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Honda ST1300 Section => Ask A Tech about your Honda ST1300 => Topic started by: doggy & Nola on March 23, 2022, 10:09:58 PM

Title: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: doggy & Nola on March 23, 2022, 10:09:58 PM
Hi I have a ST 1300 2008 pan European.
I’ve just clocked up 86,000 km. Never has it had a problem in that period.
Just recently it is being difficult to start first up as in after been sitting for a day or so.
I turn the key on always wait for the fuel pump to stop hit the starter and it starts.
Now when I hit the starter it seems to fire on a cylinder or two open the throttle close the throttle try again then it will start and run fine any ideas would be muchly appreciated ?.
cheers to all safe riding
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Shiney on March 25, 2022, 09:04:40 AM
 :think1 I would start with checking the battery & sparkplugs.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on March 25, 2022, 02:23:33 PM
Sounds like it cranks OK, so I'd go with plugs.  A couple of them are hard to get at...    :'(
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Brock on March 25, 2022, 02:48:27 PM
Check battery voltage while cranking, if less than 10 volts the battery doesnt have any capacity left to run the computer/ignition system. How old is the battery..  Try jump starting from your car. If it fires up, the battery she is flattery.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: doggy & Nola on March 25, 2022, 06:54:43 PM
It will end up starting after two or three tries and run fine
Fast Idles then slows down to a idle  once it warms
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: StinkyPete on March 26, 2022, 05:44:56 AM
I assume you are cranking it with the throttle closed.    Sorry if it's a "suck eggs" suggestion. 
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: doggy & Nola on March 26, 2022, 06:21:41 AM
Yes I always do .  now I try everything open throttle clothes throttle until it does eventually start
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: doggy & Nola on March 28, 2022, 07:43:02 PM
 :angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon
hey all thank you for your input. :chocolate-box-smiley-emoticon
I did 350km on Saturday new tank of fuel.
then Sunday morning it started st8 up no problem.
so perhaps it was just cook fuel ?.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on March 29, 2022, 10:28:41 AM
Yep.  It's seldom the ST that's at fault.  Usually something that's been done to it, such as "cook" fuel.    ;-*
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: CallMeSteve on March 29, 2022, 04:10:23 PM
I had a tank of 91 once that did that.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on March 29, 2022, 04:12:29 PM
I had a tank of 91 once that did that.

Rubina only ever gets 91, like her antecedents.  She laps it up.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: CallMeSteve on March 29, 2022, 04:18:03 PM
Yeah me too now.  I agree with you that premium fuel doesnt seem to make a sausage of difference, apart from perhaps cleaning the engine (and even that might be advertising waffle).   I had just one tank of bad fuel.  Generally 91 is fine.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Brock on March 29, 2022, 06:04:02 PM
Some years ago I used to run a detailed spread sheet of fuel usage, costs etc. I had a lot of data for the 1100, were I ran 91, 95, ultra, E10 etc for several months to have stable usage figures. The only fifference after thousands of ks was in the $$$$ per Kilometer. 91 won out...
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on March 31, 2022, 10:15:15 AM
Yeah me too now.  I agree with you that premium fuel doesnt seem to make a sausage of difference, apart from perhaps cleaning the engine (and even that might be advertising waffle).

Every now and then I put 125ml of Moreys Injector Cleaner into a full tank to do any house-cleaning that Rubina deems necessary.  Like my Missus- "Isn't this the fortnight that you vacuum the house?"
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on March 31, 2022, 03:28:57 PM
I run 98 in my ST although with the price of fuel these days I might have to reconsider that...  :fp
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on April 01, 2022, 04:15:14 PM
I run 98 in my ST although with the price of fuel these days I might have to reconsider that...  :fp

This issue is done to death elsewhere, but the short summary is, if your compression ratio is low enough that RON 91 doesn't ping, you gain nothing by using 95 or 98.  The energy in the fuels is the same, regardless of what the peddlers claim- the difference is in the ability of the high compression engines to extract more power.  If you ain't got the compression, you ain't gonna get the power, regardless of how much of their pre-detonation inhibiting chemicals you buy.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 01, 2022, 08:57:14 PM
I'm not running it in the hope of extra power or better fuel economy, Bill...

Some time back I was having trouble (just occasionally) with my ST not wanting to idle properly on cold start up
When I was trying to find out what was causing it I thought I'd run a few tanks of 98 through it to see if that helped.
Funnily enough at the time it seemed to so I've just continued to use it.

The cold start up issue still happens every now and then so I now figure the 98 fuel & any change in the frequency was just a coincidence.
I'm now thinking it's probably the 4 way pipe issue that I've read about here on the forum.
I'll probably check it out more closely if it starts to happen more frequently...

By the way, another reason that I'm happy to continue using a higher octane fuel rather than using 91 unleaded is the fact that it can contain up to 10% ethanol.
https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html (https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html)

As some may be aware of, ethanol is actually not recommended for Honda motorcycles...
https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol (https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol)

So, as I mentioned previously, I don't do all that many K's a year so the added expense of using 98 octane fuel isn't huge...  :beer
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: StinkyPete on April 02, 2022, 05:49:48 AM
This issue is done to death elsewhere, but the short summary is, if your compression ratio is low enough that RON 91 doesn't ping, you gain nothing by using 95 or 98.  The energy in the fuels is the same, regardless of what the peddlers claim- the difference is in the ability of the high compression engines to extract more power.  If you ain't got the compression, you ain't gonna get the power, regardless of how much of their pre-detonation inhibiting chemicals you buy.

