Author Topic: How Many Lights is too Many...  (Read 4410 times)

Offline jt8277

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How Many Lights is too Many...
« on: November 21, 2017, 11:59:49 AM »
Hi guys,

After the recent conversations had at the RTE in Halls Gap recently surrounding lights on our bikes.  This got me thinking... I know dangerous right... One or two of you were interested in what LED Strip lights and Spots I had added to my ST1100.  I have a number of LED Lights on the bike now, in the hope that it will make it more visible...

3 x LED DRL Strip Light bars, 2 either side of the front wheel, and 1 on the front windscreen
2 x LED Strips under the bike - these were the first to be installed to add colour to the bike in the dark, but you cannot really see them any more
2 x Red LED Strips on the rear of the bike
2 x Super bright spot LEDs on the rear of the bike
2 x Big Spot Riding lights mounted on the underside of each mirror

WOW!!! when you right it out like that... it surprises even me, how much I have put on this bike so far.

Do you think that is too much... I have more I would like to add and some additional accessories, but have some concerns that I will be overloading the poor battery.  These are the plans:

2 x LED Indicator DRL lights in Amber
Replacement of Heated Grips - my heated grips have been non-functional for some time and are desperate to be replaced
Addition of power to additional accessories, for example, a GPS unit or Tablet mounted on the top Dashboard shelf and a permanent power supply to my DashCam

What my concerns are, do you think I should seriously be considering adding an additional battery (maybe under the seat) to be used as the power source to my auxiliary accessories? to take the strain off the main battery?

The second concern, what are the thoughts of the police when it comes to lighting on a bike, when is it too many lights?

Let me have your thoughts, I would much appreciate them.

In case you were interested - https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-12V-Waterproof-White-DRL-LED-Strip-Lights-Bars-Camping-Caravan-Boat-Car-COB/162559739900?epid=2142429057&hash=item25d950c7fc:g:O24AAOSwLsBZSH0e - these are similar to the ones I have installed on the front of the bike, except mine are in silver frames.

J
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Offline Brock

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 04:57:59 PM »
No need to worry about the battery, unless your bike isnt running, the alternator supplys the power needed, up to 40 Amps.

There does come a point that you could have too many lights, in that instead of being noticed the lights become a distraction. White mini spots to the rear would be illegal.

I dont have any DRLs, I do have 2 x 55 watt spotties for night use, and I do have orange strobes for bike marshalling events
Brock
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Offline jt8277

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 05:23:04 PM »
Hi Brock,

Thanks for the reply... I should have said the two mini spots on the rear are Red, I am making sure I am staying within the law...

But thanks for your reply, it is really useful.  For the non-electrical people among us, what would be the best way to determine how much Amps I am pulling because of the lights, that way I will know if I am getting close... hopefully not.

Yours

J
 

Offline Gadget

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 05:39:24 PM »
The absolutely best way, is to measure each light with an ammeter.

Otherwise, the specifications of each type of LED should indicate the current consumption. (Or power)

If it's power, divide by 12 to get the current.

e.g. 24 Watts equals 2 Amps current draw.

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Offline Brock

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 05:52:56 PM »
Divide watts by volts (12 nominally) equals amps.
 for example, 2 x 55 watt lamps equals 110 watts.  110/12 = 9.2 close enough, round it to 10 Amps.



I think the bike uses about 15 amps ( headlights on of course) in normal operation, leaving 25 amps for other stuff, lets call that 20 Amps ( allowing the bike to have a little in reserve for horn and cooling fan)
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Offline Lionel

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 07:23:49 PM »
A few years ago one of the FarRiders was riding his Goldwing in SA and copped a ticket for too many lights.
From memory he had 2 headlights and 2 driving lights, Honda style. But then he added another two from memory and that’s what caused the trouble. Not only did he get the infringement notice but also the policewoman slapped a sticker on the bike which required him to comply, and pay a fee for its removal.
He explained that he needed the extra lights to detect animals on the highway but that fell on deaf ears.
 

Offline Yorkie

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 08:56:07 PM »
The alternator output on the 1100 may be 40 amps but the main fuse is only 30 and everything runs through this
Brian 0418937173
Manager York Motor Museum

In the shed
1999 ST1100A
1971 CB750K2
1980 XV750
1977 GL1000
FR#720
CMRCWA #133
York,WA

So at what age does this "old enough to know better" kick in?
I believe in the "hereafter", every time I go to the shed I have to think "what am I here after"
 

Offline Biggles

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2017, 09:54:28 PM »
The alternator output on the 1100 may be 40 amps but the main fuse is only 30 and everything runs through this

That's why you take another lead off the positive terminal to a custom fuse block...
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

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Offline Gadget

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 07:58:38 AM »
The alternator output on the 1100 may be 40 amps but the main fuse is only 30 and everything runs through this

That's why you take another lead off the positive terminal to a custom fuse block...
Or if you want it switched with the ignition, from the battery, via a fuse, then a relay, activated from the switched side of the loom.

