OzSTOC
Honda ST1100 Section => Electrics & Electronics - Volts, Amps and Fuses ST1100 => Topic started by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:24:56 AM
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Seeing folk are starting to do their own wiring, its time to put a few hints and how to dos up. And do nots.
Do get a good crimping tool for red yellow and blue crimps. Jaycar has some good ones but they arent cheap
A set of these cat TH1829 are suitable (easily changeable Jaws)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/8c1d15e953a6660c6ae3fef9a0f309d1.jpg)
Or these (my prefered) as these have Quick interchangeable jaws for many jobs cat TH2000
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/327d5c77277486dc9439616871be79b2.jpg)
Do not use anything like these, the performance is less than poor
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/6e01d4992f93a85f1d3814a87f19a6a3.jpg)
New pic soon
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To do a good wiring job, good terminals are needed, not the realy cheap jobs as they dont crimp properly.
The Narva range are good. I prefer to use the pre insulated terminals, or in some cases even the ones with the heat shrink insulation, though these dont have a large range.
Uninsulated crimps can be used, and in some situations are preferred. These will need a heat shrink sleeve fitted. Uninsulated crimps use a different tool than insulated something like this is good for the plug terminals.
(http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_10145.jpg)
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Brock, what is your preferred wire stripper? I use that last tool to do it, as at least it can do that. I use the first crimper, and it works far better to give consistent good crimps. I have an old uninsulated crimp tool that my father had.
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For stripping, I use a knife with a not too sharp blade. It only has to cut the insulation not the wire, I use a thumb nail to remove the sleeve. For aircraft wiring I use a proper stripping tool, though some of those are not so great.
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I have these from ALDI:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Pixtor/Stripcrimp.jpg)
They break all Brock's rules, but I find they work for me.
The stripping function is not left-hander friendly, but does the job neatly.
The range of crimping slots covers my needs.
It also cuts the wire (but always leaves one strand uncut- go figure). :)
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An example of common crimps and one not so common, a socket from a 110 plug
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/80a412cb6e9d70548d0b47881fe1256a.jpg)
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How to crimp a wire to an insulated faston connector
Strip the wire back 7mm, and give the wire a bit of a twist to tighten the lie. Take note of the crimper jaws, some are designed to have parts that crimp the wire into the terminal and the tail of the crimp on to the insulation to support the wire. These jaws are polarised for this task.
(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/299d52da145c5370f2b712a1d24ec87b.md.jpg)
Its sometimes easier to secure the crimp in the crimper jaws
(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/332671f17385291df0abf3c0a72dd0cb.md.jpg)
note the metal shoulder inside the crimp, these are the preferred type.
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The crimp.
(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/69e9ee6aa5aa4c5b2f8f821869f986ee.md.jpg)
The finished job
(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/a51cce11d3f6e9f5e5b0a551cde56abb.md.jpg)
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Uninsulated faston, the type used in plugs, and relay sockets, strip back 7mm
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/5eb44dd4178ab4b82339d1989f5e51e4.jpg)
in the crimping tool
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/bb553cdeb5b6124ca886e94052eca22e.jpg)
Finished product
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/8c712b553ba26d470ee22e005b6b4520.jpg)
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110 Plug pin, strip wire 5mm. These are the plug type used all over the bike. I would suggest that 3 mm diameter wire would be the maximum for these pins, as the crimp action wont work properly on larger, 4mm may work at a pinch 5mm no. 16 gauge aircraft wire will fit, as the insulation is thinner.
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/1ee73a06c17bb15fa81cdf56913e9c79.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/330f3d117e4eea9f318485b52d9dd850.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/45655a10fb87b12a5d4073c2b47679ff.jpg)
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Un-insulated terminals, as used on battery connections, strip back 7 - 8 mm
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/8e45730229479f1f236f1be7261acf1b.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/d21fb69531bc920c19a8a0acf9dd9477.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/6a45d836fd79541aea039c10e2b3882d.jpg)
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One tool, three jaw sets
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/c85e52c0e5a56cbcb5b7684ddae0f89c.jpg)
The un-insulated terminals could be done with this tool, this tool also does the Anderson plugs used in the Jumper lead mod
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/15/ec95bc69b381a1174782c20653c9dd2e.jpg)
My crimp tool kit, also does coax plugs for TV and CB radios and telephone connectors
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/15/b934eaf500ceeae07c81fdc5b0378fa5.jpg)
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Explains everything. Once crimp you should also tug on the wire to give one final check. :thumbs
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No need to tug on those ones, using the right wire, crimp and tool means a good job every time.
