Author Topic: Fork seal replacement  (Read 9882 times)

Offline kappy5003

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Fork seal replacement
« on: August 21, 2013, 09:37:27 PM »
I pulled the front wheel off this arvo, removed the disc's, going to get my wheel straightened, new disc's and pads. May do the wheel bearings while I'm at it, even thought they fell alright. Does anyone know the life of front wheel bearings, mine has done around 96,000kms and 13 years old.

I am gonna change the oil in the forks, but when taking them of the the triple tree's I could tell there's been a little leakage, there was none the last time I did a tyre. so maybe its time to do the seals as well. Has anyone done them and if so how hard is it and can I get some guidance please.

Are fork seals all the same, as mine is ex Police I think I read some where that they are same as earlier ABS forks, hence anti dive on left and drain plugs on both forks.

Really wont know how much has leaked till I drain them, I saw on another forum that some guys cleaned the dust/dirt from the seals with some 35 mm film. Once again do the seals last longer than the k's on my bike or am I making more work for myself than I need.

Cheers
Kappy
Cheers
Kappy
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Offline Abe

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 08:47:43 AM »
Kappy5003 I did mine not so long ago, 1994 ST1100 (non abs)

Basically, (this is not a step by step but a overview)

You should find a couple of you tube links as well.

I took photo's first, as it was going to be a start/stop process (work).

I measured the top of each fork tube to the top of the triple tree and recorded same.

Loosen the top bolts on both fork tubes before you undo the triple tree bolts, A MUST. (see photo)

Suspended brake caliper with "occy strap" to take the load off the brake line. (see photo)

Drained each fork and measured the amount of oil and recorded same. (see photo)

Washed forks tubes (with springs in) out with petrol to remove and oil and metal finnings. (you will have some) and let them dry in a ventilated area.

I have been informed by a very experienced bike mechanic, don't worry about the "anti dive" it is more show then go.

Replaced oil (I'll try and find the amounts later) and assemble.

Compress fork tubes and assess the rebound, the aim is to get the both forks to be the same, BUT, the "anti dive" fork should work first, hence more oil in that fork.

Assemble, and place fork tubes in the triple trees as mentioned above (measurement) and "finger tight" the top (only) bolts on the tree.

Place your axle through your forks.  You should be able to rotate the axle smoothly.  If not, one of you tubes needs moving up or down. VERY IMPORTANT STEP

Once right, torque wrench all bolts (there should the manual on this forum somewhere) and reassemble

Sorry, there's no doubt there are little points I've missed out on, but others will chime in and help out or correct.

I made this to assist with the top of the forks:-



This helps getting past the handlebar, due to risers






Off to work, will follow up tonight.

Cheers
Dave
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 09:02:13 AM »
Thanks Abe,
I love pics. :rockon

I didn't measure between top of fork and triple tree, from memory the last time I had them out to get them straightened and when I reinstalled was near on flush. I was told the amount you have the fork above or below the top triple tree will affect the handling, apparently racers play with this for a particular affect, so the story goes..

I eagerly await the next instalment. :popcorn
Cheers
Kappy
Cheers
Kappy
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Offline Abe

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 09:47:27 AM »
Interesting that, you learn something new everyday.  (like I got work tomorrow not today, D'head)

Mine was 2mm from the top of the triple tree to the underside of the bolt.

Used Castrol fork oil 10, and very happy.

Cheers
Dave
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Offline Abe

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 09:52:41 AM »
Some good info for you:-

http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie/guides/fork_oil.htm

I have used Castrol fork oil 10, but I do not ride everyday, but do around 300-500kms when I do ride.

I'm more then happy with the feel and the response of the front end.
At my age " getting lucky" is remembering what I came in the room for ;)

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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 10:01:17 AM »
I was leaning towards castrol 10wt.

I can't remember how the fork settings go, I think for track work the more the tube is above the triple tree, could be wrong, the main things is their the same.

