Knock Sensors

[saaz]

Interesting information. I suspect that the ECU could be damaged in some cases.  Are there any upgarded sensor wires or extra shielding that might help it survive?

[honda tech]

No John.
Only the loom from Honda. All I do. Is wrap the new loom in a exhaust sticky back foil. And move where it roots. Also I no off guys putting the race exhaust tape on the down pipes that's going to help keep the heat down.

[Baz48]

My 2004 ST1300 has a problem with the FI warning light coming on and indicating a knock sensor fault.  Sensors tested ok & new wiring harness installed by Honda. It now seems the ECU/ECM could be at fault. 

Does anyone have access to a spare ECU/ECM that could be used by the workshop as a comparison to determine whether or not my own ECU/ECM is faulty?  Alternatively if you're taking your ST1300 in for service at Nerang and would be prepared to let the shop check my unit against yours please let me know.

The shop doesn't have an ECU in stock and if one is brought in especially and doesn't cure the problem then the shop is left with an expensive item on hand.  Whilst the occasional ECU is available on eBay there is again the risk that big $ are spent and the replacement might not eliminate the problem.  It would be great to know for sure my ECU/ECM is at fault before commiting to the expense of purchasing a replacement.

If you can help please send a message or reply to this post.    You could also email me at caznbaz1@bigpond.com or phone (07)5524 8852

Cheers
Baz48

[Whizz]

I'm beginning to think that this is more a problem of design than implementation. What I mean by that is that Honda, in their infinite wisdom, got it wrong, and did a crappy piece if design on this particular bit of an otherwise perfect machine.

So, can the 'knock sensors' be by-passed, or maybe simply removing the globe from the 'red light' would do the trick, after all everyone seems to be saying that there really isn't a fault there other than faulty indication. By removing the indication the problem would appear to be resolved.

I know that this isn't the right way to fault-find a problem, but if all other actions show that there really isn't anything wrong, and Honda can't come up with a solution, then maybe we simply ignore the problem all together.

[Biggles]

The way these electrickery things work, the ECU would probably protest if the knock sensors were removed.
And you can't just pull the FI globe, because it obviously needs to warn of any other fault that pops up.

The ECU swap out is the best solution.  Is there a delaer with a workshop and an ST13 in the sales lot?

[honda tech]

The fi light is a led anyway so can't just take it out. Plus when the ecu picks up its knocking or the fault thinking its knocking then it remaps itself to stop engine damage. You can feel and hear it when this happens.
9times out of 10. Replacing the wire Lomb fixes this problem and can be good to do as in some cases the no3 injector connector melts as well but will only see that once the airbox is off.
I'm a head tech at a local Honda dealer and I'm trying to source out a ECM to try. It has to be a 04 model as the later ones are different. Plus will need a key due to the hiss.im sure its what this problem is. But there is a chance. I had had problems with st1300s with the bank of wires that all go into a yellow connector. And the bank of earths under the top fairing. But in this case they check out ok. But can be a worlds smallest break in the Lomb somewhere else. Again common on the left hand side where the wires route between the frame and tank.

Saying this. If anyone has any probs/work you need help with. Just pm me ill be happy to help.

[Whizz]

OK, just a thought...obviously not a very clever one, but actually meant rather more tongue-in-cheek than dead-pan serious!

[Baz48]

Finally my knock sensor problem appears to be at an end and I can use my bike again.  As you can read in my earlier post, neither replacing the sub harness ((a necessary replacement in my case) or knock sensor prevented the FI light from coming on at around 4000 rpm and the Honda tech was convinced the ECU might be at fault.  No units were available for substitution to confirm the diagnosis so I trolled eBay and found a used ECU complete with ignition key, ignition barrel, fuel filler cap, and locks for the panniers and left storage pocket was available in Italy.  After some negotiation I bought the unit for $400 which was a good price when compared with the $1500 or so needed to buy a new one locally.  The new unit was fitted and the chip from the Italian ignition key was placed in my "old" key so it would work as per usual.  My spare key wouldn't accept reprogramming so a new blank was purchased for $40 and programmed to suit the new ECU. 