A mate an I on identical BMW's did a 2,500km muli day ride a couple of years back, riding together the whole time.   I put in 91 for the whole trip and he used 95 or 98 for the whole trip.   At each fill we put in an identical amount of fuel.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Jdbiker on April 02, 2022, 08:33:40 AM
The little sticker on the tank of my 2008 ST says use 95RON or above so that’s what I do. In some remote locations l have occasionally used 91 unleaded when nothing else was available with no detrimental effect, never used 91 with added ethanol though.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Brock on April 02, 2022, 03:06:44 PM
I have used E10 fuel, when it was available locally and cheaper than 91. The bike ran just the same for just as far. I really dont think our bikes care so much, they just want to go out and play.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Biggles on April 02, 2022, 06:38:45 PM
The little sticker on the tank of my 2008 ST says use 95RON or above so that’s what I do. In some remote locations l have occasionally used 91 unleaded when nothing else was available with no detrimental effect, never used 91 with added ethanol though.

FWIW, E10 is rated at 94.

By the way, another reason that I'm happy to continue using a higher octane fuel rather than using 91 unleaded is the fact that it can contain up to 10% ethanol.
https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html (https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels/unleaded-with-e10.html)

Another reason not to use BP fuel- it's usually the dearest in town anyway.  I know some riders swear it's the only brand they will use, given the choice.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 02, 2022, 06:42:37 PM
never used 91 with added ethanol though.

Reading that BP link I posted earlier, it would appear you could be using 91 unleaded with added ethanol and you wouldn't necessarily know....  :||||
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Langers on April 02, 2022, 08:46:34 PM
I'm not so sure you'd using BP with ethanol and not knowing it. It appears the Bowser would have a different sticker that says ethanol has been added.
I've only ever used 91 and don't seem to have any issues but I have also thrown in Seaform and injector cleaner on the odd occasion. They appear to be a very forgiving engine.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 04, 2022, 02:12:07 PM
I'm not so sure you'd using BP with ethanol and not knowing it. It appears the Bowser would have a different sticker that says ethanol has been added.

Here are some pics that I took of our local bowser a couple of years back...
As can be seen, there's no indication of ethanol being in the fuel on the main signage.
But, if you look at the fairly small sticker tucked away under the display, there is... :o

(https://i.ibb.co/KGYW0ZF/BP.jpg)

Regardless of that though, if BP (and probably other fuel companies) are replacing their plain 91 unleaded with an ethanol blend, I think I'd rather just play it safe and run a higher octane fuel rather than run the risk of potential long term damage from ethanol.
Of course, in saying that, I have no idea what fuel the previous owner of my bike ran...
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 04, 2022, 02:24:44 PM
Another reason not to use BP fuel- it's usually the dearest in town anyway.  I know some riders swear it's the only brand they will use, given the choice.

I must admit we mainly use BP for all our vehicles.
It probably has something to do with only having 2 servos in town and both are BP...  :||||
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Bodø on April 04, 2022, 05:52:15 PM
It's not new though.  Wild Rose made this post in 2014:

I believe BP 91 has 10% Ethanol. Not for me
I try to run Caltex 95 when I can
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Bodø on April 04, 2022, 05:54:02 PM
And Rusty, you responded to this too:

It seems BP have two ULP 91 products one is standard ULP and the other has 10% ethanol.

But under our advertising laws I think they'd have to state which was which on the pump.

[url]https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels.html[/url] ([url]https://www.bp.com/en_au/australia/products-services/fuels/regular-fuels.html[/url])

In SA I've only seen e10 at Liberty and United and one independant Mobil in Port Pirie

Liberty has replaced PULP (95) with E10 at most of their sites

As for Honda and E10

([url]http://www.imghostr.net/images/2019/06/06/17ead6570a8d5d3f662d24ff2c3e5622.jpg[/url])


That's interesting re: normal unleaded being available...

I just wandered up to my local BP and, now the plot thickens...I spoke to the cashier and he said none of their fuel contains ethanol, this in spite of the sticker below the bowser display clearly saying (even if it was in small print) that 91 Unleaded may contain up to 10% ethanol...

I'm quite happy if that's correct though as my partner has been filling her car there for the last couple of years and had never seen the sticker...   :think1
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 04, 2022, 07:12:13 PM
Yep, still as relevant today as it was back then... :grin

I guess the only way to be sure that you're not inadvertently running a blend is to stick with either 95 or 98 octane.
After all, as JD rightly pointed out, our ST1300's are supposed to be running premium unleaded fuel of at least 95 octane anyhow...  :thumbs
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Bodø on April 04, 2022, 07:30:00 PM
I am pretty sure alan said he used E10 in one of his bikes because the manual said it was okay to do so.  I was looking for that post when those two came up in the search.
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: ruSTynutz on April 04, 2022, 08:12:23 PM
It says something about that in the ST1300 manual as well, but it also says the octane rating has to be at least as high as that recommended by Honda (95).
As our E10 is rated at 94 octane I'd say it probably shouldn't be used.

It also says (in the manual) fuel system damage or engine performance problems resulting from the use of fuels that contain alcohol is not covered under the warranty.
That tells me it's probably best not to use it...  :popcorn
Title: Re: Trouble starting engine cold
Post by: Langers on April 04, 2022, 11:09:20 PM
I must admit I believed 91 was the recommended octane level for the ST1300. I think I got this from my ST's previous owner and I've run with it since 2016. I poured through the owners manual yesterday and there it was - 95 is recommended.
I think at 160,000km on 91 it might be too much of a shock for the old girl to be treated with 95 permanently, not to mention wallet shock!! I think I'll stick with 91 and throw in the occasional 95 or 98 "just in case" it does some good AND keep an eye out for ethanol stickered pumps.