OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ruSTynutz on December 12, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
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Those contemplating buying an EV may find this article helpful, especially if you're looking at doing long trips... :popcorn
http://tinyurl.com/33dkt95v
John Cadogan's take on it:
https://youtu.be/IS5JPqZcdI0?si=hjM4b4uje_DBWKbo
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:Stirpot
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No stirring intended, Steve... :beer
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What is interesting though is that it cost more to charge up the EV than it cost for petrol doing the same trip in her old Corolla.
Then there's the extra time spent waiting for enough charge to make it to the next charge station and to top it off the extra hassle involved with payment... :o
Think I'll stick with my little diesel! :grin
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Cadigan is just a bloviating oil shill,now that he is sort of internet famous.
I drove Brisbane to Cairns over 2 days, and back over 3 days for $228.60, including the final charge at home. The return trip was only slower because we were catching up with family.
Keep sniffing fumes, paying through the nose for petrol, and fit very expensive servicing. The Saudis thank you for your loyalty, and spreading their BS unpaid.
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Keep sniffing fumes, paying through the nose for petrol, and fit very expensive servicing. The Saudis thank you for your loyalty, and spreading their BS unpaid.
I assume you're still sniffing them as well unless your Spyder is battery powered! ;-*
Cheers :beer
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Barely ride it, the Tesla is too much fun.
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That's a bit sad re your Spyder... :fp
While it's great you're loving your Tesla and I'm sure you're not on your own, it doesn't hurt to acknowledge the possible downsides of EV ownership, which my original post was doing.
The drive from Sydney to Melbourne article had nothing whatsoever to do with John Cadogan but as he had done a video reporting on it, I included a link.
On the whole, I found the article (and Cadogan's video) quite interesting (and enlightening) so hopefully others did too...
Cheers :beer
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... On the whole, I found the article (and Cadogan's video) quite interesting (and enlightening) so hopefully others did too...
On the whole, I find Cadogan's videos interesting. I also often find him very and unnecessarily coarse (to the point that I won't listen to him in mixed and younger [grandchildren] company) and abrasive. He can also be divisive, perhaps not unlike some of the threads on this and other Forums (any others on here also on ADVRider?).
:whistle
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I mostly agree with you, Michael! :thumbsup
If you can ignore his (at times) crudeness & mocking and just concentrate on the facts etc that he presents, he does make a lot of sense.
That doesn't mean I always agree with everything he says though...
As for threads being divisive at times, I honestly can't see that there's really anything wrong with a bit of healthy discussion (as long as it doesn't get personal) as it can make the forum a bit more interesting...
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I have to skip a lot of Cardogan's intro, especially his tediously long adverts for the stuff he pushes to make money. And his car buying business. And a lot of his sniff snorting sarcasm. After that, if you have a high tolerance for circumlocution, you can often learn something.
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.... circumlocution ....
Who else had to look that up? Come on, be honest!
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.... circumlocution ....
Who else had to look that up? Come on, be honest!
See- you learned something. At least he wasn't heavily into tautology. Although even that might be attributed to him.
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.... circumlocution ....
Who else had to look that up? Come on, be honest!
I thought that was something i had done when i was a little kid... :o
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.... circumlocution ....
Who else had to look that up? Come on, be honest!
I didn't have to look that up. Ignorance is bliss.
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So a quick calculation seems to imply there's something amiss with the figures she's quoted.
I looked up the locations she used for charging and it would appear that she used only EVIE chargers. They quote $0.65/KwH for their 350Kw chargers. So working backwards from that, I figure she used 323KwH for her return trip.
Most EV's use around 16KwH/100km which would equate to 256KwH and $166, but her figures imply 20KwH/100km. So either she was flooring it the whole time, or managed to choose a time with strong headwinds.
And then Her Corolla apparently achieves just over 4L/100km. So it's obviously a hybrid, not an ICE.
So it appears to me that her analysis is seriously flawed and the headline she has created is a lie.
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That's a bit sad re your Spyder... :fp
While it's great you're loving your Tesla and I'm sure you're not on your own, it doesn't hurt to acknowledge the possible downsides of EV ownership, which my original post was doing.
The drive from Sydney to Melbourne article had nothing whatsoever to do with John Cadogan but as he had done a video reporting on it, I included a link.
On the whole, I found the article (and Cadogan's video) quite interesting (and enlightening) so hopefully others did too...
Cheers :beer
The journalist he was referring to, was either a complete numpty, wilfully ignorant, or a paid oil shill. (The EV community discussed the BS in the article in depth)
I can show you heaps of videos of different EVs doing Sydney to Melbourne and return, with no issues at all.
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Our trip to Cairns, (which included towing a trailer in Cairns), used 14.5 kWh/100 km, for a total cost of $228.61 over 3,5857 km using 549.45 kWh.
Combination of Tesla SuperCharger, Evie, Qld Electric Super Highway/ChargeFox chargers, and a couple of freebies in Cairns.
At no stage was I trying to do an eco run. Everywhere was at posted speed limits.
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That is very impressive.
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So a quick calculation seems to imply there's something amiss with the figures she's quoted.
Maybe there is but she did say in her article:
"Though this doesn't count the fuel I start with - just stops - as I didn't count the charge I started with in the EV when working out costs."
And then Her Corolla apparently achieves just over 4L/100km. So it's obviously a hybrid, not an ICE.
I'm not really up with Toyota's various models but pretty sure they didn't have a Corolla Hybrid back in 2011...
What I do find interesting though is no-one is commenting on the issues she had with the way less than quoted range of the Hyundai, the pain in the bum requirements to have different apps and the lack of connectivity when attempting a charge.
Then of course there is the extra time lost while charging, plus possible range anxiety, both being an issue for some when attempting to cover long distances...
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Then of course there is the extra time lost while charging, plus possible range anxiety, both being an issue for some when attempting to cover long distances...
Something I don't have to worry about with my little diesel as it could do the Sydney to Melbourne run non-stop easily and still have plenty of fuel left to explore the city before even thinking about re-fueling! :grin
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There seems to be another problem cropping up for EVs in the states, according to a clip I watched some where.
Low lifes are stealing the charger cables probably for the scrap metal value. Tho some are blaming the anti EV group for it..
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"Though this doesn't count the fuel I start with - just stops - as I didn't count the charge I started with in the EV when working out costs."
And then Her Corolla apparently achieves just over 4L/100km. So it's obviously a hybrid, not an ICE.
I'm not really up with Toyota's various models but pretty sure they didn't have a Corolla Hybrid back in 2011...
What I do find interesting though is no-one is commenting on the issues she had with the way less than quoted range of the Hyundai, the pain in the bum requirements to have different apps and the lack of connectivity when attempting a charge.
Then of course there is the extra time lost while charging, plus possible range anxiety, both being an issue for some when attempting to cover long distances...
She "filled" the EV within 130km's of Sydney, so it arrived back with more than half a "tank". She doesnt say where she would have filled the Corolla, but its probably not within cooee of Sydney.
I'd be very surprised to hear of a standard ICE doing 4l/100km at highway speeds, but prepared to be educated!.
Fuel economy lies have been told since cars were being sold. Some of us recall whn the government had to step in and mandate that advertising had to include highway cycle and town cycle figures. For some reason this doesnt seem to apply to EV's unfortunately. The other problem with EV range figures is that thereare competing (and irrelevant) standards for range of EV's. Some manufacturers quote the NEDC figures, which are total rubbish for Australian conditions. The WLTP standards are better but still way off the mark, The EPA is the closest, but is an American standard and doesnt cover all vehicles in Australia. Then of course EV's perform so much better in cities than in the country. I think we've all just learned to live with it and work out the actual range ourselves, just like you do with your ICE. And range anxiety extends to ICE as well, in fact I had exactly that on the same route when riding from Melbourne to Sydney, when I assumed I would be able to fill up at any of the many highway servos, only to find that there werent any on the highway until Tarcutta and I was running on fumes by then.
The billing method for chargers is just woeful and all EV owners are annoyed by it. In the UK the govt finally stepped in and mandated billing to be based on standard credit cards rather than apps and private charge cards. Australian govt is way behind the times here, but the current state and federal govts are stepping up and EV charger companies are finally responding..
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I'd be very surprised to hear of a standard ICE doing 4l/100km at highway speeds, but prepared to be educated!