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline Abe

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 10:22:54 AM »
They may not be the same as the triple tree may not be straight, fork length may differ, that is why:-

"Assemble, and place fork tubes in the triple trees as mentioned above (measurement) and "finger tight" the top (only) bolts on the tree.

Place your axle through your forks.  You should be able to rotate the axle smoothly.  If not, one of you tubes needs moving up or down. VERY IMPORTANT STEP"


I found that bit of info on the net somewhere.
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 04:07:46 PM »
Well I have admit I been having a real nervy at doing the forks off AnaSTasia so I've been scouring the net  :CB--for some video on the matter and this morning stubbled across a number of them, most saying you need 8 hands and special tools Blah  :eek. Until I came across one that just happened to be a guy in the UK doing the seals of  :wht11, presumption by accent.
Delboy's Garage, How-To replace regular type fork seals.

So I watched with interest downloaded to my HDD so I wont have to download again and immediately went out to the shed and started playing with the left fork as that appears to be the easiest.
Just happened to have 17mm Allen Key
 
Undid fork cap and empty oil, boy did it stink and discovered only about 350mm.

removed spring and appeared in good nick measured the length approx 474mm which if I'm using the correct specs
is still the same length as new and as can be seen the standard spring is a progressive spring, so I don't see myself changing the spring unless someone can come up with a convincing argument to change.
http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie/guides/fork_oil.htm
I feel confident the fork specs' are for ABS model 1995 and earlier and the  spring length seems to match. I read somewhere that ST1100P used the same forks as early ABS models.
Having pulled the front wheel off and had the tyre removed, the bearing appear ok so not gonna change them, will drop the wheel of in Wangara  next week to get it straightened get the seals, new discs/pads new tyre and we're getting there.

But I'm pretty convinced the seals need doing and after seeing the You tube I have a new level of confidence.

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline Gavo

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 07:22:57 PM »
Wow, how easy was that ?

Now I ve seen it done  I know I can do that !

Excellent how to vid


Great find :thumbs
Rob
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 07:26:44 PM »
Well like a kid in a lolly shop, I have completely dismantled the left hand fork.

Even cleaned the bottom section, May tackle the right fork tomorrow. Wish I had the seals handy could have had them reassembled over the weekend, never mind.

When I undid the fork damper stud I got a lot more oil so the total is around 420 mls.

Cheers
Kappy
Cheers
Kappy
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 07:30:03 PM »
Yes Gavo
I now wonder what all the hesitation was about.

Re assembly may need an extra hand, but as in the Vid shows, can be done on ya Pat.
Cheers
Kappy
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Offline saaz

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 09:30:12 AM »
The forks on the police models are the same as early ABS models, so spring length and fork oil height are police spec. Police models used the equivalent of 10w fork oil.

The front wheel bearings in mine are the originals I think, but in any event have done either 207,000kms or at least 140,000kms on a 96 model.

I use an pvc pipe slit down the side as a seal driver.
John
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 10:52:07 AM »
saaz, would I be correct in assuming the correct specs for Police models would be the same as
the middle specs of this link http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie/guides/fork_oil.htm.

The oil that cam out of the left and the spring length seem to fit.

Do you know if all for seals are the same??

Cheers
Kppy
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Kappy
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Offline alans1100

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2013, 11:01:22 AM »
I've just checked the three 95 models and they all use the same forkseal

http://www.st-1100.com/st1100-parts-fiche-front-fork-st1100ps.html
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Offline saaz

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2013, 11:45:53 AM »
Seals on early ABS and all standard bikes are the same.  The specs in that link are correct if you follow the early abs figures.

I have the Honda police supplement to the Honda manual if that would be of use, as it has all the wiring diagrams as well.

saaz, would I be correct in assuming the correct specs for Police models would be the same as
the middle specs of this link http://www.pan-europe.utvinternet.ie/guides/fork_oil.htm.