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Offline Yorkie

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 09:31:00 PM »
My point is that if you are using 40 amps nil remains to charge the battery which means nil starts
Brian 0418937173
Manager York Motor Museum

In the shed
1999 ST1100A
1971 CB750K2
1980 XV750
1977 GL1000
FR#720
CMRCWA #133
York,WA

So at what age does this "old enough to know better" kick in?
I believe in the "hereafter", every time I go to the shed I have to think "what am I here after"
 

Offline Gadget

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 09:45:27 PM »
My point is that if you are using 40 amps nil remains to charge the battery which means nil starts
Aye, correct weight.

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Gary
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Offline Biggles

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 10:22:15 PM »
My point is that if you are using 40 amps nil remains to charge the battery which means nil starts

And it's a good point, worth reminding the mad farklers about.

I know it depends on the running/charge time between starts, but what would be a reasonable amount of amps to leave in reserve for the battery charging?  Let's say most heavy drain farkles (e.g. heated grips) are being used around town and a typical trip is 20 minutes.
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

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Offline Brock

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 10:31:11 PM »
Running with zero replacement, then the bike will be good for a few starts.

Its not often that you would be running with all farkles on at once, but once running the bike will keep running ( the power usage takes into account the running of the engine) dont use the Nautilus horn tho, as the engine might stop. (it uses about 20 amps alone)
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Offline alans1100

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 11:11:29 PM »
Hi Brock,

Thanks for the reply... I should have said the two mini spots on the rear are Red, I am making sure I am staying within the law...

But thanks for your reply, it is really useful.  For the non-electrical people among us, what would be the best way to determine how much Amps I am pulling because of the lights, that way I will know if I am getting close... hopefully not.

Yours

J


The LED DRLs that have each side of the front wheel could be an issue.

As in Diesel's bike here http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=9050.msg1193894#msg1193894

From the SA Transport Dept. reply to a query sent some time ago they must be wired into the high beam circuit.

Quote
Regarding the LED you have mounted on the front forks of your bike the following is advised.

Under the Road Traffic Act(ADRs) and the Australian Design Rules those light fall into the category of driving lights and they must be wired so they can only operate when high beam is selected

There is no category of Conspicuity Lights in the relevant ADR for your bike and previously these light where hard wired headlamps which your bike would have, so they would come under the requirements for a driving lamp.

1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

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Offline Gadget

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 06:24:06 AM »
Surely they could only be considered driving lights if they had focused beams.

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Offline Yorkie

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2017, 08:55:18 PM »
on a bike the headlight is the DRL, technically any others will be spots
Brian 0418937173
Manager York Motor Museum

In the shed
1999 ST1100A
1971 CB750K2
1980 XV750
1977 GL1000
FR#720
CMRCWA #133
York,WA

So at what age does this "old enough to know better" kick in?
I believe in the "hereafter", every time I go to the shed I have to think "what am I here after"
 

Offline Gadget

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2017, 09:34:37 PM »
on a bike the headlight is the DRL, technically any others will be spots
Even LED strips?

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Gary
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Offline Totgas

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2017, 02:58:07 PM »
I have no idea what you are talking about

I acknowledge hardworking Australians no matter who they are or where they come from. All those who have contributed to this wonderful country deserve an equal share of gratitude for their contributions. To single any group of individuals out for special homage only denigrates the rest of us.
 

Offline Lionel

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2017, 03:46:00 PM »
Frans' original  post on FarRiders May 09, 2012, 04:02:20 PM is reproduced below (with approval)