I could achieve under 5l/100km driving at around 85km/h to 90km/h in my 2005 Honda Civic manual (this was on a trip to Traralgon along the Princes Highway in 2019). What really peeved me is that I could not even do that on the ST1300.
Back in the '80's, the family XF Falcon Wagon (4.1 litre, alloy head, 3 speed auto), we drove from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank. Filled-up at Liverpool just before the entering the Freeway, drove through the night and filled-up again at Kalkallo. Don't remember the details apart from achieving the magic 10l/100km figure.
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:popcorn
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There is no wasted time charging.
I plug in, walk away, go and eat, drink, toilet, unplug, drive away.
My bladder is only good for 2 to 3 hours, so that's when we stop.
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From the Electric Vehicles for Australia FAcebook Group:-
Had a great trip up to Uluru over the New Year. This was to test a car with 163,000 kms on it on a long road trip in 43+ degree heat for the most part of the trip. Car has a range of 340 kms these days. As more EVs hit the secondhand market, hopefully this shows that an older EV with a lot of kms on it can still go the distance.
Car is a S 75 with original battery pack.
Day 1 covered 1,500 kms from Sydney to Adelaide (Supercharger Network)
Day 2 was to Coober Pedy (charging at the brilliant RAA chargers at Port Augusta and Pimba, then Glendambo)
Day 3 To Uluru (charging at Marla, Kulgera and Ghan)
3,151 kms on the way out
On the way back
Day 1 to Coober Pedy (charging at Ghan, Kulgera and Marla)
Day 2 to Mildura (charging at Pimba, Port Augusta, Clare and Morgan)
Day 3 back to Sydney (charging at Hay then Superchargers from Wagga home).
2,960 kms on the way back.
The RAA chargers at Port Augusta and Pimba were fantastic both ways. Marla desperately needs an upgrade from the 7kw charger there. It would've reduced travel time by 2 hours.
Thank you to AEVA for the chargers at Glandambo and Kulgera! Those were fantastic. Skipped the Glandambo one on the way home by driving a little more efficiently.
The worst charging experience has to be Hay. Only 1 charger there and only 50kw is poor compared to the awesome RAA chargers along the way.
Edit: adding cost. Note I have free Supercharging for Life on this car so the numbers from Sydney to Adelaide or Wagga to Sydney are not indicative of the usual EV expected cost.
Sydney to Adelaide was free.
Adelaide to Uluru:
Adelaide Free with overnight accommodation
Port Augusta $22.24
Pimba $38.90
Glendambo $10
Coober Pedy Free with overnight accommodation
Marla Free RAA charger
Kulgera $10
Erldunda Free
Uluru Free
Uluru to Hay:
Uluru Free
Erldunda Free
Kulgera $10
Marla Free
Coober Pedy Free with overnight accommodation
Pimba $28.40
Port Augusta $25.95
Clare Free
Morgan $18.90
Mildura Free with overnight accommodation
Hay $14.47
Total: $178.86
Then free on the Supercharger network on the way home from Wagga.
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So adding in the additional costs most people would have to pay for the "free" supercharger network.
Assuming 17KwH/100km and $0.70/KwH
Sydney to Adelaide - 17*15*0.7 = $179
Wagga to Sydney - 17*4.6*.7 = $55
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CHICAGO TO NEW YORK IN A TESLA....
The results may surprise you...or perhaps not! :whistle :popcorn
https://youtu.be/WI24gjDr8TI?si=NAV4zzUHJBfFEEYI
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Electric-car charging network Evie increases prices by up to 40 per cent
https://www.drive.com.au/news/evie-hikes-prices-up-to-40-per-cent/
Recharging an electric vehicle now costs more than petrol...
https://youtu.be/OsRrkXiUtV4?si=Gmk7Yf1xPXL1vY9F
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This guy must be incredibly naive!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-14/bassendean-family-plan-australian-ev-caravan-first/103298994 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-14/bassendean-family-plan-australian-ev-caravan-first/103298994)
I actually know him. He’s a good mate of my son. He’s very intelligent.
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Good luck to them all... :thumbsup
It will be interesting to see how that trailer tows with that extra overhang... :popcorn
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:popcorn :popcorn :popcorn
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It could be worse...at least here in Oz, EV owners probably won't have to deal with this issue: :whistle
https://youtu.be/YKbAnOYUigo?si=q7-4DLIzcwqAkMEI
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But...they may have to deal with this:
http://tinyurl.com/az838r (http://tinyurl.com/az838r)
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900km (560 mile) electric v petrol challenge: Same cars, same driving, which was cheaper?
http://tinyurl.com/yr77vafh
You can road trip in an electric car... but it's bloody hard
http://tinyurl.com/49bht6zt
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NEW ZEALAND POLITICS
EVs & plug-in hybrids to pay road user charges from 1 April...
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/506844/evs-plug-in-hybrids-to-pay-road-user-charges-from-1-april (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/506844/evs-plug-in-hybrids-to-pay-road-user-charges-from-1-april)
Got to wonder how long before the Australian Government introduces something similar here in Oz.
Fair enough too, I reckon, as EV owners have been getting a free ride so far when it comes to paying their fair share for road usage & maintenance. |-i
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So much anti EV... why?
You don't have to buy one. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240203/2bdee5769047308cb1e8a106e84fab1f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240203/0fdfa5d53521cd0c6ec48bf1278d38f0.jpg)
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This guy must be incredibly naive!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-14/bassendean-family-plan-australian-ev-caravan-first/103298994 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-14/bassendean-family-plan-australian-ev-caravan-first/103298994)
I actually know him. He’s a good mate of my son. He’s very intelligent.
There is a couple from Perth, 'Atto Girl EV Adventures' and 'Gandalf', who left Perth on boxing day 2023, for a clockwise trip around the paddock, towing a modified pop-top caravan.
The caravan has solar panels, inverter, charger, etc.
Last I heard, they were at Kalgoorlie, close to home.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089625813396&mibextid=ZbWKwL
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So much anti EV... why?
You don't have to buy one.
Not so much anti EV, just helping to educate prospective owners on the downsides of EV ownership!
As for buying one...if Sue & I buy a new car in the foreseeable future it certainly won't be an EV for the following reasons...
Price - paying probably an extra $20,000 over the top of an equivalent ICE vehicle would definitely be out of the question.
Driving Range - with my current car offering around twice the range of an EV why would I want to go for something with way less? I suffer enough range anxiety with my ST1300 at times...lol.
Charging Costs - While people with EVs skite about being able to charge their EV at home for free it's not actually free if you've had to spend probably 20 grand installing solar panels and a battery just so you can do it.
Also, with recent soaring charging costs there doesn't seem to be much difference between that and what it would cost for fuel these days.
Lost time while charging an EV - When I do a road trip I often just want to get to where I'm going in the quickest possible time with the bare minimum of stops and having to possibly wait for access to a charger and the time spent charging means I won't be able to travel as far in a day as I would in my diesel.
Road Tax - With currently no road tax on EVs it's only a matter of time before the Federal Government introduces one which will obviously decrease any advantage an EV MAY have over a ICE vehicle.
Towing - I like to tow a trailer at times and yes, I know I could do that with an EV but that greatly reduces its traveling range, something that is way less of an issue with an ICE vehicle.
Heating & Cooling - Using either in an EV is going to reduce driving range, using either in my diesel makes basically no difference to its fuel consumption.
Cheers :beer
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As you've never owned own, never driven one, never lived with one, and never intend to own one, your 'education' source is solely from oil industry propaganda which you are willingly consuming, because it matches your confirmation bias.
Education requires balance. Not propaganda.
Road Tax doesn't exist. It was overturned in the High Court. People are getting refunds, with interest.
Running costs are so much cheaper. $109 maintenance for one 40,000 km travelled. Mostly charged for free, and those two combined can compensate for the higher purchase price really quickly.
Because of renewables, Energy is getting so cheap AGL, Origin, OVO, and others, are offering EV plans which include 0.08c/kWh during the day from 10:00am to 2:00 pm and after midnight until 4 or 6 am.
2nd hand EVs start from around$15,000
A new GWM Ora in Qld can be bought from $37,470, and then is eligible for a $6,000 rebate from the State Government.
Hearing and cooling with a heart pump is very cheap on energy. A Tesla could run the AC in the show for over 7 days and still drive off. An ICE would reboot the tank on less than 24 hours.
But go ahead with your obsessive tilting against EVs, and I'll keep enjoying mine whilst saving loads of money.