The oil that cam out of the left and the spring length seem to fit.

Do you know if all for seals are the same??

Cheers
Kppy
John
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2013, 03:43:56 PM »
saaz, thanks for reminding me I knew I had the full manual somewhere.

I pulled the right fork to pieces this morning.
Spring length 472mm 2 mil shorter than left fork but still ok.
Fluid removed 400 ml should be 372ml and quite a lot cleaner than the left fork. Both oil levels were a bit higher than specs, re checking the left fluid level turns out about 450ml, that should be 418ml.
Wonder what affect that would have on handling.
When cleaning the top tube I discover something in the bottom of tube see pic, looks like a little bit of wire.
Doesn't belong here  I think.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 05:48:56 PM by kappy5003 »
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Offline saaz

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2013, 07:31:14 PM »
I also have an pdf of the owners manual for a 95 police model somewhere.  That wire should not be there. May have been used to hold the damper rod while putting the clip in to hold the spring?
John
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2013, 10:24:00 AM »
Is there any thoughts on why there was a difference in the condition of the fork oil, L/H real dirty and stinky and R/H no smell and still with some colour.

I've done over 25,000K's since since purchase.

Is it really likely that prior to retirement that one fork was serviced and not the other
Does one fork work harder than the other? :think1

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline alans1100

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2013, 11:59:27 AM »
Is there any thoughts on why there was a difference in the condition of the fork oil, L/H real dirty and stinky and R/H no smell and still with some colour.

I've done over 25,000K's since since purchase.

Is it really likely that prior to retirement that one fork was serviced and not the other
Does one fork work harder than the other? :think1

Cheers
Kappy

Presumably both my fork seals were done at about 80,000 kms and it was my RH that failed. But from the condition of your LH fork oil (anti-dive on that one) I can guess the oil on that side might do a bit more work and maybe more pressure on the seal as well. It's only a theory.

My RH fork seal is failing again where as my LH is ok and it seems coincidental that your LH and my RH (ABS) both have anti-dive valving.
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2013, 01:22:46 PM »
So as your is 1999 and mine 2000 but ex Police that uses same forks as earlier ABS and the anti dive mechanism is on either side.

The only other possibility is around 2010 I had my Forks straightened, unless the guy pulled the right one apart, I didn't ask just paid to have forks and triple trees straightened.

Or quite simply the anti dive mechanism works the forks harder, just an observation really.

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2013, 08:53:06 AM »
So now I have new seals and new bushes, got them from david silver spare, well priced and as it turns out genuine honda parts.

But now I need some guidance, it been some time since disassembled the fork, now I'm not sure which way the seal go back in. :-[

So any guru's out there maybe able to assist.

The pic of the forks in the manual aren't really clear enough.

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline saaz

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2013, 08:26:44 PM »
The part of the seal that has the spring in it goes downwards

So now I have new seals and new bushes, got them from david silver spare, well priced and as it turns out genuine honda parts.

But now I need some guidance, it been some time since disassembled the fork, now I'm not sure which way the seal go back in. :-[

So any guru's out there maybe able to assist.

The pic of the forks in the manual aren't really clear enough.

Cheers
Kappy
John
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2013, 09:25:09 PM »
Thanks John

However on inspecting the new seal there is a spring in both sides.

New I should have put a mark on the old seal like video said, thought I would remember  :H another grey moment.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 07:15:52 AM by kappy5003 »
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Offline kappy5003

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2013, 08:34:19 PM »
I've replaced bushes and seals and was about to do the fluid and I can't seem to find the doc I had that gave the fluid amount and measurement, can anyone point me in the correct direction.

Cheers
Kappy
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Offline Big Gaz

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Re: Fork seal replacement
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2018, 06:39:01 PM »
Just found my rh seal is leaking , is this a difficult job to do and is there any step by step instructions available .Also est cost through a workshop.
Cheers  :dred11
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