered??
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Vacuum bleeders are the way to go (supposedly the clean fluid flushes out the system better), and I have been meaning to get one. This is the least expensive one I found http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380567728752&ssPageName=ADME:L:CORT:AU:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380567728752&ssPageName=ADME:L:CORT:AU:1123) which should be fine for home use. I have to do the car soon so it will make it an easy job.
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:rd13 :think1 :hatwave
Winston 66,
Yes Sazz that is the one. the extra in the price that I quoted was for the postage It works great.
Brock , the speed bleeder that I mentioned was one that I ordered from the Yamaha parts supplier that I use from the good old USA,
He is Skydoc 17 on the Venture riders forum.
Info on the speedbleeder can be found on www.speedbleeder (http://www.speedbleeder) .com They have several different models the one I got was SBS125L MBx1.25.
I think pt. No. 888-879-7016
I think that it did not work because I could not make the seal airtight.( at the clutch bleeder where it replaced the std bleeder )
However the vacumme pump set up only needs one person and worked great for me.
Cheers .
Winston 66 ,Northampton
:rd13 :hatwave :runyay :beer
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Being a devout coward, and not being that mechanically inclined, I rather not trust myself to fiddle with the one bit of the bike that might conceivably get me out of trouble if I get into it...so anything to do with the brakes goes to the dealer to fix, without hesitation. :-((( :-((( :-(((
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After tipping over my 1100 last year on the Putty road and the front brake lever being pushed right back to the bar, I have noticed the lever was a bit 'spongy' when pulled back hard. Bleeding showed no improvement, so I felt the line behind the headlight while squeezing the lever hard and could feel the hose expanding. Decided an overhaul of master cylinder and new braided line required (had overhauled the calipers 12mths ago). Ordered m/c kit from Japan and had my son who works at a hydrulic shop to make new lines for me (The shop and son have RTA certification to make brake lines). I fitted them up and using a 50ml syringe and plastic hose pushed the new brake fluid from the calipers back up into the master cylinder until no bubbles and cylinder full (was all dry and would have been a pain to bleed from top down). Then a couple of bleeds in the normal way to make certain no air still in lines and all good. Has improved the feel at the lever dramatically. My son said if anybody else in the club wanted new lines made he would do them for the same price ($115.00) plus postage of course. Can be done in black, silver, red and blue.
:bl11
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One trick I have read is to use plumbers tape on the bleeder thread to reduce air intake.
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Found this because of brake problems.
even the best service manager I know says its a pain on the abs.
says it's up to an hour to bleed the six nipples.
remember not done right - you could be unstoppable missile.
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ABS bikes have a specific procedure to follow. I just have one of the simple bikes :) Some of the new bikes need a laptop plugged in and using software to go through the bleeding procedure.
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I had Malcolm and Ray over to my place on the weekend to check out the bike and it was suggested to change out the fluids brakes and clutch .......... we followed the steps Mal had put upon the steps on bleeding and boy was the fluid yuk
We had a issue with the rear and can any one answer this as i cant find anything relating to this on the net ....... Bike on centre stand when pulling in the front lever the rear brake caliper does not engage when rotated at all and it states that one piston does wh front lever pulled on.......depressing rear brake lever no issue with stopping wheel
we think that this being a St1300 Police model as ray mentioned the cops like to use rear brake more and honda may have adjusted the Police models not to apply the rear from the front lever ?
can anyone with an ex police test the bike for this on the centre stand hold front lever and try and spin rear wheel does it spin or not
We did not test ray or mals to if the same .......so can someone do this on the non police model
Turtle
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We had a issue with the rear and can any one answer this as i cant find anything relating to this on the net ....... Bike on centre stand when pulling in the front lever the rear brake caliper does not engage when rotated at all and it states that one piston does wh front lever pulled on.......depressing rear brake lever no issue with stopping wheel
The front wheel needs to be rotating with brakes applied, in order to operate the "link" to the rear wheel. You will see that the left front caliper can pivot forward on it's bottom fixture when front brakes are applied, and this movement depresses the piston at the top of the front left caliper, which in turn operates the rear brake. It's an elegant mechanical link.
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I don't think there's be to much difference has to how the CBS brakes between the two models work.
1100: foot brake operates centre pot on each calliper (front and rear)......this system is the only one with a direct link up.
Hand brake operates outer pots on front callipers only and this system is not linked directly to the rear.
But:- Any braking (by foot or hand) then causes LH calliper to activate (mechanical link) a secondary master cylinder to operate the outer two rear pots.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4501/37514264720_05e2a27358_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Za1pVA)img064 (https://flic.kr/p/Za1pVA) by Alan (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152195423@N05/), on Flickr
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We had a issue with the rear and can any one answer this as i cant find anything relating to this on the net ....... Bike on centre stand when pulling in the front lever the rear brake caliper does not engage when rotated at all and it states that one piston does wh front lever pulled on.......depressing rear brake lever no issue with stopping wheel
The front wheel needs to be rotating with brakes applied, in order to operate the "link" to the rear wheel. You will see that the left front caliper can pivot forward on it's bottom fixture when front brakes are applied, and this movement depresses the piston at the top of the front left caliper, which in turn operates the rear brake. It's an elegant mechanical link.
:think1 Wouldn't this be why it is necessary to remove the left front caliper and tilt it before trying to bleed the rear caliper? This is where we had the "issue". The rear caliper would not bleed at all from the front lever, but bled both circuits on the rear caliper from the foot pedal! :fp
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Found this for bleeding brakes on a 1300A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsABU21d4uU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsABU21d4uU)