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:wht11 py
Thats bloody good Brock , Where can one get a crimp kit like that
(trade price would be nice) :grin :p
Tipsy
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Think I got everything from Jaycar, except for the Anderson Plug crimping tool, got that on the net from www.agwholesalers.com.au (http://www.agwholesalers.com.au)
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:wht11 py
Thanks Mate
Tipsy
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Great post thanks Guru. Looking forward to your 'heat shrinking' post next. :popcorn
Cheers, Diesel
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Heat shrinking is reasonably easy, just gotta watch the heat. Only want shrunk sleeving, not burning wiring.
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The hardest thing about heat shrinking is remembering to put the heat shrink tube on the wire before putting on the connectors :|||| A larger size heat shrink tube can still work sometimes.
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I've had this Iroda 120 soldering and heat shrink iron for several years now and love it. There's no need for extension cords, though it's for the smaller jobs, not battery terminals.
http://www.pro-iroda.com/pro120.htm (http://www.pro-iroda.com/pro120.htm)
Vega
Dave
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Woo Hoo, Hydraulic crimper arrived
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/338b8bbb191cb3bc837774c8b007b008.jpg)
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I got mine last week.Impressive bit of gear!
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Did a test crimp, on a wire that was a little small for the crimp. Excellent result....
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I think 8 tonne crimping should be the punishment from now on....unfortunately I have done all those crimps in the last week so have to look around for something to crimp...
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The smaller dies would be great for fishing traces.
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I think that there are lots of applications beyond crimping, I just have to remember I have the tool!
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Think I got everything from Jaycar, except for the Anderson Plug crimping tool, got that on the net from [url=http://www.agwholesalers.com.au]www.agwholesalers.com.au[/url] ([url]http://www.agwholesalers.com.au[/url])
Hi Brock, does the Anderson plug need a different tool only because it's bigger?
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Like TerryDJ - I hads to get me a better crimping solution. Wot thuh
Thanks for costing us $65.00 Brock! :crazy
This just arrived today - 5 sets of dies (jaws) for different apps, and a nice ratchet crimp......
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2zgaov7.jpg)
Cheers, Diesel
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does the Anderson plug need a different tool only because it's bigger?
Thats correct Rob, it needs this tool
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/206345be1a876f8e91748f3fc009de9e.jpg)
Or the 8 Ton Hydraulic crimper with the correct jaws fitted
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Hey Brock, fantastic pics mate, a picture tells a thousand words, and these are really clear and concise. Well done mate, good work. :thumbs :thumbsup
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Like TerryDJ - I hads to get me a better crimping solution. Wot thuh
Thanks for costing us $65.00 Brock! :crazy
This just arrived today - 5 sets of dies (jaws) for different apps, and a nice ratchet crimp......
Cheers, Diesel
"WOW" that's a great bit of gear.
Mate where did you get that, me thinks me got gotta get one
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I used the hydraulic crimper for making new wire stays for yachts.
45 years as a sparky and used it about half a dozen times for that.
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We sparkys can think side ways, comes from working with stuff you cant see that bites if you cockup..
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"WOW" that's a great bit of gear.
Mate where did you get that, me thinks me got gotta get one
Your favourite shop Champ - fleabay!!!!
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Dies-Ratchet-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-Kit-Bootlace-Open-Barrel-Non-Insulated-AU/264606238594?hash=item3d9bc2c782:g:UMYAAOSwu19e4Lxk (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Dies-Ratchet-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-Kit-Bootlace-Open-Barrel-Non-Insulated-AU/264606238594?hash=item3d9bc2c782:g:UMYAAOSwu19e4Lxk)
Cheers
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Sorry for the delay just found out how to use Photobucket.
This is what I use.
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/vegapup/Honda%20ST1100/099_zps5f2c286c.jpg)
Cheers
Dave
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Never trusted those crimping tools very much. Tried some, crushed insulators, cracked alloy tags - YUK ! :(
Which ever type is used, and admittedly some are MUCH better than others, I just never really trust them. :p
Due to old habits and ancient training - I usually try to slide the insulating material back off the tag and up along the wire.
Then using pre-tinned end of the wire, solder the wire into / onto the tag. :thumb
Where ever possible using only solid brass, copper or if needed, silver or gold plated tags. :thumbsup
If possible, slid the original insulator back into place or insulate with several layers of 'heat-shrink' tubing.