It was also suggested that I wrap the exhaust headers on both sides with a heat reducing wrap.  I bought a 50 foot roll from Autobahn ($59) which was sufficient to wrap all 4 headers (I cut the roll into 4 equal lengths first) from the top, almost to the bottom.  Although the entire header isn't wrapped it more than covers the critical areas near the knock sensor and sub harness.  The fibreglass wrap certainly does its job well as it's now possible to carefully touch the wrapped and & (very) hot header pipe without burning your finger. 

In between the incessant rain showers of late I've managed a few road tests in the critical rev range and so far the FI light has, thankfully, never come on - long may that be the case.

It seems many bikes with the knock sensor issue can be fixed by replacing the sub harness or at least replacing the burnt out wire itself, but obviously there are some bikes where replacing the ECU is the only fix.

So to those of you who also have this annoying fault, it's certainly able to be fixed but you must be prepared to work through a process of elimination to find the fault and effect a cure.

Thanks a lot to Chris and Julian at Team Moto Honda, Nerang for the many hours spent in sorting the issue for me.

[Biggles]

Good write-up, and good find of the necessary replacement at an achievable price.  Just a pity it proved so hard to diagnose.
Cheers for the dealer who worked at it.  I keep an eye on Nerang Honda because they seem to have a lot of 'Wings.
Not that I'd ever buy one.   

[honda tech]

You are very welcome baz.
Glad I got to the bottom of it. There not much I can't fix when it come to these. See you next service. And thanks for the nice write up. 

[Shiney]

Awesome news Baz

[rally]

 
Hi chaps,
I weighed into this discussion some time ago and it seems to be an ongoing problem BUT I have noticed that my ST 1300, a 2003 model , NO ABS or Electric Windscreen with over 160,000 klms has never had this problem and my mates with ABS models have.  Could the unsolved problem only be with abs models with their more complicated electronics ?????? have any NON ABS bikes had this problem?????

luv and kisses
Rally

[Biggles]

You might be onto something, Rally, but AFAIK the ABS is completely separate from the ECU system.  More complex as a whole, but not integrated.  It's still possible there is a different ECU in the ABS bikes.

[Sicman]

The techincal name for knock sensors  - Ears 

[saaz]

It would be far easier if Honda allowed access to the ECU by some sort of diagnostic/tuning software.  Triumph does this, and tunes and other parameters can be updated/upgraded over time, even if only official OEM chnages.

[garyr]

Hi I have the same problem might do a trip to nerang team moto was there on Saturday brought new tyres top tyres to set of angels
Bugger garyr

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Baz48]

Good luck with sorting your knock sensor problem.  Hope yours in an easier and less time consuming process than mine turned out to be.  Keep us informed with the diagnosis and eventual result.

[tlindy]

Same right knock sensor issue here.  I have an '03 ST1300 Non-ABS but it DOES have an electric windshield (The original owner, a Honda Exec, had it installed...more money than brains I suspect).  The problem just started for me at 49,000 miles (78,857 km).  F1 light comes on at 4,400 RPM's without exception, hot days or cold.  I live in Seattle so most days are "cold" 75 degrees F down to 45 degrees F (24C down to 7C).

Took off all the Tupperware and replaced (spliced in new) the wire leading to the knock sensor.  The previous wire did look as though it had endured a lot of heat. Wrapped the new wire in tinfoil, then wrapped it in heat resistant tape.  Made certain it stood off from the header as well, although it never seemed to be touching. 

Now, oddly, it won't come on as regularly at 4,400 RPM's, but it still comes on.  There seems little rhyme or reason as to when it comes on.  Sometimes I can ride all day and it won't come on, even when it's hot outside.  I'm convinced outside temp has little to nothing to do with it, as I've ridden 1,000 miles (1,609 km) in various temps.  I'm inclined to think I didn't replace enough of the wire OR the connector that plugs onto the sensor.  It was cracked but I checked the fitting (looked OK) and placed Anti Corrosive Zinc Paste on the connector (BTW, I put the paste on ALL connections when I have them apart...have learned it saves me MUCH future troubles).

