Author Topic: Oils, let the debate begin.  (Read 53713 times)

Offline alans1100

  • 1999 ST1100A
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6250
  • Thanked: 1161 times
  • Alan, Peterborough, SA
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2013, 05:27:02 PM »
If in doubt use what is specified in the manual.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:16:19 PM by alans1100 »
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 

Offline saaz

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4542
  • Thanked: 41 times
  • Canberra ACT
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2013, 06:44:54 PM »
The trouble is that any new engine oil meets or exceeds those old oil standards, but after those standards fuel conserving oils were introduced, which is where the MA standard comes in for wet clutches.  In all other respects, modern oils are so much better than old oils.  I had to do oil changes every 2500kms and oil and filter every 5000kms on the Suzuki GS1000 before more modern oils came along - 5000kms oil and filter changes!

The oil recommendation table is exactly the same as in my 78 Suzuki owners manual, and the Honda police supplement manual.  Still valid today.

Of course if you have a Ducati or BMW with a dry clutch you would be laughing right now (apart from the noise those Ducatis make!)
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
Ozstoc, STOC #7239, Farrider #461 Ulysses #061681, IBA #59143 and some others
 

Offline Cerebral Knievel

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2546
  • Thanked: 868 times
  • The last of the 4 D's
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2013, 07:25:35 PM »
Has anyone used Shell Advance SX4 15W50 Engine Oil  ?
I have just got my greasy mitts on a few bottles - with synthetic additives apparently ...
Any good ?
2003  :slvr13  2005  :blu13  1999 :gldst11                                           
               2008  :blk13 1996  :blk11

National Rallies 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2022 2023 2024

Current Fleet:08 ST1300,96 ST1100,05 R1200RT(busted sump)
 

Offline saaz

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4542
  • Thanked: 41 times
  • Canberra ACT
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #103 on: July 08, 2013, 10:45:02 AM »
I haven't used it, but can't see why a Shell bike specific oil should not be good.  It should be good for ambient temperatures down to -5c and handle the hottest summer weather.  I have used all sorts of grades of oil, such as 15W-40, 10W-40, 10W-60 and 5W-50.
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
Ozstoc, STOC #7239, Farrider #461 Ulysses #061681, IBA #59143 and some others
 

Offline Cerebral Knievel

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2546
  • Thanked: 868 times
  • The last of the 4 D's
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2013, 11:33:55 AM »
Picked up multiple bottles for 10 shekels a pop from a garage sale.
Might be a bit old - the graphics are different to the current ones .
For 20 odd bucks with a filter change , i won't complain    8)

2003  :slvr13  2005  :blu13  1999 :gldst11                                           
               2008  :blk13 1996  :blk11

National Rallies 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2022 2023 2024

Current Fleet:08 ST1300,96 ST1100,05 R1200RT(busted sump)
 

Offline STeveo

  • Legendary "1000 Club" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
  • Thanked: 408 times
  • ST Legend
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2013, 12:10:13 PM »
I used the Shell SX4 once with no problems other than it burnt off a bit and had to add a bit between changes.

 :bl11
 

Offline Tipsy

  • Landed Gentry
  • Legendary "1000 Club" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Thanked: 48 times
  • Laurie
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #106 on: July 08, 2013, 05:42:02 PM »
 :wht11 py

I am using Penrite diesel oil and will be doing change this week on friday and will let you know what it is like.
I do know that the bike runs quieter with no rattles when idling @ 700 to 800 rpms and the gear changes are smoother.
Oh by the way it will be just over 20,000 k since last change.

Tipsy
I am lost and haves gone to find myself
Now If I get back before I return
Please ask me to wait.
 

Offline StinkyPete

  • Defected to a BMW
  • NR2016 Group
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6546
  • Thanked: 2952 times
  • Blackwood, SA
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #107 on: July 09, 2013, 07:06:52 AM »
Has anyone used Shell Advance SX4 15W50 Engine Oil  ?
I have just got my greasy mitts on a few bottles - with synthetic additives apparently ...
Any good ?

I used Shell SX4 for the 65,000km that I had my Yamaha XJR1300.  Worked fine for me.
IBA #59146   OzLapper 2012 & 2019

BSA M21 600cc single (1948)
Yamaha XS650  (The Black Wobbler)
Yamaha XJR1300 (Rocket Ship)
Honda ST1300 (Beautiful Bike)
BMW R1200RT (Technically Perfect)
 

Offline saaz

  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4542
  • Thanked: 41 times
  • Canberra ACT
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #108 on: July 25, 2013, 06:07:50 PM »
May as well add to an existing thread.

I have been using penrite 10 tenths 10W-40 in the ST1100 the last few oil changes. While I have not tested the oil, it is the best I have used so far.

Over 10,000 to 14,000kms oil and filter changes the gear changes feels the same regardless of cold, really hot or distance.  Most oils tend to feel a bit clunky the older they are in or the hotter the temperature.  Given my ST11 is up to 202,000kms, the oil level drops from 2/3rds on the sight glass to 1/3rd in 10,000kms, so next time I might try the 15W-50 version.  The oil is around $68 full price (less 20% at the moment at repco for NRMA etc members, 10% off usually) for 5 litres.  So 2 containers do nearly 3 oils changes, lasting for 30,000kms to 45,000kms or more.

