OzSTOC

Honda ST1100 Section => Electrics & Electronics - Volts, Amps and Fuses ST1100 => Topic started by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:24:56 AM

Title: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:24:56 AM
Seeing folk are starting to do their own wiring, its time to put a few hints and how to dos up. And do nots.

Do get a good crimping tool for red yellow and blue crimps. Jaycar has some good ones but they arent cheap

A set of these  cat TH1829 are suitable (easily changeable Jaws)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/8c1d15e953a6660c6ae3fef9a0f309d1.jpg)


Or these (my prefered) as these have Quick interchangeable jaws for many jobs  cat TH2000

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/327d5c77277486dc9439616871be79b2.jpg)



Do not use anything like these, the performance is less than poor

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/6e01d4992f93a85f1d3814a87f19a6a3.jpg)

New pic soon
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:32:44 AM
To do a good wiring job, good terminals are needed, not the realy cheap jobs as they dont crimp properly.

The Narva range are good. I prefer to use the pre insulated terminals, or in some cases even the ones with the heat shrink insulation, though these dont have a large range.

Uninsulated crimps can be used, and in some situations are preferred. These will need a heat shrink sleeve fitted.  Uninsulated crimps use a different tool than insulated something like this is good for the plug terminals.

(http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_10145.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: saaz on October 01, 2012, 09:36:12 AM
Brock, what is your preferred wire stripper?  I use that last tool to do it, as at least it can do that. I use the first crimper, and it works far better to give consistent good crimps.  I have an old uninsulated crimp tool that my father had.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 10:14:51 AM
For stripping, I use a knife with a not too sharp blade. It only has to cut the insulation not the wire, I use a thumb nail to remove the sleeve. For aircraft wiring I use a proper stripping tool, though some of those are not so great.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Biggles on October 01, 2012, 01:34:41 PM
I have these from ALDI:

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Pixtor/Stripcrimp.jpg)

They break all Brock's rules, but I find they work for me.
The stripping function is not left-hander friendly, but does the job neatly.
The range of crimping slots covers my needs.
It also cuts the wire (but always leaves one strand uncut- go figure).    :)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 07:53:39 PM
An example of common crimps and one not so common, a socket from a 110 plug

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/80a412cb6e9d70548d0b47881fe1256a.jpg)

Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:06:45 PM
How to crimp a wire to an insulated faston connector

Strip the wire back 7mm, and give the wire a bit of a twist to tighten the lie. Take note of the crimper jaws, some are designed to have parts that crimp the wire into the terminal and the tail of the crimp on to the insulation to support the wire. These jaws are polarised for this task.

(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/299d52da145c5370f2b712a1d24ec87b.md.jpg)
Its sometimes easier to secure the crimp in the crimper jaws

(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/332671f17385291df0abf3c0a72dd0cb.md.jpg)

note the metal shoulder inside the crimp, these are the preferred type.


 
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:10:27 PM
The crimp.

(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/69e9ee6aa5aa4c5b2f8f821869f986ee.md.jpg)

The finished job

(http://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/08/27/a51cce11d3f6e9f5e5b0a551cde56abb.md.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:14:15 PM
Uninsulated faston, the type used in plugs, and relay sockets, strip back 7mm

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/5eb44dd4178ab4b82339d1989f5e51e4.jpg)

in the crimping tool

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/bb553cdeb5b6124ca886e94052eca22e.jpg)

Finished product

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/8c712b553ba26d470ee22e005b6b4520.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:17:52 PM
110 Plug pin, strip wire 5mm. These are the plug type used all over the bike. I would suggest that 3 mm diameter wire would be the maximum for these pins, as the crimp action wont work properly on larger, 4mm may work at a pinch 5mm no. 16 gauge aircraft wire will fit, as the insulation is thinner.

