BMW K1600GT vs. Kawasaki Concours 14 vs. Triumph Trophy SE vs. Yamaha FJR1300 R

[saaz]

This may be of general interest

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/comparisons/122_1304_bmw_k1600gt_vs_kawasaki_concours_14_vs_triumph_trophy_se_vs_yamaha/

I can understand why the ST13 was excluded, but it would have been good to have it in the mix to keep them honest, as long as it was not marked down purely for just not being changed very often.  And have a loom at the prices, and how even the relative prices between them are nowhere nwear the same as in Australia. Anyone for a FJR at only $16K?? and that is the new very improved one.

I had another 2 hour test ride on the Trophy the other day.  As such, any of the comments on any of the bikes being a bit heavy etc etc can be taken with a grain of salt, as coming from riding an ST the Trophy felt like a light sports bike to me!  And I would suspect any such negatives on the other bikes would be in the same boat.

Here is a review of the FJR in Australia by comparison from someone who likes fast bikes a bit different to the US test!  (can't seem to find a direct link but it is on the front page http://www.mcnews.com.au/ )

[Down Under]

Interesting read John.  I was disappointed with Yamaha in not making ESA an option on their FJR1300 for Australian riders.  IMHO, the suspension package would be the defining factor for me if I was splashing out big money on a new touring bike. 

I like how the new ESA systems are evolving, such as those used by BMW, Triumph and even Ducati.  I would pay extra money for a bike that not only has a suspension system that can be easily adapted to changing road conditions but has the ability to change the character of the bike on the fly: ie Sport -V- Touring etc.  For me, ride quality is very important and if I'm spending 30K plus for a touring bike I expect it!

I think this is where the likes of BMW and Triumph have the edge on the others in this segment.  I hope Honda goes down the same path with their next evolution of the ST!

Cheers,

Tony

   

         

[saaz]

Totally agree Tony.  I just read a review of the new BMW1000RR HPR version and it seems to have suspension that adjusts continually to road conditions.  I hope Honda announces something on the ST front before too long, as not everyone will wait around at the altar if the bride takes too long to arrive 

[alans1100]

I've never liked the body styling of the Concourse......all those ribs everywhere.
Triumph........3 cyclinders............not to sure on that......wonder how it would go two-up and towing a trailer.
FJR....well an update.....not really a new platform........just as old as the ST1300
BMW.......would have thought they'd design this to take on the Goldwing rather than the ST market.

Ok.......these are all are supposedly built for the ST segment and with that in mind maybe the tests should start including some fully loaded two-up touring with a trailer which some of these bikes will be used for.

[saaz]

The other tests I posted has 2 up impressions. Probably have to wait for owners to do towing impressions.  Having ridden the trophy, it has at least if not more torque and power as the ST11 and ST13 at the same revs and road speed.

[alans1100]

Though I think the Trophy's motor might be working a bit harder at any given speed compared to our 1100 and 1300s.

I'm not up with BMW  history but the 1600 might be their first east-west motor as well

[saaz]

The Trophy does it easily at the same speeds, and is geared roughly the same as the ST.  BMW did/does make inline 4s (the K series) which is east-west.  They did not seem to want to continue the history of the brick motor like they do with the boxer engine.

Though I think the Trophy's motor might be working a bit harder at any given speed compared to our 1100 and 1300s.

I'm not up with BMW  history but the 1600 might be their first east-west motor as well

[Down Under]

Totally agree Tony.  I just read a review of the new BMW1000RR HPR version and it seems to have suspension that adjusts continually to road conditions.  I hope Honda announces something on the ST front before too long, as not everyone will wait around at the altar if the bride takes too long to arrive 

The "Skyhook" suspension system that Ducati is using on their new Multistrada sounds like it might even have a technical edge on what BMW is developing at the moment.  Have a read of this: http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/ducati-multistrada-2013-skyhook-technical.  I can't wait to see this technology become more available generally.