You can keep throwing your money at the House of Saud from Saudi Arabia.
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Road Tax doesn't exist. It was overturned in the High Court. People are getting refunds, with interest.
I never said it did!
But, as we get more and more EVs on the road and the fuel excise stream gets less and less do you honestly believe some kind of "road tax" won't be imposed on EVs?
Someone has to pay for our roads and currently EV owners are getting a free ride...
Running costs are so much cheaper.
Maybe so but if you factor in the cost of comprehensive insurance as part of "running costs" which can be double the price (or more) of a comparable sized ICE vehicle things don't look quite so good.
2nd hand EVs start from around$15,000
That's yet another reason I'm not an EV fanboy, EVs don't hold their value, depreciation is quite a bit more than an ICE vehicle...
You can keep throwing your money at the House of Saud from Saudi Arabia.
I'm happy to as I rather enjoy riding my ST1300 and driving my little diesel... :grin
Cheers :beer
Oh, nearly forgot this one:
As you've never owned own, never driven one, never lived with one, and never intend to own one, your 'education' source is solely from oil industry propaganda which you are willingly consuming, because it matches your confirmation bias.
Not quite true, I owned a Tesla EV (https://www.scootersaus.com.au/large-mobility-scooters/monarch-tesla-ii/) for a number of years... :whistle
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Running costs are so much cheaper.
Maybe so but if you factor in the cost of comprehensive insurance as part of "running costs" which can be double the price (or more) of a comparable sized ICE vehicle things don't look quite so good.
My comprehensive insurance for my 2022 Tesla is the same price as my 2017 VW Tiguan.
The 2nd hand price of the Tesla is almost twice that of the VW.
Another myth busted.
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My comprehensive insurance for my 2022 Tesla is the same price as my 2017 VW Tiguan.
The 2nd hand price of the Tesla is almost twice that of the VW.
Hardly a fair comparison comparing a 2022 year vehicle against a 5 year older vehicle...
Another myth busted.
Not a myth as far as I'm concerned as I got quotes through AAMI car insurance comparing a 2023 Tesla Y against a 2023 Kia Sportage...
Tesla Model Y Dual Motor Kia Sportage GT-Line Diesel
$1,503.81 per year $726.51 per year
Excess: $1,475 Excess: $900
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My comprehensive insurance for my 2022 Tesla is the same price as my 2017 VW Tiguan.
The 2nd hand price of the Tesla is almost twice that of the VW.
Hardly a fair comparison comparing a 2022 year vehicle against a 5 year older vehicle...
Another myth busted.
Not a myth as far as I'm concerned as I got quotes through AAMI car insurance comparing a 2023 Tesla Y against a 2023 Kia Sportage...
Tesla Model Y Dual Motor Kia Sportage GT-Line Diesel
$1,503.81 per year $726.51 per year
Excess: $1,475 Excess: $900
My Y, the younger car, is actually cheaper to insure than the older, less expensive car....
Both are currently owned and insured.
My real insurance premiums vs subjective quotes, which can be rigged due to changed assumptions, $0 excess vs. $1,200 excess, postcodes, garaging, previous claims, etc
You don't like EVs, simple, don't effin' buy one.
Please stop pontificating on a subject of which you clearly have no experience or real knowledge.
Haranguing owners of EVs and treating them like fools for having bought an EV doesn't make you look clever. It his makes you look like an obsessive (possibly financially vested interest) like an oil worker or shareholder.
Either that, or a supplicant of the Faux News/Sky After Dark (SAD) propaganda network, who definitely are shareholders protecting their vested interests.
I'll discuss this no further, as you appear to be entrenched in the anti EV cult, despite others' lived experiences which are contrary to your limited preconceived misconceptions.
It appears more than the nuts are rusty.
Foxtrot, foxtrot, sierra.
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No need to get personal, Gary! :well
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So much anti EV... why?
You don't have to buy one.
Not so much anti EV, just helping to educate prospective owners on the downsides of EV ownership!
As for buying one...if Sue & I buy a new car in the foreseeable future it certainly won't be an EV for the following reasons...
Price - paying probably an extra $20,000 over the top of an equivalent ICE vehicle would definitely be out of the question.
Driving Range - with my current car offering around twice the range of an EV why would I want to go for something with way less? I suffer enough range anxiety with my ST1300 at times...lol.
Charging Costs - While people with EVs skite about being able to charge their EV at home for free it's not actually free if you've had to spend probably 20 grand installing solar panels and a battery just so you can do it.
Also, with recent soaring charging costs there doesn't seem to be much difference between that and what it would cost for fuel these days.
Lost time while charging an EV - When I do a road trip I often just want to get to where I'm going in the quickest possible time with the bare minimum of stops and having to possibly wait for access to a charger and the time spent charging means I won't be able to travel as far in a day as I would in my diesel.
Road Tax - With currently no road tax on EVs it's only a matter of time before the Federal Government introduces one which will obviously decrease any advantage an EV MAY have over a ICE vehicle.
Towing - I like to tow a trailer at times and yes, I know I could do that with an EV but that greatly reduces its traveling range, something that is way less of an issue with an ICE vehicle.
Heating & Cooling - Using either in an EV is going to reduce driving range, using either in my diesel makes basically no difference to its fuel consumption.
Cheers :beer
Just an add-on as to why I wouldn't buy an EV...
Replacement Battery Cost - The cost of replacing the battery in an EV can cost you an arm & a leg...
I'm sure anyone with the slightest interest in EVs has heard about the Canadian Hyundai Ioniq 5 owner being charged 60,000 Canadian dollars to have his EV battery replaced?
That's not a misprint...That works out to be something like $68,000 Aussie dollars!
Since then another Ioniq 5 owner has come out and confirmed the replacement cost is indeed C$60,000... >:()
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/yikes-the-60000-hyundai-ioniq-5-battery-replacement-saga-continues-226590.html (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/yikes-the-60000-hyundai-ioniq-5-battery-replacement-saga-continues-226590.html)
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ev-battery-icbc-writeoff (https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ev-battery-icbc-writeoff)
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The following video is quite interesting, especially coming from someone who has obviously not been against EVs in the past...
I'm back in a diesel after 4yrs running both EV & PHEV. What needs to change to get me to go back?
https://youtu.be/nZysvgm2_Aw?si=hsaQtM17fAPeFGi4
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:popcorn
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Feel free to comment, skip! :p
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Here ya go ruSTynutz. My thoughts are these. If you want an EV, knock yourself out. Just don't think you are 'saving the planet' by having one. Go hard. Have fun. Have you ever seen the amount of ships criss-crossing the globe transferring crap from one side to another? Ships are one of the most inefficient and polluting forms of transport. Why aren't the "Greenies" protesting about world trade? And aircraft? Another issue.
Tyre wear? Regardless of whether it is an EV or not, worn tyres must be putting 1000's of tons of rubber 'powder' into the waterways etc? EV's aren't immuned to tyre wear as far as I'm aware. An EV is just an automobile with an empty fuel tank. Don't pretend ALL recharge stations are fueled from 'renewables'. Within our little old town of Brisbane and SE Qld, there are hundreds of government owned facilities that have a diesel generator present, and run 24/7, because there is not enough power in the grid to run the facility. FACT. And the government want US to go all 'green and fuzzy" and drive EV's. It is an absolute joke. As I said, if you want one, and can afford one, then enjoy. We now live in a strata unit style living and EV chargers are not an option in our building as there is not enough energy in the grid to allow us to upgrade the supply to our complex. Fact. EV's, solar panels and wind turbines are NOT the answer to an energy crisis. Just sayin'.
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Here's more grist for everyone's mill. EVs are heavier than ICE powered vehicles.
Someone had to sacrifice two very expensive vehicles for this test. And yes, I know, crashworthiness costs heaps regardless of vehicle.
BTW, I suspect the only m/cs crash tested would be Goldwings with airbags.
On every other bike you do your own crash worthiness testing. >:()
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/)
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Here ya go ruSTynutz. My thoughts are these. If you want an EV, knock yourself out. Just don't think you are 'saving the planet' by having one. Go hard. Have fun. Have you ever seen the amount of ships criss-crossing the globe transferring crap from one side to another? Ships are one of the most inefficient and polluting forms of transport. Why aren't the "Greenies" protesting about world trade? And aircraft? Another issue.