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/1ee73a06c17bb15fa81cdf56913e9c79.jpg)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/330f3d117e4eea9f318485b52d9dd850.jpg)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/45655a10fb87b12a5d4073c2b47679ff.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:24:01 PM
Un-insulated terminals, as  used on battery connections, strip back 7 - 8 mm

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/8e45730229479f1f236f1be7261acf1b.jpg)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/d21fb69531bc920c19a8a0acf9dd9477.jpg)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/6a45d836fd79541aea039c10e2b3882d.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 08:28:52 PM
One tool, three jaw sets

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/c85e52c0e5a56cbcb5b7684ddae0f89c.jpg)

The un-insulated terminals could be done with this tool, this tool also does the Anderson plugs used in the Jumper lead mod

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/15/ec95bc69b381a1174782c20653c9dd2e.jpg)

My crimp tool kit, also does coax plugs for TV and CB radios and telephone connectors

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/15/b934eaf500ceeae07c81fdc5b0378fa5.jpg)

Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: JohnoJ on October 01, 2012, 08:51:14 PM
Explains everything. Once crimp you should also tug on the wire to give one final check. :thumbs
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
No need to tug on those ones, using the right wire, crimp and tool means a good job every time.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Tipsy on October 01, 2012, 09:28:18 PM
 :wht11 py
Thats bloody good Brock , Where can one get a crimp kit like that
(trade price would be nice) :grin :p
Tipsy
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 01, 2012, 09:45:57 PM
Think I got everything from Jaycar, except for the Anderson Plug crimping tool, got that on the net from www.agwholesalers.com.au (http://www.agwholesalers.com.au)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Tipsy on October 01, 2012, 09:50:20 PM
 :wht11 py

Thanks Mate

Tipsy
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Diesel on October 02, 2012, 10:53:41 AM
Great post thanks Guru. Looking forward to your 'heat shrinking' post next.      :popcorn

Cheers, Diesel
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 02, 2012, 12:03:18 PM
Heat shrinking is reasonably easy, just gotta watch the heat. Only want shrunk sleeving, not burning wiring.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: saaz on October 02, 2012, 12:36:30 PM
The hardest thing about heat shrinking is remembering to put the heat shrink tube on the wire before putting on the connectors  :||||  A larger size heat shrink tube can still work sometimes.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Abe on October 03, 2012, 09:40:20 AM
I've had this Iroda 120 soldering and heat shrink iron for several years now and love it.  There's no need for extension cords, though it's for the smaller jobs, not battery terminals.

http://www.pro-iroda.com/pro120.htm (http://www.pro-iroda.com/pro120.htm)

Vega
Dave
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 09, 2012, 07:08:40 PM
Woo Hoo, Hydraulic crimper arrived

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/08/17/338b8bbb191cb3bc837774c8b007b008.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: saaz on October 09, 2012, 07:11:56 PM
I got mine last week.Impressive bit of gear!
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 09, 2012, 07:36:16 PM
Did a test crimp, on a wire that was a little small for the crimp. Excellent result....
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: saaz on October 09, 2012, 07:41:11 PM
I think 8 tonne crimping should be the punishment from now on....unfortunately I have done all those crimps in the last week so have to look around for something to crimp...
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 09, 2012, 07:48:25 PM
The smaller dies would be great for fishing traces.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: saaz on October 09, 2012, 07:50:31 PM
I think that there are lots of applications beyond crimping, I just have to remember I have the tool!
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: BigTed on October 10, 2012, 11:00:10 AM
Think I got everything from Jaycar, except for the Anderson Plug crimping tool, got that on the net from [url=http://www.agwholesalers.com.au]www.agwholesalers.com.au[/url] ([url]http://www.agwholesalers.com.au[/url])

Hi Brock, does the Anderson plug need a different tool only because it's bigger?
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Diesel on October 10, 2012, 11:15:02 AM
Like TerryDJ - I hads to get me a better crimping solution.       Wot thuh

Thanks for costing us $65.00 Brock!      :crazy

This just arrived today - 5 sets of dies (jaws) for different apps, and a nice ratchet crimp......


(http://i47.tinypic.com/2zgaov7.jpg)

Cheers, Diesel
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 10, 2012, 11:34:54 AM
Quote
does the Anderson plug need a different tool only because it's bigger?