I agree that  Honda has definitely dragged the chain with developing the ST, however they are now in the position to know where the competition is going so there shouldn't be any excuses from Honda for not producing a very modern and technically splendid tourer sometime in the near future!

Cheers,

Tony 

[Biggles]

I agree that  Honda has definitely dragged the chain with developing the ST, however they are now in the position to know where the competition is going so there shouldn't be any excuses from Honda for not producing a very modern and technically splendid tourer sometime in the near future!

Just so long as it has "ST" in the designation so it fits straight into our gang.

[Streak]

Just so long as it has "ST" in the designation so it fits straight into our gang.

Gang  now that I would like to see ha ha ha

[alans1100]

I agree that  Honda has definitely dragged the chain with developing the ST, however they are now in the position to know where the competition is going so there shouldn't be any excuses from Honda for not producing a very modern and technically splendid tourer sometime in the near future!

Cheers,

Tony

Honda have to get this right.........I think the basics are there with the VFR 1200 motor and optional DCT transmission and adapting it to the current 1300 configuration.

[Biggles]

Just so long as it has "ST" in the designation so it fits straight into our gang.

Gang  now that I would like to see ha ha ha

Don't laugh- you're the Leader Of The Pack.
We're all back here behind you shouting support!

[Streak]

Just so long as it has "ST" in the designation so it fits straight into our gang.

Gang  now that I would like to see ha ha ha

Don't laugh- you're the Leader Of The Pack.
We're all back here behind you shouting support!

Me leader, ah hell no, I keep telling you all diesel is the eye candy around here!

[Sabie]

As an official honda motorcycle club (gang). I wonder if its possible to have input into Honda regarding what we'd like to see in a new ST, and would Honda be interested in our feedback?

Might be worth testing the waters via some form of correspondence if it hasn't been done already.

[Streak]

As an official honda motorcycle club (gang). I wonder if its possible to have input into Honda regarding what we'd like to see in a new ST, and would Honda be interested in our feedback?

Might be worth testing the waters via some form of correspondence if it hasn't been done already.

So far our gentle  prodding and question asking has come a a bit of a brick wall, so we will have to grow some more before we will get much of a say....

[saaz]

Many have asked the dealers, all the forums keep on asking the question, so perhaps the Honda engineers have been locked away developing an ST?  The VFR1200 was supposedly going to be a game changer, but turned out to be a game changer not many wanted. The ST version should have been the first out of the blocks.  So perhaps now Honda will aim higher and be a bit bolder, rather than the 'safe' approach they have been taking.  Perhaps they forget that the ST11 came out of coming up with something really new in the market?

[Sabie]

I wouldn't like to see the engine size decreased. Some ergonomic work on the seat and riding position would be good. A few more refinements would be good such as a 6th gear, and to incorporate a gear indicator would be good.

[Biggles]

I wouldn't like to see the engine size decreased. Some ergonomic work on the seat and riding position would be good. A few more refinements would be good such as a 6th gear, and to incorporate a gear indicator would be good.

All good calls, and don't forget to add "readable digital display"!

[West Aussie Glen]

I wouldn't like to see the engine size decreased. Some ergonomic work on the seat and riding position would be good. A few more refinements would be good such as a 6th gear, and to incorporate a gear indicator would be good.

All good calls, and don't forget to add "readable digital display"!

I can read the LCD digital display on my 88 GL1500 in all light conditions conditions, with and without my glasses, you wonder what Honda were thinking when they designed the one for the ST1300.
Gear indicators can be easily fitted to 08 on ST1300s.

[Sabie]

Gear indicators can be easily fitted to 08 on ST1300s.
[/quote]


Wouldn't it be better to have one intergrated into the instrument display at the time of manufacture.

[West Aussie Glen]

Yes it would be.

[sac468]

Before I bought my 04 1300, I owned an 84 BMW K100 which had a gear indicator (god I miss it) now there is 20 year difference between the two, surely Honda is not that far behind. I don't even think the new wing has a gear indicator.