STig has Electrickery GRRRRemlins !!

[ST2UP]

So here is my tail of woe......well the bikes anyone 

Battery  a couple of years old and lives on a 800ma CTEK......


About 2 months ago went to start bike and got a constant rythmic F1 light flash in unison with the fuel cut off relay clicking and no fuel pump engagement.....no code could be taken as the F1 was never ending.....so I believed was the battery and replaced with a 230 plus CCA and all was well again.

 I had used bike a few times without issue over last month and forgot to put CTEK back on so did so about a week ago. Went to ride yesterday, disconected from charger and the F1 / Fuel cut off realy click was back again without the fuel pump relay again. I beleive it may have been the CTEK at fault after I put another 15 charger on for just 2 mins and all was good......I removed charger and started stopped bike a few times over next few minutes without issue. Now thinking I had found the problem in the CTEK I rode off to undertake a little farkling project with a mate.

We were making over mirror mounts for the ST and did have the ignition on quiet a few times with screen up and down to check clearances......when leaving F1 / Clicking and no fuel pump, so no start.

Put a 8amp CTEK on as I did at home and no change....12.8Volts, attempted jump start 14.5 volts and same.

All fuses checked, Kill switch is heard working at its relay, all farkles disconected,  Battery contacts re-cleaned, Bike earth under tank spanner checked, Fuel pump given direct 12V then works, 13.3 volts at Battery after on charge for the night, removed Air filter house to check for the dreeded  mouse nest and no sign of rodents at all and disconnected the battery completely fro 30 mins to do ECM reset.

With key on, F1/ fuel cut off clicking/ No fuel pump priming 9.2 volt at pump, 4.2 Volts at Relay, 4.2 at ECM by testing at dealer diag plug.

Bike is looking at a trailer ride tomorrow home to put a mates ST1300 beside to do some voltage checks....


Anythoughts before I trailer the bike to a Real Honda dealer hundreds of K's away.....PLEASE 

[cravenhaven]

I'm not sure if I have read this correctly but after the recharge and with the key on, what is the battery voltage?.

[ST2UP]

Generaly just under 13.0 Volts

It's an intermittent Voltage issue......just which sensor is it 

Kill switch, Bank angle, ECM, side stand, earth leakage etc etc.....

 

[Brock]

What is battery voltage on Crank???

The symptoms are of a dead battery, just because it sharges to 12.8V doent mean it has full capacity. The chattering relays are a sure sign.  The tip over sensor just kills ignition in event of a fall, and is reset by turning off ignition ECM wont give proper engine monitoring if it has no volts. If kill switch is dud then you wont get crank, so relays wont chatter (unless power is really low)

What lrad did you use to jump start and where did you connect it. If the lead is too thin then you wont get enough voltage under load for a start.

[ST2UP]

I can add that we also took the new SSB battery 230 cca out of the equation and added a mates new 220 CCA from his Tiger = No change 

[Brock]

Hmm,

That makes it harder, difficult to fault find from here.

[cravenhaven]

There is a load resistor in series with the battery which sits on top of the battery on the 1300. It might be worthwhile checking the voltage on the output side of that to help diagnosis.

Allan

[Brock]

I'm not sure what is on top of the battery, it may be a fuse, but there is no load resistor

[ST2UP]

Yeah  I know the "thing" will do.....


cheers

[tj189]

I don't have a clue, so this is random....earth

[StinkyPete]

Electricity is close to black magic, but someone else had advised that electricity is actually smoke.    If the smoke leaks out of the wires, the electricity is gone.   If you haven't seen the smoke, then the electricity is still in there somewhere, and it's just a matter of finding it.

Glad to be able to help.   

[STroppy]

Electricity is close to black magic, but someone else had advised that electricity is actually smoke.    If the smoke leaks out of the wires, the electricity is gone.   If you haven't seen the smoke, then the electricity is still in there somewhere, and it's just a matter of finding it.

Glad to be able to help.   

Love it Pete, I'm going to put that in my vault for future use!