Tyre wear? Regardless of whether it is an EV or not, worn tyres must be putting 1000's of tons of rubber 'powder' into the waterways etc? EV's aren't immuned to tyre wear as far as I'm aware. An EV is just an automobile with an empty fuel tank. Don't pretend ALL recharge stations are fueled from 'renewables'. Within out little old town of Brisbane and SE Qld, there are hundreds of government owned facilities that have a diesel generator present, and run 24/7, because there is not enough power in the grid to run the facility. FACT. And the government want US to go all 'green and fuzzy" and drive EV's. It is an absolute joke. As I said, if you want one, and can afford one, then enjoy. We now live in a strata unit style living and EV chargers are not an option in our building as there is not enough energy in the grid to allow us to upgrade the supply to our complex. Fact. EV's, solar panels and wind turbines are NOT the answer to an energy crisis. Just sayin'.
I must say I agree pretty much one hundred percent with what you've said, Skip! :clap
Sorry for the late response, it was just too hard trying to type a reply on my mobile phone...
Now that we've had power restored here in Victoria I'm back on my PC! :runyay
Here's more grist for everyone's mill. EVs are heavier than ICE powered vehicles.
Someone had to sacrifice two very expensive vehicles for this test. And yes, I know, crashworthiness costs heaps regardless of vehicle.
BTW, I suspect the only m/cs crash tested would be Goldwings with airbags.
On every other bike you do your own crash worthiness testing. >:()
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/)
Thanks for the link, Bill...very interesting reading! :thumbs
Speaking of motorcycle crashes, did you know electric scooter fatalities get lumped in with motorcycle fatalities? Well, they do here in Victoria & NSW anyhow... :well
https://www.aaa.asn.au/newsroom/data-failings-prevent-e-scooter-safety-analysis/ (https://www.aaa.asn.au/newsroom/data-failings-prevent-e-scooter-safety-analysis/)
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EVs are heavier than ICE powered vehicles
ICE vehicles are getting heavier also, loaded down with all the "you beaut" tech to make vehicles safer...
Even back when I bought my little 2010 Hyundai i30 diesel (which has bugger-all tech compared to more modern cars) I was surprised it weighed as much as a 6-cylinder 1973 XB Ford Falcon.
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Just had to post this one: :popcorn
Firefighting in Ontario just got greener with the arrival of its first electric fire truck
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/01/25/news/firefighting-ontario-just-got-greener-first-electric-fire-truck (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/01/25/news/firefighting-ontario-just-got-greener-first-electric-fire-truck)
According to the Rosenbauer Group (https://rosenbaueramerica.com/rosenbauer-revolutionary-technology/), the new electric fire truck has a run time of nearly two hours of driving on battery power, enabling it to respond to multiple emergencies on a single charge
And just to make the fire truck even greener, a look at the specs tells me the trucks have an "Auxiliary Power Backup System, a 3.0 Liter 300HP 6 Cylinder BMW Clean Diesel Engine...
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Here ya go ruSTynutz. My thoughts are these. If you want an EV, knock yourself out. Just don't think you are 'saving the planet' by having one. Go hard. Have fun. Have you ever seen the amount of ships criss-crossing the globe transferring crap from one side to another? Ships are one of the most inefficient and polluting forms of transport. Why aren't the "Greenies" protesting about world trade? And aircraft? Another issue.
Tyre wear? Regardless of whether it is an EV or not, worn tyres must be putting 1000's of tons of rubber 'powder' into the waterways etc? EV's aren't immuned to tyre wear as far as I'm aware. An EV is just an automobile with an empty fuel tank. Don't pretend ALL recharge stations are fueled from 'renewables'. Within our little old town of Brisbane and SE Qld, there are hundreds of government owned facilities that have a diesel generator present, and run 24/7, because there is not enough power in the grid to run the facility. FACT. And the government want US to go all 'green and fuzzy" and drive EV's. It is an absolute joke. As I said, if you want one, and can afford one, then enjoy. We now live in a strata unit style living and EV chargers are not an option in our building as there is not enough energy in the grid to allow us to upgrade the supply to our complex. Fact. EV's, solar panels and wind turbines are NOT the answer to an energy crisis. Just sayin'.
I think there's already moves afoot for shipping, such as Hydrogen, some trials with sails etc, but it will take a loooong time before there are any significant advances in pollution reduction from that industry.
Everyone likes to make big statements about EV's being heavier than ICE equivalents. It is true, but only by 10-15%, and as Rusty says, ICE vehicles have increased in weight over the years as well. I've "accidentally" ended up in a parking building a couple of times with my Ranger and old Patrol and have to say that I would not willingly take one into a parking building ever.
Yeah! tyres wear out, same/same, although there is a fair amount of research going into making tyres specifically for EV's so maybe reduced wear might come out of that too. The bit you didnt bother mentioning was the almost complete lack of brake pad wear (which also ends up in our waterways), never mind the manufacturing and disposal waste. Which bring me to Oil, you have to change your oi every 10/20000km in an ICE, but pretty much never in an EV, again, no waste.
And of course the old "coal powered EV" rhetoric. Even though most states in Australia have a greater than 30% generation by renewables now (NSW is over 60% during the day), and its increasing. Is oil/petrol/diesel becoming renewable?. The odd charger around the place running off a diesel generator (would be interested to know where these are?) are thoroughly abnormal as you probably know, and compare that to all the outback roadhouses running permanently on diesel generators to supply petrol and diesel.
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Which bring me to Oil, you have to change your oi every 10/20000km in an ICE, but pretty much never in an EV, again, no waste.
Although in saying that, oil can be recycled...
Is oil/petrol/diesel becoming renewable?.
As far as petrol/diesel goes, the answer is yes.
MotoGP will be using a minimum of 40% synthetic fuel in all the MotoGP classes from this year and by 2027 all MotoGP classes will be using 100% non-fossil fuel...
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Although in saying that, oil can be recycled...
As far as petrol/diesel goes, the answer is yes.
MotoGP will be using a minimum of 40% synthetic fuel in all the MotoGP classes from this year and by 2027 all MotoGP classes will be using 100% non-fossil fuel...
I had completely forgotten about oil being recycled, but upon a bit of investigation found that it is not as rosy as one might believe. It seems that in Australia around 60% of lubricating oils are recycled back to lubricating oil funded at a rate of about 60% by the govt (partially funded by a levy on motor oils that we pay). Other uses are possible, but the lack of government funding precludes their production. In addition, there are only a few oil recycling plants in Australia so collection and transportation of used oil as well as the chemical and energy resources used in reprocessing the oil are a significant (but largely ignored) environmental cost.
Synthetic fuel could be interesting if it is what they say it is. But given that Hydrogen is one of the inputs, and most hydrogen is made from fossil fuels then its hardly renewable. Of course Hydrogen can be produced with green energy, but in either case its ridiculously energy intensive. So for Synthetic fuel you have energy intensive hydrogen mixed with either coal or LPG gas or biogas (ie food stock turned into fuel), and then through another ridiculously energy intensive process you produce synthetic fuel. Stuff I've read shows around 40% energy efficiency just to get to the fuel stage, then you burn it in an ICE engine to produce power in a 20% efficient process!!. I dont think our grid can handle producing this stuff.
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I had completely forgotten about oil being recycled, but upon a bit of investigation found that it is not as rosy as one might believe. It seems that in Australia around 60% of lubricating oils are recycled back to lubricating oil funded at a rate of about 60% by the govt (partially funded by a levy on motor oils that we pay). Other uses are possible, but the lack of government funding precludes their production. In addition, there are only a few oil recycling plants in Australia so collection and transportation of used oil as well as the chemical and energy resources used in reprocessing the oil are a significant (but largely ignored) environmental cost.
I guess it's a bit like recycling lithium batteries, with something like 10 percent of them being recycled (in Australia), the rest being either stored, shipped overseas or ending up in land fill...
Synthetic fuel could be interesting if it is what they say it is. But given that Hydrogen is one of the inputs, and most hydrogen is made from fossil fuels then its hardly renewable. Of course Hydrogen can be produced with green energy, but in either case its ridiculously energy intensive. So for Synthetic fuel you have energy intensive hydrogen mixed with either coal or LPG gas or biogas (ie food stock turned into fuel), and then through another ridiculously energy intensive process you produce synthetic fuel. Stuff I've read shows around 40% energy efficiency just to get to the fuel stage, then you burn it in an ICE engine to produce power in a 20% efficient process!!.