"Got pulled over about 80k's south of Glendambo AT 4PM ON Sunday. Police girl said I
had my head lights on and any reason why I had them on?
I said, I didn't had them on. I had driving lights on.In the meantime, a second police
girl turned around and came to help the first determining what they could book me for.
She asked me to show her which lights I had on. I showed her. I have already decided that
I am going to get a fine and was ready to argue with them. She said the lights were too
bright. I asked what determines a light being too bright. She said yours is too bright
and all the truckies complained about my lights. I asked what channel that was. She said
it does not matter and why do I want to know.
I said I have UHF on the bike and did not hear any trucky complain. She said maybe
they were over the hill. I said I can hear what they say even if they are over the hill. She
changed the subject back to the lights.
In the meantime, the second police girl said I had too many lights and they are going to
defect my vehicle. I asked how many is too many. Answer is 4. I said in NSW where I'm
from, I never had a problem with police officers and lights. They said it's an Australian
standard. I also pointed out that I passed 6 police cars before she pulled me over, and
none of them had an issue. I also pointed out that every truck and many 4WD's have more than 4 lights.
They told me they pull them over when they see them. This was the same moment when a road train slowed down to go pass between me and the police vehicle. I want to point out that it was a narrow road and one police car was behind me with 2 wheels on the road. The other police vehicle was parked on the opposite side of the road which leaves a narrow gap- so much for road safety.
She gave me a fine saying I had my fog lights on while not permitted. They started to discuss where to put the sticker. One said we don't want to put it on the paint cause it's such a beautiful colour. My heartbeat went up by 50 beats. What about the chrome? the other asked.
My heartbeat went up another 50 beats. They decided to put it on the airbag "where it would cause the least damage". I wondered why they would be prepare to damage my bike? They said I have 24 hours to get to Coober Pedy to rectify the fault.
Next day I went to the police at Coober Pedy.
Officer behind the counter asked if he could help. I said, yes please. My bike being defected because I had too many lights fitted. He said he never heard about that and how can a bike have too many lights anyway?
He looked at the bike and called 2 other policemen who were just about to leave (for Port
Augusta). They looked at the bike and were equally surprised. One of them went on the
radio to Adelaide, Canberra and probably the White House as well - dunno. He came back
and said I was riding with the lights on. I said yes, I had 2 LED's on and that they are not lights anyway. I said it was overcast the previous day and visibility was not good.
He said that the girl who pulled me over said I can only have 4 lights on the bike. He counted the main lights of the Wing as 2, ignored the bottom 2 and said I need to cover the HID's and 2 LED's. If I have more than 4 lights on the bike, they need to be covered in the day. I asked what the reason was. He said so you can't use them in the day. I asked if I cover all ligthts except for 2, can I use the 2 that would not be covered cause that is what happened yesterday? I haven't heard him answering me.
I told him the fuse was blown so I can't turn them on anyway.
He said get the lights covered with anything and keep going. They removed the sticker and wanted $52. I have 30 days or something to pay another $205 + 60 levy for riding with my fog lights on.
So, they basically cleared the defective bike without me doing anything to the bike. It
still has all the lights on, cause I said I need them at night while riding. I will argue
the fog light issue later on. I do not have fog lights on the bike, I do have driving
lights on the bike."

 
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Offline jt8277

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2017, 04:27:24 PM »
Sorry if this wrong but can I assume Glendambo is in SA? I thought that it was an Australian wide rule that the headlights have to be on all the time, unlike my bike in the UK I have no switch to turn off the main headlight.

I haven’t yet been out anywhere dark enough to use my new spots.

I have had the LEDs on the front and back for some time and haven’t had any issues with police... they did have a slight issue with my license plate not having the state, and a weird color once in Melbourne and when I told them it was NSW registered they left me... it’s been re-registered now.

Thanks for all the replies, by the way, the information is really useful and this has turned into a really good discussion.

J


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Offline jt8277

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2017, 04:31:27 PM »
Hi Brock,

Thanks for the reply... I should have said the two mini spots on the rear are Red, I am making sure I am staying within the law...

But thanks for your reply, it is really useful.  For the non-electrical people among us, what would be the best way to determine how much Amps I am pulling because of the lights, that way I will know if I am getting close... hopefully not.

Yours

J


The LED DRLs that have each side of the front wheel could be an issue.

As in Diesel's bike here http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=9050.msg1193894#msg1193894

From the SA Transport Dept. reply to a query sent some time ago they must be wired into the high beam circuit.

Quote
Regarding the LED you have mounted on the front forks of your bike the following is advised.

Under the Road Traffic Act(ADRs) and the Australian Design Rules those light fall into the category of driving lights and they must be wired so they can only operate when high beam is selected

There is no category of Conspicuity Lights in the relevant ADR for your bike and previously these light where hard wired headlamps which your bike would have, so they would come under the requirements for a driving lamp.




Thanks. Each of my LEDs and new spots have been wired into a separate switch... made the mistake of putting the switch to my spots on the right side which means I need to come off the throttle to switch them on whoops!!

But they are separate and as I said in my last post the LEDs have been on for quite some time and no police have taken notice... not even the sound my bike makes.


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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2017, 04:36:22 PM »
Not and St but I have two fog lights and an LED bar on my bike.  The LED has only been there since a week before doing the border run in august and I have only ever used it three times, when I departed hit Port Wakefield Road on the way to the border and leaving early the following morning.  The third occasion was leaving Port Campbell earlier this month, but they got switched off once it was light enough to see in front of me.  I ride with the fog lights on all the time.  I don't think they're that bright and no one has ever said anything, not even the police.  Basically they're one for the "see and be seen" purposes.

   
 

Offline Brock

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Re: How Many Lights is too Many...
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2017, 06:33:54 PM »
It is illegal to drive with fog lights on when not in fog, that is in the ADRs.

Also due to modern cars (maybe some bikes, you are allowed 4 headlights ( 2 low bean and 2 high) plus 2 driving spot lights

For this context, here are the SA rules,  ps I havent read them.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/driving-and-transport/vehicles/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/lighting-and-instrumentation
Brock
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