Thats correct Rob, it needs this tool

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2017/09/25/206345be1a876f8e91748f3fc009de9e.jpg)

Or the 8 Ton Hydraulic crimper with the correct jaws fitted
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Whizz on October 10, 2012, 04:21:30 PM
Hey Brock, fantastic pics mate, a picture tells a thousand words, and these are really clear and concise. Well done mate, good work.  :thumbs :thumbsup
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: terrydj on October 10, 2012, 05:06:47 PM
Like TerryDJ - I hads to get me a better crimping solution.       Wot thuh
Thanks for costing us $65.00 Brock!      :crazy
This just arrived today - 5 sets of dies (jaws) for different apps, and a nice ratchet crimp......
Cheers, Diesel

"WOW" that's a great bit of gear.
Mate where did you get that, me thinks me got gotta get one
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Yorkie on October 10, 2012, 09:46:40 PM
I used the hydraulic crimper for making new wire stays for yachts.
45 years as a sparky and used it about half a dozen times for that.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on October 10, 2012, 09:54:21 PM
We sparkys can think side ways, comes from working with stuff you cant see that bites if you cockup..
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Diesel on October 11, 2012, 07:50:15 AM

"WOW" that's a great bit of gear.
Mate where did you get that, me thinks me got gotta get one


Your favourite shop Champ - fleabay!!!!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Dies-Ratchet-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-Kit-Bootlace-Open-Barrel-Non-Insulated-AU/264606238594?hash=item3d9bc2c782:g:UMYAAOSwu19e4Lxk (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-Dies-Ratchet-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-Kit-Bootlace-Open-Barrel-Non-Insulated-AU/264606238594?hash=item3d9bc2c782:g:UMYAAOSwu19e4Lxk)

Cheers
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Abe on January 13, 2013, 06:36:48 PM
Sorry for the delay just found out how to use Photobucket.

This is what I use.

(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q791/vegapup/Honda%20ST1100/099_zps5f2c286c.jpg)

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Flip on January 14, 2013, 02:53:56 AM
Never trusted those crimping tools very much. Tried some, crushed insulators, cracked alloy tags - YUK !   :(
Which ever type is used, and admittedly some are MUCH better than others, I just never really trust them.  :p
Due to old habits and ancient training - I usually try to slide the insulating material back off the tag and up along the wire.
Then using pre-tinned end of the wire, solder the wire into / onto the tag.  :thumb
Where ever possible using only solid brass, copper or if needed, silver or gold plated tags.  :thumbsup
If possible, slid the original insulator back into place or insulate with several layers of 'heat-shrink' tubing.
The result, if done correctly, is a very low resistance join that has minimum electrical resistance (less heat) and tends not to pull apart.  :grin
Just my strange old fashioned was of doing things - but it's always worked very well on all my bikes from my first BSA 10 (back in 1966) to my current ST1100. (1998 Ex-WA Police) :hatwave



 :wht11
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on January 14, 2013, 08:36:10 AM
The crimping tool above Flip, is a very good one that doesnt damage the crimp. Its those nasty stamped metal ones that are rubbish. The crimper above means you can crimp all day, and the last one is exactly the same quality as the first. ( Mind you, the same can be said of the superchamp things, all crap)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Flip on January 14, 2013, 11:34:54 AM
What you say about that crimping tool may be very true - but Brock, you must remember, that apart from electronics, I'm from the 'old school' of self taught bike-fixer-uppers in the back of dad's garage on old pommie bikes - BSA A10 - TRIUMPH T-110, things like that - where steel and pure physical strength was what counted   :cuss  >:()  :||||  - not technical the wonderful innovations of todays bikes.  :thumbsup

What can a few more ft/lbs of torque on this bolt hurt ?  :wink1   

MMMM ! Better tighten this screw up just a bit more.  :thumb   

Need to be sure this nut is tight enough - better belt the end of the spanner with a hammer a few times.  :wink1

This probably explains why I've started to leave most of the work on my ST to the properly trained mechanics at Honda these last few years - less self inflicted damage !  :thumbsup 

AND - more time for traveling / touring / riding !   :hatwave

After being away for a year - HOPEFULLY, I'll get the ST1100 back from it's check & tune-up today or tomorrow sometime !   :runyay