Obviously there's a long way to go before synthetic fuel becomes a realistic proposition but who knows what advances will happen down the track but one obvious advantage of synthetic fuel is that it can be used in current ICE vehicles.
I dont think our grid can handle producing this stuff.
Can our grids handle a mass uptake of EVs?
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A taste of things to come for Oz? :popcorn
(https://i.ibb.co/RcmFmwq/Car-Expert.png)
After our recent EV v Petrol road trip, we wanted to give driving an electric vehicle another shot.
This time we rented a Rivian R1S in the United States to see what DC fast charging, off-street AC charging and EV charging in a parking structure would be like.
We didn't expect it to end the way it did...
https://youtu.be/5MXzxHc0dWo?si=cL9NFqCFzby7EjD0
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:popcorn
Here's more grist for everyone's mill. EVs are heavier than ICE powered vehicles.
Someone had to sacrifice two very expensive vehicles for this test. And yes, I know, crashworthiness costs heaps regardless of vehicle.
BTW, I suspect the only m/cs crash tested would be Goldwings with airbags.
On every other bike you do your own crash worthiness testing. >:()
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/feb/12/experts-warn-electric-vehicle-weight-threatens-roa/)
The Toyota Hilux is over 2 tonne, my Teska Y is 1.8 tonne, the Nissan Leaf is under 1.5 tonne.
Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
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The Toyota Hilux is over 2 tonne, my Teska Y is 1.8 tonne, the Nissan Leaf is under 1.5 tonne.
Whichever way you look at it though, currently an EV is still heavier than an equivalent sized ICE vehicle...
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Ah, but the lightness of the angel feathers in using an EV discounts any extra physical weight.
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And here's me thinking it was all the hot air being emitted... :whistle :p
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The Toyota Hilux is over 2 tonne, my Teska Y is 1.8 tonne, the Nissan Leaf is under 1.5 tonne.
Whichever way you look at it though, currently an EV is still heavier than an equivalent sized ICE vehicle...
It's just another furphy spread by the oil industry.
M Tiguan Diesel is the same size and 200 kg heavier. The engine, gearbox, transfer case, propshafts, front and rear differentials, all combined, are heavier than a battery and electric motor. The Tiguan is as tall,as wide, and just 4 to 5 cm shorter.
They have to resort to pushing 'negatives', including BS, which is all they have because they can't push positives of ICE.
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I'm driving a Ford Mustang Mach-E in NZ this week.
Not quite as nice as our Tesla, but it's still very beautiful to drive.
Today, we are driving from Waiuku to Napier, and we're spoiled for choice on where to charge. Tesla, ChargeNet, OneLoop, Z Ev, and BP Charge.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240310/164925a6a66a9a90b0a4dca76b8d3aaa.jpg)
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It's just another furphy spread by the oil industry.
M Tiguan Diesel is the same size and 200 kg heavier. The engine, gearbox, transfer case, propshafts, front and rear differentials, all combined, are heavier than a battery and electric motor. The Tiguan is as tall,as wide, and just 4 to 5 cm shorter.
So, you're comparing an AWD Tiguan to a 2WD Tesla? Hardly a fair comparison!
Even so, a quick look at the specifications of both says the Tiguan still weighs less...
They have to resort to pushing 'negatives', including BS, which is all they have because they can't push positives of ICE.
Perhaps these "negatives" are actually fact? :whistle
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My experience is that they aren't negatives.
Both the Tesla and the Tiguan are called SUVs, so a fair comparison. The Tesla has more storage space.
I've had both over the local tip weighbridge empty....
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My experience is that they aren't negatives.
That's great, but I'm pretty sure for most people it would be very hard to see the price difference between an ICE vehicle and an equivalent sized EV as anything other than a negative...
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I’ll just drop this here!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-11/electric-car-sales-in-australia-outer-suburbs-overtake-city/103542014?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-11/electric-car-sales-in-australia-outer-suburbs-overtake-city/103542014?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)
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I’ll just drop this here!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-11/electric-car-sales-in-australia-outer-suburbs-overtake-city/103542014?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-11/electric-car-sales-in-australia-outer-suburbs-overtake-city/103542014?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web)
Makes sense as EVs are more suited to that environment than they are out in the sticks...
"So although the initial cost of buying an electric car is higher than a petrol car, the running costs are significantly lower."
I would say that the initial costs of buying an EV is significantly higher...
For example, a basic MG ZS costs over $21,000 more than the same model ICE MG.
To put that in perspective, that's more than double the price of the basic ICE MG!
Another example is the Hyundai Kona EV, that will cost you nearly $23,000 over the cost of a basic Kona...a lot of money in anyone's language.
Do I need to point out that you could buy a hell of a lot of fuel with those savings?
Regarding running costs, I noticed there's no mention whatsoever in that article that EVs usually cost more to insure (and why would they when they are obviously talking up EVs :whistle)
As an example, I got quotes from Budget Direct for a 2024 Tesla Y rear drive model and a 2024 top of the line Kia Sportage Diesel and there was a massive price difference.
Bear in mind I used the exact same location/excess/age etc etc...
The difference between the two was a whopping $2,000+ per year...more than enough to pay for servicing of the Sportage and quite a bit of fuel as well! :o
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$23000 = 10 years of fuel, but add in extra maintenance required on an ICE, especially diesel, and it would probably drop several years, so maybe 5-7 years payback.
I've seen many posts about extraordinary insurance premium hikes for EV's so I guess it must be true, but in my own case the premium for my Tesla is about 20% more than my Ranger, and has been since I bought them 4 years ago.
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I've seen many posts about extraordinary insurance premium hikes for EV's so I guess it must be true, but in my own case the premium for my Tesla is about 20% more than my Ranger, and has been since I bought them 4 years ago.
I must admit I was shocked at the difference in the premiums from Budget Direct.
The quotes I got a while back from AAMI were a bit more reasonable with, I think, a $500 or $600 difference.
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Public EV charging is a DISASTER (and always will be)
https://youtu.be/56Wpzw--U50?si=JquP7RNaEm5TnqiO
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Happy Easter! I hope all you EV owners have fun on your Easter travels! :whistle
Electric car owners warned of charging wait times this Easter
With more people hitting the road this Easter, electric car owners are being warned of queues at charging stations.
The Easter long weekend typically brings an influx of people to the nation's roads, and electric car owners are being cautioned to plan ahead to avoid spending their road trip queuing for chargers.
As is the case with petrol stations, electric charging facilities will also see extended usage.
EV charging providers such as Evie, which has over 200 charging stations around Australia, have predicted that over 10,000 EV drivers will use their network over the long Easter weekend. This comes after Evie reported that 8000 unique users charged up at their stations over Christmas.
Obviously, with this many electric cars on the road, there will be some wait times on the chargers in heavily populated areas. Bernhard Conoplia, Head of Public Charging Business for Evie, says that it pays to plan ahead before heading out.
Click the link to continue reading: https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/electric-car-charger-wait-times-australia/ (https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/electric-car-charger-wait-times-australia/)
I particularly liked the bit on "Can you get fined for hogging a charger" :popcorn
As is the case with petrol stations, electric charging facilities will also see extended usage.
Yeah right, as if the waiting times are gonna be anywhere near as long as waiting for an EV to be charged... :rofl
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Be kind to those who may be late returning to their car or find a new charger.
As Mr Conoplia from Evie says, "We understand this can be frustrating, however we're all EV drivers, reducing our environmental impact on the planet every day, so remember to be patient, polite and friendly".
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It takes all types ...
I was already running late but I needed to put some LPG into my EF Falcon ute on the way home from work (would have been in the late 90's). Pull up at the Shell NW corner Maroondah Highway and Oban Road (Ringwood, VIC). Busy that night, only coupla LPG bowsers, a long queue at one, only one car at the ULP in front of the other. I pull up, patiently wait for the woman (these days, we might call her Karen), dicks around with the fuel, washes her windscreen, walks to the Shell Shop, returns to car to get purse, returns to Shell Shop. I wait, wait, wait for her to return, no show. I go to Shell Shop, see her on the Red Phone, walk up to her, ask her to move her car. Karen says, excuse me, can't you see I'm talking? Me, I've been waiting for 10 minutes. Karen, (loudly) eff off.
Well I snapped and must've been redder than the Red Phone, I push the silver button on the Red Phone and says, no you're not and whisper in her ear, now move your effing car or the bull bar on my car will.
First problem solved.