The result, if done correctly, is a very low resistance join that has minimum electrical resistance (less heat) and tends not to pull apart. :grin
Just my strange old fashioned was of doing things - but it's always worked very well on all my bikes from my first BSA 10 (back in 1966) to my current ST1100. (1998 Ex-WA Police) :hatwave
:wht11
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The crimping tool above Flip, is a very good one that doesnt damage the crimp. Its those nasty stamped metal ones that are rubbish. The crimper above means you can crimp all day, and the last one is exactly the same quality as the first. ( Mind you, the same can be said of the superchamp things, all crap)
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What you say about that crimping tool may be very true - but Brock, you must remember, that apart from electronics, I'm from the 'old school' of self taught bike-fixer-uppers in the back of dad's garage on old pommie bikes - BSA A10 - TRIUMPH T-110, things like that - where steel and pure physical strength was what counted :cuss >:() :|||| - not technical the wonderful innovations of todays bikes. :thumbsup
What can a few more ft/lbs of torque on this bolt hurt ? :wink1
MMMM ! Better tighten this screw up just a bit more. :thumb
Need to be sure this nut is tight enough - better belt the end of the spanner with a hammer a few times. :wink1
This probably explains why I've started to leave most of the work on my ST to the properly trained mechanics at Honda these last few years - less self inflicted damage ! :thumbsup
AND - more time for traveling / touring / riding ! :hatwave
After being away for a year - HOPEFULLY, I'll get the ST1100 back from it's check & tune-up today or tomorrow sometime ! :runyay
Going to be a bit different on Aussie roads again after spending most of the past year riding around Sai Gon.
Back to the left hand side of the road again instead of the R H side, riding the wrong way up one way streets, alleyways, footpaths or whatever gets you where you're going.
Three and a half million motorbikes, plus cars, taxis, trucks, buses, motorized tri-thingies. NONE of who give way to anything smaller that themselves.
Cong An (police) who let you get away with anything - for the right amount paid up immediately as a 'beer money' on-the-spot-fine. (cost of fine depends on the value of your vehicle)
Traffic lights are used just to warn you that something else is probably going to come from another direction and try to run you over - - -
Stop at a red traffic light ??? WHY ??? Nobody else does ! :butt :butt :butt Something will probably run you down from behind if you do stop ! :cuss
:wht11
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I have just updated the picture links for this post, seeing Photobucket buggered everything up and we have a lot of new members who might be interested in the art of crimping,
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Much appreciated, Brock! :thumbs
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Here is an example of why you should crimp, and what happens in the jaws of a Hydraulic crimper.
This is an Anderson plug pin that has been hacksawed in half and polished to show the crimp structure.
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/97d0b1d818270e3ffb75f4097d8fea5e.jpg)
As seen through a digital microscope... ( and I thought it was polished, it sure feels smooth)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/535843c57465f452198b4097d851541e.jpg)
Really zoomed in, too bad its only 720P you can see the boundary of the terminal and the wire, but not the individual wires.
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/91e9d18e1e4f60044a86b90b21461886.jpg)
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Thanks Brock. Fascinating.
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I think I will do examples of flood soldering in the Anderson plug and tinning the wire prehand, should be interesting
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I think I will do examples of flood soldering in the Anderson plug and tinning the wire prehand, should be interesting
I know you need something to do but:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjG6-PxNBs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjG6-PxNBs)
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Precisely why I want to show the difference between just flood soldering and tinning then soldering the wire in.
Flood soldering may not penetrate the wire bundle fully.
I even made that suggestion on the video..
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Flood soldering may not penetrate the wire bundle fully.
Thanks. I was very interested to hear what you had to say. I'd always considered it a no-no, but my official soldering training was unofficial, and my 'skill' was regularly (and still is) mocked by the technicians I worked with.
Yet the guy on the video seems to think it's a good thing to do.
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I found that using resin cord you get little build up of flux on top of the pool of solder thereby tinning the wire as it goes in. But I haven't destructed one to see that it did. A lot would probably depend on the state of the wire.
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to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.
The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.
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to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.
The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.
That matches the training I had on the High Reliability Hand Soldering course in 1991.
Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
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to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.
The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.
Thank goodness that's for thick bundles! The gauges of wire I use get covers all the strands with a bit of tinning (checking both sides, the bottom can miss out).
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I did mine in 72, and again in 73 ( radio course and the Elecfit course) and again a few more times when I did advanced electronic repair and multi layer circuit board repair courses..
No I cant see the tracks on the boards with out a microscope.
:|||| :||||
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Just bumping this thread again for new members.
The information contained here is from my Airforce training and 50 years of experience..