Going to be a bit different on Aussie roads again after spending most of the past year riding around Sai Gon.
Back to the left hand side of the road again instead of the R H side, riding the wrong way up one way streets, alleyways, footpaths or whatever gets you where you're going.
Three and a half million motorbikes, plus cars, taxis, trucks, buses, motorized tri-thingies.    NONE of who give way to anything smaller that themselves.
Cong An (police) who let you get away with anything - for the right amount paid up immediately as a 'beer money' on-the-spot-fine. (cost of fine depends on the value of your vehicle)
Traffic lights are used just to warn you that something else is probably going to come from another direction and try to run you over - - -
Stop at a red traffic light ???  WHY ???  Nobody else does !  :butt  :butt  :butt  Something will probably run you down from behind if you do stop !  :cuss





 :wht11
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on August 17, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
I have just updated the picture links for this post, seeing Photobucket buggered everything up and we have a lot of new members who might be interested in the art of crimping,
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: ruSTynutz on August 17, 2020, 09:35:14 PM
Much appreciated, Brock!  :thumbs
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on December 14, 2020, 09:22:21 PM
Here is an example of why you should crimp, and what happens in the jaws of a Hydraulic crimper.

This is an Anderson plug pin that has been hacksawed in half and polished to show the crimp structure.

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/97d0b1d818270e3ffb75f4097d8fea5e.jpg)

As seen through a digital microscope... ( and I thought it was polished, it sure feels smooth)

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/535843c57465f452198b4097d851541e.jpg)

Really zoomed in, too bad its only 720P   you can see the boundary of the terminal and the wire, but not the individual wires.

(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2020/12/14/91e9d18e1e4f60044a86b90b21461886.jpg)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: CallMeSteve on December 14, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
Thanks Brock. Fascinating.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on December 14, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
I think I will do examples of flood soldering in the Anderson plug and tinning the wire prehand, should be interesting
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: West Aussie Glen on December 16, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
I think I will do examples of flood soldering in the Anderson plug and tinning the wire prehand, should be interesting
I know you need something to do but:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjG6-PxNBs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IjG6-PxNBs)
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on December 16, 2020, 11:14:49 AM
Precisely why I want to show the difference between just flood soldering and tinning then soldering the wire in.

Flood soldering may not penetrate the wire bundle fully.
I even made that suggestion on the video..
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: CallMeSteve on December 16, 2020, 01:21:42 PM

Flood soldering may not penetrate the wire bundle fully.

Thanks.  I was very interested to hear what you had to say.  I'd always considered it a no-no, but my official soldering training was unofficial, and my 'skill' was regularly (and still is) mocked by the technicians I worked with.

Yet the guy on the video seems to think it's a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: West Aussie Glen on December 16, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
I found that using resin cord you get little build up of flux on top of the pool of solder thereby tinning the wire as it goes in. But I haven't destructed one to see that it did. A lot would probably depend on the state of the wire.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on December 16, 2020, 07:36:16 PM
to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.

The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Gadget on December 16, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.

The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.
That matches the training I had on the High Reliability Hand Soldering course in 1991.

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Biggles on December 17, 2020, 12:44:25 PM
to tin a thick wire bundle, requires a pot with heated resin into which the wire is dipped. The wire is then dipped into a pot of molten 60/40 solder and held there for a little while to allow solder to heat the wire and penetrate.

The tinned wire is now inserted into the terminal end loaded with molten solder and help firmly until the solder has started to cool and set.

Thank goodness that's for thick bundles!  The gauges of wire I use get covers all the strands with a bit of tinning (checking both sides, the bottom can miss out).
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on December 18, 2020, 12:08:23 AM
I did mine in 72, and again in 73 ( radio course and the Elecfit course) and again a few more times when I did advanced electronic repair and multi layer circuit board repair courses..

No I cant see the tracks on the boards with out a microscope.

 :|||| :||||
Title: Re: Wire Crimp (terminals) tools and wire.
Post by: Brock on April 29, 2023, 10:56:49 AM
Just bumping this thread again for new members.

The information contained here is from my Airforce training and 50 years of experience..