Second problem (my anger management) solved, but still surfaces from time to time.
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Why Tire Companies Love EVs
https://youtu.be/4GACM-IZsZ4?si=XEZ-8CjaTPAsusmV
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Enjoying The Easter Break! :rofl
(https://i.ibb.co/C8JS1mw/Tesla-queue.jpg)
EVs waiting to charge up at Keith, South Australia over the Easter break...
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Never happens with ICE does it?
(https://imghostr.net/images/2024/04/05/6d65d494b00894cedcfcc5fe3c2aa6f3.jpg)
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Enjoying The Easter Break! :rofl
(https://i.ibb.co/C8JS1mw/Tesla-queue.jpg)
EVs waiting to charge up at Keith, South Australia over the Easter break...
Apparently a Tesla club get together. They normally centre these around supercharger spots as this one is. In NSW they're often at the wineries that host superchargers.
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Why Tire Companies Love EVs
https://youtu.be/4GACM-IZsZ4?si=XEZ-8CjaTPAsusmV
More garbage by anti EV people. Tyres last about the same distance as any other car of similar type. You can get the low noise type if you want to pay heaps, or just use standard tyres.
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Never happens with ICE does it?
(https://imghostr.net/images/2024/04/05/6d65d494b00894cedcfcc5fe3c2aa6f3.jpg)
The difference is it doesn't take 20-30 minutes to refuel each individual ICE vehicle... :p
Btw, apparently these cars were queued up because the servo was offering fuel at a much cheaper price than normal...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4954426/Huge-queues-stretch-outside-Perth-petrol-station.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4954426/Huge-queues-stretch-outside-Perth-petrol-station.html)
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Enjoying The Easter Break! :rofl
(https://i.ibb.co/C8JS1mw/Tesla-queue.jpg)
EVs waiting to charge up at Keith, South Australia over the Easter break...
Apparently a Tesla club get together. They normally centre these around supercharger spots as this one is. In NSW they're often at the wineries that host superchargers.
:rofl Good try... https://tinyurl.com/yc2y98e7
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Why Tire Companies Love EVs
https://youtu.be/4GACM-IZsZ4?si=XEZ-8CjaTPAsusmV
More garbage by anti EV people. Tyres last about the same distance as any other car of similar type. You can get the low noise type if you want to pay heaps, or just use standard tyres.
I guess these companies are wrong then... :popcorn
Michelin says, and I quote: On average, EVs will wear out a tire 20% faster than a comparable ICE vehicle.
Goodyear says: Goodyear testing reveals that traditional tires can wear out up to 30% faster on electric vehicles due to the powerful, instant torque from electric motors and the additional vehicle weight from heavy battery packs.
Hyundai: The tires of electric vehicles wear 20% faster than those of internal combustion engines, which is due to the acceleration of electric vehicles that generate strong instantaneous power.
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My Daughter has a Tesla3
Before Christmas she had to get new tyre's after 60,000km
So Dad to the rescue
We put Michelin as I like them, they come standard with them
I had Michelin on my Honda Jazz and sold it with 75,000km on it and it still passed a roadworthy but a Honda Jazz is much lighter and less power than the Tesla3
So I am guessing 60,000km out of a set of tyre's is not bad
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Cheers Leo...60,000ks isn't too shabby!
I guess a lot of it comes down to how heavy a foot you have and also what sort of roads you drive on as well...
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She had Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on it but had to put Pilot Sport 5's on it as the 4's are no longer available
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She had Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on it but had to put Pilot Sport 5's on it as the 4's are no longer available
I just happened to look up the price of those tyres and I nearly choked! :eek
I think I paid around $140 each for the tyres I have on my i30...
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I just happened to look up the price of those tyres and I nearly choked! :eek
I think I paid around $140 each for the tyres I have on my i30...
I paid $125 for the tyres on my Tesla 18 months ago. People spend ridiculous amounts on maintenance and upgrades with very little research all the time. It's what happens when you prefer ignorance over enlightenment.
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She had Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on it but had to put Pilot Sport 5's on it as the 4's are no longer available
I just happened to look up the price of those tyres and I nearly choked! :eek
I think I paid around $140 each for the tyres I have on my i30...
I know they weren’t cheap, I just let my Daughter have part of her inheritance early
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I paid $125 for the tyres on my Tesla 18 months ago. People spend ridiculous amounts on maintenance and upgrades with very little research all the time. It's what happens when you prefer ignorance over enlightenment.
Geez, are they Chinese home brand tyres or something? :eek
I'm surprised you could get a tyre anywhere for that price, especially considering the profile & wheel size on a Tesla!
I'm a bit of a believer you get what you pay for and really cheap tyres are a no no for me...
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I know they weren’t cheap, I just let my Daughter have part of her inheritance early
:thumbs
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My Daughter has a Tesla3
Before Christmas she had to get new tyre's after 60,000km
So Dad to the rescue
We put Michelin as I like them, they come standard with them
I had Michelin on my Honda Jazz and sold it with 75,000km on it and it still passed a roadworthy but a Honda Jazz is much lighter and less power than the Tesla3
So I am guessing 60,000km out of a set of tyre's is not bad
We had a 2015 Honda HRV. First set of tyres, 112,000km. We gave it to our daughter. Car has now 228,000. still on the 2nd set of tyres.
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Are second-hand electric cars worth the value despite prices falling fast?
https://youtu.be/Vy_o5jxcjjY?si=i-ItXYphqWQmBmM8
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Are second-hand electric cars worth the value despite prices falling fast?
https://youtu.be/Vy_o5jxcjjY?si=i-ItXYphqWQmBmM8
No thanks.
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So...
You guys know that "oil" is finite, right? That means it will run out.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jv3RyQh/2024-04-12-09-23-49.png)
So what do all of you guys laughing at EVs think is going to happen then when people can't use their cars anymore?
In my eye, it makes me think we need to start exploring various ways and methods we can use to transition to a new method of transport
I wonder if electricity could hold the answer, lets build some cars to find out
Oh, but wait... we can't do that because people will laugh at us and tell us it is all a big waste of time, so all those people posting funny photos and videos and pointing at the people trying to innovate and actually come up with an alternative, and even laugh at the people for adopting said new technology well they are crazy.
Kinda makes me wonder what would have happened if Thomas Edison had given up because of people laughing at his stupid light bulb, or The Wright Brothers because people showed them a cartoon in the paper stating horses are fast enough.
If you guys think EVs are no good, What's your solution, 47 years of oil left
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All the minerals used in EV batteries (and obviously the rest of the vehicle) are finite too, just sayin' :grin
There's nothing wrong with exploring ways to transition but many believe EVs aren't a real viable option to replace ICE vehicles at this point due mainly to the obvious disadvantages of current batteries.
That's not to say there won't be breakthroughs in battery technology sometime in the future but at the moment EVs are, in my opinion, too expensive, weigh too much (compared to an ICE vehicle) and don't offer the range wanted by many people. Then there's also the lack of infrastructure, long-ish charge times, higher insurance premiums, expensive repair costs and the outrageous cost for a replacement battery.
And yes, I get that there are plenty of people out there that are happy with their EVs (and are prepared to live with their shortcomings) and good on them but at the end of the day there are just way too many disadvantages in owning an EV currently over an ICE car for this little black duck. :grin
That's my 2 bobs worth... :popcorn
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All the minerals used in EV batteries (and obviously the rest of the vehicle) are finite too, just sayin' :grin
For now, that's the only way we can make them, But we only have to make them once per car, as opposed to a car that uses a tank of fuel every week for the life of the car
There's nothing wrong with exploring ways to transition but many believe EVs aren't a real viable option to replace ICE vehicles at this point due mainly to the obvious disadvantages of current batteries.
So let's stop building and trying different versions and iterations. Let's stop trying to improve all the other systems a car needs just because one portion (battery) isn't as eco-friendly as it should be. why not keep going to and perfecting everything while the battery tech catches up?
How many times did SpaceX crash trying to perfect reusable autonomous landing of their rockets? should they have stopped after the first version because the tech wasn't there yet?
in my opinion, too expensive, weigh too much (compared to an ICE vehicle), and don't offer the range wanted by many people. Then there's also the lack of infrastructure, long-ish charge times, higher insurance premiums, expensive repair costs and the outrageous cost for a replacement battery.
Gee, that almost sounds exactly like what people said to people buying cars while they were driving their horse and buggy.