[Lionel]

StinkyPete says "If the smoke leaks out of the wires, the electricity is gone."
I never knew that.
It's common knowledge that electronic components run on black smoke. When the black smoke escapes the component fails.
It also explains why people generally replace failed electronic components rather than repair them. Its just too hard without specialist workshop tools to get the black smoke back in.   

[atoyot]

Joe Lucas (AKA The Prince of Darkness) never understood that principle of electrickery either!

[saaz]

I hate these sort of problems as they can take ages to track down. I will have a look at a ST1300 wiring diagram and see what is in/controls those circuits. Brocks comment about classic dead battery seems right, so what else is in those circuits that would mimic this dud connection, relay(s) itself. One check might be when the issue arises, bypass the intermediate systems and connect the battery directly to the starter relay output side to turn over the strater motor . Starter relays can go bad on any vehicle. Be wary when doing this as all the safety cutout features will be disabled - sidestand, clutch in etc. - and of course one of those might be the problem.

Voltage to the starter relay to trigger it may be insufficient (starter button circuit). Are the fuses in the starter circuits ok?

I will put a link up to this on a close ST forum to get some other ideas as most of those guys have been around STs and other vehicles a long time.

[Hendo]

No expert on the ST1300, but I know a little about electrickery.

If I interpret what has already been said, the problem is that there is no fuel pump operation because the relay is chattering. Forget even trying to start till you get that fixed. You initial email indicated you have 9.2V at the fuel pump and 4.2v at the fuel pump relay. Looking at the cct diagram the fuel pump coil (in the relay) is fed +12v from the bank angle relay. ( this line also feeds just about every other sensor and the ECU as well ) and what I assume to be earth also from the ECU.

I would check that you are able to get power first. ie pull out the fuel relay and check you have +12v on pins 30 and 85(Black w white trace), if not then trace back through to the bank angle relay pin 30 (Blue w Pink trace)  for +12v ( this is fed from fuse L (20A FI, Coil Pump)).

If there appears to be +12v everywhere I would suggest there is an Earth Missing somewhere in the system causing all the voltages to float effectively.

Don't forget the fuel pump is only on for a few seconds when you turn the key

Hope this helps

Hendo

[ST2UP]

There is a load resistor in series with the battery which sits on top of the battery on the 1300. It might be worthwhile checking the voltage on the output side of that to help diagnosis.

Allan

Thanks Allan....check and same both sides 

[Brock]

Have you tried starting with the bike in neutral, I cant see any where that you did that. It could be the clutch switch or neutral switch.

[ST2UP]

Yeah thanks Brock in Neutral.....confirmed by dash light and rocked bike 


Seams to be power to the fuel shut off Relay that is the issue, but relay is fine 

[ST2UP]

I think I need a hug    This is not the place for a ST 





Thanks to Odyssey Rider for the loan of his trailer 

[Shiney]

Now that's something I haven't seen before, an ST that hasn't been in an accident on a trailer

                          

[Brock]

I dont have a decent 1300 wiring diagram, so its a bit difficult to problem hunting.

[Biggles]

At least it's being taken to hospital in a professional looking ambulance.

Where do I send flowers?     

[JC]

I can add that we also took the new SSB battery 230 cca out of the equation and added a mates new 220 CCA from his Tiger = No change 

It really does sound like low volts.

My replacement ST arrived from Sydney with an open circuit battery. My lightweight jumper leads were not good enough to get the engine to crank. The heavy leads that I keep in my 4WD helped it fire straight up.

Did the battery from the ST start your mate's bike?
Like Brock was asking, what are the terminal volts on the battery when you press the starter button?

Regards
John

[ST2UP]

I have progressed just a little further in my diagnostic attempts.....I have a another ST1300 sitting beside STig now. Plan has been to do voltage check comparisons etc.

And Battery from other ST doesn't start STig either....haven't done Visa-versa  thanks JC 


We have a cracker of a young bike mechanic here in town who mostly played with Kwaka's and now chooks chasers, farm bikes of all manner he is coming with a few tricks in his bag this afternoon....