I am after an oil that will do the car and bike(s) to simplify things, so this might be it.
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
1996 Honda ST1100P
2014 Triumph Trophy SE
Ozstoc, STOC #7239, Farrider #461 Ulysses #061681, IBA #59143 and some others
 

Offline Old Steve

  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
  • Thanked: 35 times
  • Social Touter
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2013, 10:26:44 PM »
I worked for an international oil company for 25 years.  The last 9 were in their international lubricants technical centre.  I find most of what has been written here pretty close to the mark, but there's still the odd misconception which creeps in.

One thing I have found is that there isn't a piece of equipment which doesn't benefit from a reduced oil change interval.  If the manufacturer states oil change at 8000 km, I change at 5000 km.  I pretty much change at 5000 km anyway, unless the manufacturer recommends a shorter oil change interval.  Extending your oil drain interval is just false economy.

Use the highest specification motor oil.  In motorbikes thats something like an API SM or SN plus a JASO MA qualification - the JASO MA addresses the specific friction modification requirement for a wet clutch, but the additive package is skewed towards a higher anti-wear additive package.  As for the viscosity grade, the high temperature grade is determined by the internal clearances of the engine, the low temperature starting requirements of the engine determines what W grade the oil should be.  So if the manufacturer recommends an SAE 10W-40 then use an SAE 10W-40.  If you operate in a high temperature zone the manufacturer will have printed a graph in the handbook showing the appropriate engine oil grade to use for your conditions (Honda does).

That OP who asked about Delo, thats just Chevron's (and Caltex's) cover brand for a range of "Diesel Engine Lubricating Oil".  I think there's a range of Delos ranging from Delo 100 (a low performance engine oil for older naturally aspirated 4 stroke diesel engines) to Delo 400 Multigrade which is a pretty high performance diesel engine oil for the latest diesel engines.  Delo won't have the friction additive that addresses clutch requirements.  Delo 400 Multigrade is a good engine oil for petrol engines too, but I wouldn't use it in a motorbike engine.  Yes it does have a higher level of detergency in it's additive package, and therefore will clean engine deposits out and appear darker - any diesel engine oil will do that, they're just doing their job.

Friction modified engine oils (JASO MA) lose their friction modification as they do their job, that's one reason why I tend to change my motorbike oil at shorter intervals.  Towards the end of their oil drain interval you will notice a drop off in gear change feel, this is the friction modification being depleted, change the oil and you will notice improved gear change feel.

Synthetics?  Horses for courses.  Depends on the additive package used.  I believe the first Mobil 1 was a pretty shitty oil, I think the formulators thought the use of a synthetic base oil would reduce engine deposits so backed out some of the detergency/dispersancy package.  They learnt quickly, and now Mobil's synthetic range of lubricants is top class, Mobil have made their synthetics range their flagship brand.  In the USA manufacturers tend to include highly hydrotreated mineral base oils (Group III basestocks) as "synthetics" (Google Mobil vs Castrol and the Better Business Bureau), in Europe they tend to accept that only Group IV and V base oils (PAO, Esters, PIB, etc) can be described as "synthetic".

Motorbike engines need a specially formulated engine oil.  They work at a higher specific thermal efficiency (they produce more power for their size), there's usually less oil in the sump so what is there is exposed to higher thermal and oxidative loads, and there are specific requirements of a motorbike engine/transmission which must be specifically addressed.

Use a specific motorcycle engine oil, use as high a performance engine oil as you can get, and change it at reduced drain intervals.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 10:32:17 PM by Old Steve »
At my age you realise something very important, then ten minutes later you've forgotten it.
 

Offline STeveo

  • Legendary "1000 Club" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
  • Thanked: 408 times
  • ST Legend
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #110 on: August 01, 2013, 07:59:14 AM »
Agreed.   :thumb

 :bl11
 

Offline jimwilly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • ST Legend
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2013, 10:31:17 AM »
I'm with you Old Steve, bike oils for bikes. Most of my Hondas have had a 6000k oil change interval, I change at 4000k. I'm not a long distance tourer and can understand the long distance guys point, but saving a few dollars
on my pride and joy or peace of mind knowing my engine got good stuff doing the work, I think I'll spend the extra.
 

Offline youngSTer

  • young one
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • BMW R1200RT
Re: Oils, let the debate begin.
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2013, 10:56:38 AM »
Totally in agreement.

When I bought my ST I thought it would be good to have it regularly serviced by a Bike shop untill
I found out that they put the apprentice in charge of filling up the oil.
They gave him a 5 litre container of oil??? and he dutifully put all of it in the ST. :o

Wondered why gear changes were difficult until I did my own oil change and discovered that there was 5.2 litres in the drain pan. :crazy :crazy

DOING ALL MY OWN MAINTENANCE FROM NOW ON.  :hatwave :hatwave :clap :clap
Sometimes I pretend to be NORMAL,
but it gets boring,So I go back to being Me!

Bikes I've had;
Suzuki K10 80cc.
B.S.A. Bantam.
Honda CB450.
Suzuki Savage.
Honda SL100.
Honda Postie Bike.
Honda ST1300A. Best of All. GONE & SOLD
Honda CB 500X. New to my Stable. GONE & SOLD.
NOW BMW R 1200 RT