At the end of the day, there are just way too many disadvantages in owning an EV currently over an ICE car for this little black duck. :grin
The average person only commutes around 20-30K, so the handful of times they would drive enough distance to rechange while out on the road would be negligible
Sure there would be people who drive distance, EVs are not for them, in the same way as RAMs are not for inner-city
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So let's stop building and trying different versions and iterations. Let's stop trying to improve all the other systems a car needs just because one portion (battery) isn't as eco-friendly as it should be. why not keep going to and perfecting everything while the battery tech catches up?
How many times did SpaceX crash trying to perfect reusable autonomous landing of their rockets? should they have stopped after the first version because the tech wasn't there yet?
There's also nothing stopping improvements for these other systems in ICE cars while we wait for better batteries...
Re your SpaceX comment, the difference is SpaceX aren't using the general public to iron out any issues...
Tesla, on the other hand are quite happy to use the public as guinea pigs to perfect their autonomous software! :||||
Gee, that almost sounds exactly like what people said to people buying cars while they were driving their horse and buggy.
That's because the issues back then were probably just as relevant as they are now... :grin
The average person only commutes around 20-30K, so the handful of times they would drive enough distance to rechange while out on the road would be negligible
Maybe so, but that doesn't negate all the other downsides such as mentioned earlier...
At the end of the day each of us have a different perspective and that's okay, but in saying that, there does seem to be growing concerns about EVs being the answer...
I guess time will tell... :popcorn
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An article from the RAA of SA (Equivalent to RACV, NRMA etc)
EVs: The truth behind the myths - Taking charge of EV misinformation.
A survey conducted by RAA has revealed South Australians have some concerns about EVs. But are these fears fact or fiction? We tackle some EV myths.
In 1899, during the early days of motoring, prominent South Australian Julian Ayers asked the Adelaide City Council if a car imported from England could be driven on city streets. A Council representative replied, “I have to inform you that it is scarcely possible to say with certainty that motor cars will be permitted in the streets of Adelaide without knowing more about them.”
Needless to say, this fancy new hobby soon caught on. With any emerging technology, there are questions about cost, safety, practicality, and these days, environmental impact.
Just as the arrival of the horseless carriage caused a ripple of unease in communities around the world, the advent of electric vehicles (EVs) has seen mixed reactions.
An RAA survey last year revealed a range of concerns about EVs, including purchase cost, driving range, charging infrastructure availability, fire risk and battery recycling. We take a look at these five factors to separate myth from reality.
1. EVs are too expensive
Three quarters of survey respondents said the cost of EVs was stopping them from buying one. EVs come in a range of shapes, sizes and, of course, price tags. While a standard Model 3 Tesla will set you back about $61,900 plus on-road costs, the base-model BYD Dolphin costs about $38,890 before on-roads.
Keep an eye out for the one of the latest EV offerings, the GWM Ora. The base model is currently available for $35,990 drive away.
In comparison, a base-model petrol Toyota Corolla hatch – similar in size to the Dolphin – has a sticker price of about $29,610 before on-roads. EVs are comparatively more expensive than ICE (petrol, diesel and autogas-powered) vehicles, but prices are constantly dropping.
To encourage sales, the South Australian Government is offering a three-year registration fee exemption for new battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles first registered in SA, until 30 June 2025.
The scheme has a vehicle price cap of $68,750 (including GST). Conditions apply, so visit treasury.sa.gov.au for the full details. At the federal level, fuel-efficient vehicles, including EVs, enjoy a higher purchase-price threshold before the luxury car tax (LCT) applies.
2. EVs have poor range
‘Range anxiety’ is the fear of running out of battery charge and being left stranded. In fact, 70 per cent of survey respondents cited range anxiety as a barrier to EV ownership. The distance an EV can travel on a full charge varies between vehicles.
The folk at Polestar claim that under the right conditions, the Polestar 2 Long Range Single Motor model can clock up to 655km between charges, while the Mini Cooper SE may become a little breathless around the 400km mark.
The Tesla Model Y can cover up to 514km before needing a plug-in, which means a road trip to Melbourne can be completed with just one recharge along the way.
Vehicles with ranges around the mid-400km to low-500km mark are common among the rest of the EV pack. Just like ICE vehicles, an EV’s range can be affected by driving conditions, as well as air-con and heater use.
3. There’s insufficient charging infrastructure
A lack of public EV charging infrastructure was high on the list of survey respondents’ concerns, with 71 per cent seeing it as a problem. When petrol vehicles first hit our roads many years ago, motorists needed to carry top-up fuel until petrol stations started appearing in the countryside.
Similarly, early EV drivers could barely leave major cities without suffering justifiable range anxiety. Since then, the charging network has expanded rapidly throughout the nation.
In conjunction with the State Government, RAA is three-quarters of the way through establishing 140 charging stations throughout SA, powered by net 100 per cent renewable energy. Nearly all these chargers are less than 200km from the next one, and 75 per cent are in regional SA.
The (7kW) Destination chargers, usually found at places like caravan parks and motels, take several hours to recharge a battery, which is ideal when you’re staying overnight.
Rapid (150kW) and Ultra-rapid (200kW) chargers, commonly found on highways and in town centres, can do the job in 15 to 45 minutes, allowing travellers time to take a break, grab a coffee and refresh themselves.
4. EVs are a fire hazard
Research conducted by consultancy firm EV FireSafe, found that EVs are less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles. However, because EVs are the new kids on the block, they receive much more attention when an incident occurs.
The combustibility of EV lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries is the main concern, but according to EV FireSafe, there have only been seven EV battery fires in Australia. Three of these were caused by building fires that ignited the batteries, and one each was the result of arson, a collision, road debris hitting the battery pack, and a fire in a damaged battery that had been removed from a car.
Given there are about 130,000 EVs on Australian roads, the likelihood of a battery fire is very small.
Manufacturers use a range of methods to protect batteries from damage and overheating. Fire services handle EV fires differently than ICE fires, so EV number plates must display a blue, triangular plate to identify the vehicle as an EV.
5. EV batteries can’t be recycled
Although EV motors don’t emit greenhouse gases, and wind and solar provide much of SA’s power generation, questions have been raised about the recyclability of Li-ion batteries. Nearly half of survey respondents cited this as a barrier to EV ownership.
Depending on the manufacturer, batteries carry a warranty of about eight years or 160,000km, whichever comes first. However, batteries can last much longer.
So when a battery does need replacing, what happens to the old one? As well as plastic, Li-ion batteries contain a variety of materials, including steel, aluminium, copper, graphite, nickel, cobalt and lithium.
Recycling is a complex process, but the amount of material that can be recovered and re-used has improved significantly over the past few years. These days, more than 90 per cent of the plastics, metals and minerals can be separated and recycled effectively.
While efficiency and safety have long been the main focus of battery manufacturers, there’s a growing emphasis on improved recyclability.
Some batteries can also be repurposed to store power for homes and businesses once their EV days are over.
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If the RAA are anything like the RACV here in Victoria, they will look after their own interests first and foremost...
A look at their website tells me they sell EV car insurance, EV Chargers and also have their own EV charging network so it's not surprising they are encouraging EVs.
https://www.raa.com.au/motor/ev-hub (https://www.raa.com.au/motor/ev-hub)
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What the human being is best at doing, is interpreting all new information so that their prior conclusions remain intact.” — Warren Buffett
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Or..."be suspicious of those that have a vested interest in the products they are promoting" - ruSTynutz :grin
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The 80% rule: Why you shouldn't charge your EV to 100%
By Craig Cole, Senior Editor, EV Pulse
There are rules for everything. Pay your taxes… wear pants… don’t drive on the sidewalk … and if you own an electric vehicle, you need to be aware of the “80% rule.” Why is 80% an important number if you own an electric car, crossover, or pick-up?
There are two reasons: charging performance and battery longevity. Most of the time you should only charge an EV to 80% because charging rates slow down dramatically past the 80% mark. And two, the long-term health of your vehicle’s battery pack is improved when kept below 100%.
What does all this mean?
Concerning charging rates, a good example is the Hyundai Ioniq 5 with the optional, long-range battery. This hatchback-like crossover can DC fast charge from 10 to 80% in an incredibly quick 18 minutes. But it needs an additional 32 minutes to go from 80 to 100% - almost twice as long as it took to go from 10 to 80.