I'm rather OCD about everything running and looking right on the bike, but I'm not about to purchase a new ECM just to make the F1 light go away (I'd rather spend my money on other stupid farkles for my bike).  I've read enough about this F1 issue to believe it's no issue at all, mechanically speaking.  My only concern is, what if there's another NEW issue and the F1 light is still indicating 26 blips from the knock sensor and I don't see another F1 trouble indicator because of it?  Will it blink another code as well, thus indicating TWO independent issues?  I don't know...

I'm going to open her back up and replace more of the wire and attempt to replace the connector as well.  Like I said, it seems as though that partially fixed the problem, but not every time I ride. I will post here again with whatever results I get.

Ride Safely!!

[honda tech]

Hey buddy.
Welcome to the land of the st fi light. I have left the Honda main dealer now and doing stuff from home. To save guys some money. (Nice plug hey. Haha. )
Unfortunately you can't just snip and splice in a new wire onto the loomb. It's a wire that has a shielding and a core. Like 3 wires in one.
So that could be the only problem that's bring the light on. As I said before. It's one of the most problems they suffer. Best to get the light fixed as I did say in a post I'm sure the ecu go's into a kind of limp mode to stop the engine detonating. Is this the cause of bazs ecu going wrong. ? Who knows but it won't do it or the bike any good by choosing not to fix the problem.
As for the connector that's common. They crack under heat and go brittle. That's why every time I put in a new loomb I always stick the foil around it and use race pipe heat wrap.

So bottom line is. Get a new knock sensor loomb and wrap the pipes. Only way to fix it I'm sorry to say. I've done so many of these but only had the one ecu problem. Make sure it stays that way. 

[tlindy]

Honda Tech,

Thanks for the info!  To your point, "...it won't do it or the bike any good by choosing not to fix the problem", I completely agree.  But I from what I had read here, it didn't appear to be a "major" issue, and certainly not one that warranted buying an ECU just to make a light go away.  With that said, I also understand that the light is on for a reason...something IS wrong and should be addressed.  I have too much on my plate to take the bike down to a point where I can replace that loom, but based upon your recommendation, I eventually will.

Interesting though how some guys report that replacing the wire (Splicing in a new one) does seem to fix the issue.  I'm fairly mechanically savvy, and didn't notice that the wire had, "...a shielding and a core. Like 3 wires in one".  Had I noticed this, I would have stopped my masterful splicing (If I may say so myself) and looked into an actual correct wire replacement (I guess it takes the whole loom). 

Again, thanks for your help.  I'm off to buy a loom and enough beer for such a project :-)

Tlindy

[alchemist]

Has anyone got a spare loom with a plug like this floating about? Honda wants about $150 for a new loom but I just need the connector.

Over on another site I read you can get this one, which fits but they won't send to Australia 

http://www.partsgeek.com/x8hs216-honda-pilot-knock-sensor-harness.html?utm_source=shopzilla&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=wcs&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+ShopZilla&fp=pp&utm_term=Honda+Knock+Sensor+Harness

[Pezzz]

Have you tried two wheel wreckers?  Or Maddington Motorcycle Wreckers?  Or Motorcycle Masters? Or Brock (just kidding).

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

[Pezzz]

What about getting them to send to an "on forwarding" shipping company? A customer often does this when he needs stuff they won't send over seas.

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

[alchemist]

Thanks Pezzz some good suggestions there, tried one of those wreckers already without luck I'll try the others tomorrow.

Hmmm interesting I'll look into that one also failing the other wreckers!

Wouldn't surprise me Brock has one floating about tho.... lol

[Brock]

I dont have the connectors, try looking on the eastern beaver web site, they have all sorts of plugs.

http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/Sealed/sealed.html