Why? Charging is not linear. Instead of batteries taking in energy at a constant, predictable rate, the rate actually changes based on a myriad of variables, though most importantly, the battery’s state of charge. Simply put, the fuller the battery is, the slower it absorbs energy. Imagine if a conventional car’s gas tank took longer and longer to fill up the closer it got to being full. It's kind of crazy.
Top view of a movie theater with some seats occupied and some emptyTop view of a movie theater with seats becoming more occupied and blocking the sides
The best analogy I’ve heard for why charging slows down is that batteries are like theater seating. When you’re one of the first people to enter, it’s quick and easy to find a chair – you can sit anywhere – but as the theater fills up, it takes a lot longer to snag a spot and sit down. In the Li-MAX Cineplex above, the electrons are climbing over each other and spilling popcorn everywhere!
It’s important to know about the “80 % rule” if you’re on a long-distance drive in an EV. When it’s time to charge, it’s often smarter to stop at 80% and then get back on the road, instead of waiting for the battery to completely fill up. Doing so maximizes your use of time.
For example, if your EV has 300 miles of range when fully juiced up, that means it can go about 240 miles with an 80% state of charge. (Obviously, you’re going to stop and power up before hitting zero miles, but let’s keep things simple and say 240.) If the 0-to-80% recharge time is 40 minutes, you can hit the road in little more than half an hour. If you want to fully replenish the battery, it could realistically take an additional 90 minutes to go from 80 to 100%. In the time it took you to gain that extra range, you could be a hundred miles or more down the road and in the vicinity of another charger. That’s why stopping at 80% usually makes the most sense (though that is something YOU have to determine).
There are, of course, instances where you’ll want to wait longer to hit 100%. Maybe there are huge distances between DC fast chargers, and you need every bit of range you can get. It could be the dead of winter and you have range anxiety about making it to your destination. Or you’re towing a car or boat, and the extra weight means you need the additional kilowatt-hours to get you to the next charging station.
The other reason to avoid going all the way to 100 is because it can help preserve battery life. Whether it’s a phone, cordless drill, or your car, batteries simply don’t like to be full. Keeping them topped to the brim means, over time, the maximum kilowatt-hours they can hold shrinks faster than it would otherwise. Always concerned about warranty costs, automakers even suggest limiting how much you charge. Car companies make this easy to do with an infotainment system that allows you to set your preferred charge level – even when you’re not at home.
It’s important to note that you can charge your EV to 100%, but it’s just that for optimal battery life over the long haul, charging to a lower percentage is a good idea. It’s like changing engine oil in an old-school vehicle. You can follow the manufacturer’s recommendation, but doing it more frequently is never a bad idea, especially if you plan on keeping your car or truck for years and years.
Link to article source: https://tinyurl.com/5n6nbpaj
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Hertz Australia in the spotlight for “misleading” electric-car policy
The rental-car giant has been accused of billing customers for not topping up electric hire cars to the maximum charge level – even though
they physically wouldn't be able to do so unless the charging station is next door.
A leading car rental company is reviewing its practices after it was discovered it has been quietly limiting the battery capacity of its electric
cars – and billing customers for not returning the vehicle with maximum charge.
Hertz customers borrowing an electric Polestar 2, available at 22 sites across the country, are told in their rental agreement that the vehicle
is handed over with 90 per cent charge, and must be topped up to the same level when it is returned – or they will incur a fee.
However, the company has locked the vehicles from charging beyond 90 per cent, so unless the charging station is in close proximity to the
Hertz location, drivers are unable to hand the car back without dropping below 90 per cent charge – and paying a fee.
To continue reading, click this link: https://www.drive.com.au/news/exclusive-hertz-quietly-capping-electric-cars-charge/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/exclusive-hertz-quietly-capping-electric-cars-charge/)
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Australia isn’t ready for electric utes, for now – Kia Australia boss
Limited driving ranges – which are halved when towing or carrying a load – are among the reasons today's electric utes are not ready for most Australians, according to a top Kia executive.
The local boss of South Korean car giant Kia says the current generation of electric utes – with high prices, and limited driving ranges that are cut in half when towing – are not yet suited to Australia.
Kia head office is currently developing two electric pick-ups, both due in 2026 – including one based on the diesel 'Tasman' ute coming to Australian showrooms mid next year.
However the CEO of Kia Australia, Damien Meredith, has acknowledged that – with current battery technology – electric utes are not yet suitable for Australian buyers who require a large payload and towing capacity without sacrificing driving range.
Only one electric ute is on sale in Australia, the LDV eT60, but it costs about $100,000 drive-away, more than double the price of the diesel version, and can tow a third of what the diesel can (1000kg vs 3000kg).
Electric pick-ups sold in the US can travel further unladen – and tow up to 4.5 tonnes – but independent testing has found driving range is cut roughly in half when towing at maximum capacity, or the tray is full.
It is this mix – a need to drive long distances, carry loads, tow even larger loads, and be capable of off-road use, while offering SUV-like interior comfort – that means utes are considered the hardest type of vehicle to electrify.
"We can all answer that question from different points of view, but ... bluntly, I don't think we're ready for an electric ute in Australia right now with what's available, for lots of reasons," Mr Meredith told Drive when asked if Australia is ready for an electric ute.
"If payload comes into play, instead of having a 450-kilometre range, you've got a 200-kilometre range. There are lots of negatives I think we're gaining."
Click HERE (https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-not-ready-for-electric-utes-kia-aus-boss/) to continue reading.
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EVs aren't even WORTH FIXING, sent to JUNK YARD instead
https://youtu.be/iE8AmkQRhlg?si=li-mwy5Ugb1Yf8AE
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The unveiling of Ford’s electric pick-up truck, the F-150 Lightning, in Australia has sparked excitement and scepticism among tradies and car enthusiasts alike.
With its classic American design reminiscent of the brand’s iconic gas-guzzling “yank tanks,” the Lightning is hoped to become the Australian tradie’s next best mate.
However, the hefty price tag of approximately $280,000 has left some in its target market scratching their heads.
Tradies reacted awkwardly this week to the staggering cost when 9 News reporter Abbey Geran presented them with the price tag.
To continue reading, click HERE (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/thats-a-bit-spicy-aussie-tradies-awkward-reaction-to-fords-electric-ute-the-f150-lightning/news-story/e313a4e168e3117cb8226c0f1d8dc2bf)
I love this: :rofl
"Despite the sticker shock, AusEV suggests that customers consider the electric ute’s comparatively low running costs.
With a cost of $2 per 100 kilometres to run, significantly less than petrol F-150 models, and five years of free servicing, the Lightning could potentially save customers up to $32,500 over five years"
So, maybe in around 20 years you might just about break even! :rofl
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So, maybe in around 20 years you might just about break even! :rofl
Most tradies should go down this route TBH (as they only really work in their area) but yeah FORD needs to dramatically reduce the price by at least half, people will buy, proven by the clowns who buy 100K landcrusers and then spend another 50K on mods
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EVs aren't even WORTH FIXING, sent to JUNK YARD instead
https://youtu.be/iE8AmkQRhlg?si=li-mwy5Ugb1Yf8AE
Looking at the figures for mechanic training in EV's, it would seem that the courses are available but at a significant cost, and from an ongoing value for money perspective, service companies arer going to find it tough to consider it. A bit of a chicken and egg situation a bit like the EV charger vs EV numbers conundrum.
I also read in a UK article where the author was discussing the dissassembly and repair of an EV battery by an everyday mechanic. This just confuses the situation because mechanics these days dont even repair the major components of ICE cars, eg gearboxes, diffs, engines are all done by specialist companies. EV batteries and motors are the same.
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Most tradies should go down this route TBH (as they only really work in their area) but yeah FORD needs to dramatically reduce the price by at least half, people will buy, proven by the clowns who buy 100K landcrusers and then spend another 50K on mods.
Have a couple of cashed-up, bogan tradie neighbours, seem to be always thinking-up new ways to spend. For one, the Land Cruiser has been replaced with a Dodge RAM, optioned-up to over $200K (so he proudly tells everyone), a $180K Lotus caravan (despite having a holiday hpuse), a $200K wake (what's that anyway) boat, work ute is a new Ranger Wildtrack, when he took delivery of that the work tradie trailer went of the the shop, returned with custom paint and pinstripe job and wheels (to match the Ranger), would've been quite a few $K in that. And then he has the cheek to complain about the price of fuel - 1st world problem.
I can see him buying an EV ute, it only needs to get him to the holiday house at Bonnie Doon.