I've seen the light....

[Dan]

...well sorta.

Since I have a little spare time at the moment I decided to do some 'preparation' on mu bike, in this case 'upgrading' the headlights.

I decided to go for HIDs - 4300k, 35w, AC with H4-3 bulbs (the ones where the burner moves back and forth for high/low beam).  I found some on eBay (there are plenty on there) and after contacting the seller to make sure they where what I wanted, ordered them.

They arrived OK, but the guy sent me DC, not the AC ones I wanted.  I can't be bothered to try to contact the seller and change them for AC, it won't be worth the hassle.  I would've left appropriate feedback but eBay removed the listing so I can't leave anything!!  (The seller is reginchan, if anyone is interested - but I suspect there are a number of accounts operated by the same people).

Anyway, I took the bike apart and installed the HIDs which wasn't too difficult really.  I used 'switch 7' on the Police controls to allow me to switch off the headlights so they are not on when I start the bike - I've read reports that this can cause problems.  So now they are in and working.  Initially the bulbs were 2 different colours, but they seem to be getting closer now.

As for performance - well I can safely say that I am underwhelmed.  Yes, to look at, they are pretty bright - I wouldn't want to stare at them for too long!  They also seem to light up the reflective road signs quite far away.  But in terms of lighting up the road, I would say that, at best, they are as good as the normal bulbs I had before.  There is a lot of light, it just doesn't seem to get 'thrown' forward very well.  I wonder if the ST's light isn't the best for HIDs, or the H4-3 bulbs are too much of a compromise or maybe both.  The light is a lot 'paler' than normal bulbs, so part of me hopes that I am just not used to them - but my gut tells me that they are just not that good.

I'm gonna stick with them - might as well since they are in - but if I was to get another ST1100, I wouldn't bother again.  A decent pair of bulbs would be better I reckon.


I also added a pair of Hella FF50 driving lights.  Got them from eBay too, about $115 delivered I think.  Wired in to use 'Switch 8' on the Police controls, and linked to high beam.  I used the Police brackets to mount the lights. 

They should still work even if the HIDs fail (I have done some testing so I believe my wiring is correct!).  I wanted this as a 'back-up' until I have confidence in the reliability of the HIDs.

These things are great.  The Roos had better put their shades on when I fire these things up!  They throw the light far forward and completely take over from the HIDs when they are on. 

So, a partial success.  In summary, I wouldn't bother with HIDs again - at least not on this bike - but my curiosity needed to be fulfilled and at least I have done that.  I do recommend the FF50s though.  I don't know if they are any better / worse than other lights, but I do know they work pretty well.




....as an added bonus - I found out how to work my hazard lights!  I thought that they didn't work, because nothing happened when the button was pressed.  I thought it was something to do with the decommissioning of the Police goodies.

After I had finished with my wiring, I set off on my bike.  When I hit the indicator switch, I was shocked to see both green lights flashing!  My initial reaction was'oh s**t, what wiring have I messed up'.  A few arm signals later, when the initial rush had passed, I thought to myself 'Hmmm, these look like hazard lights - I wonder what happens if I push the hazard switch....' et voila!  Back to indicators!  I had a little play with my new-found flashing lights and carried on, happy as a sand boy! 

[alans1100]

I went from standard H4 globes to H4 60/55w 6000k blue tint Xenon globes and for night time use are ok. Also two 3 inch driving lights are wired in to legal standards but I can't remember the wattage. Anyway lights are good enough for highway speed limits and the standard 1100 lights are way better than any bike I've had before. Not that I do a lot of night riding these days but it's unavoidable doing a day trip to dads or a run to the city which are both three hour one way trips

I would have thought the hazard lights would have been an independent system and not in conjuction with indicators. Live and learn.......lol

[tj189]

Des,

The results of your HID's, as you have described, would make me feel that there is a problem.  Whilst I am running 6000k in my headlight the FF50 have the 4300k, there is a difference in the light as the 4300k have a slightly more yellow tinge. The light thrown from the headlight is far better than the OEM headlight and the "upgraded" normal bulbs that I have tried.

There is an awful lot of information about HID upgrade on a number of honda ST sites and photos/video comparisons between the OEM lights and HID lights all showing good results (at least the ones I have looked at).  Is there still that dark area just in front of the bike (at night) when the lights are on, between the bike and where the light takes up?  if so the bulbs may not be seated correctly (see Diesels install). If all is well and the the area in front is being lit with no dark spot then I am not sure what the problem could be.  It is concerning that you described "Initially the bulbs were 2 different colours, but they seem to be getting closer now" as I do not believe this to be normal.  Have you also used the adapter rings?

TJ

[tj189]

Alan, I see you have had some response from another forum regarding the loss of light output with blue tinted bulbs.  I actually had these in prior to upgrading to HID and found them ok and a big improvement to OEM but must say I have more light on the road with the HID headlights.  (I still have the blue tinted ones if you ever need some free spares) 

[alans1100]

TJ,

I went to blue tint as a tryout only and the globes where cheap enough on E-bay and I'm on the second set cause I blew globe. The second set are 6000k and brighter than the first so I'm guessing they were 4300k. Also different supplier.

The main issue I had using 60/55w standard H4 was on low beam as I kept getting flashed as if my lights were still on high beam (incorrect bulb alignment ???). So I went to blue tint to reduce some of that glare. Now I have the shims and when the xenon globes fail I'll go back to the standard H4 that I still have as a spare set and see what oncoming motorists do then.

[Dan]

Des,

The results of your HID's, as you have described, would make me feel that there is a problem.  Whilst I am running 6000k in my headlight the FF50 have the 4300k, there is a difference in the light as the 4300k have a slightly more yellow tinge. The light thrown from the headlight is far better than the OEM headlight and the "upgraded" normal bulbs that I have tried.

There is an awful lot of information about HID upgrade on a number of honda ST sites and photos/video comparisons between the OEM lights and HID lights all showing good results (at least the ones I have looked at).  Is there still that dark area just in front of the bike (at night) when the lights are on, between the bike and where the light takes up?  if so the bulbs may not be seated correctly (see Diesels install). If all is well and the the area in front is being lit with no dark spot then I am not sure what the problem could be.  It is concerning that you described "Initially the bulbs were 2 different colours, but they seem to be getting closer now" as I do not believe this to be normal.  Have you also used the adapter rings?

TJ

Hmm, interesting...

I did use the adaptor rings in the end, as I couldn't get the bulbs to seat very well without them.  I had to file the inside of the rings to get them to seat at the base of the bulbs, but even so the rings make them sit slightly further back than without them (by the thickness of the ring). 

[tj189]

Pretty sure there should have been no requirement to file the rings, sounding more like a problem with the bulbs.  If they are not seated on the rings correctly there could well be an issue

[Dan]

Pretty sure there should have been no requirement to file the rings, sounding more like a problem with the bulbs.  If they are not seated on the rings correctly there could well be an issue

Well they are cheap Chinese kit, so I wouldn't be surprised - then again the rings were cheap too.  I tested the rings on the normal bulbs too, they were tight there as well.

I might have a play around with the bulbs, see if I can get them to seat nicely without the rings and see if it makes any difference.

[rocketeer]

All of my bikes have HID's fitted not long after I pick the bike up, yes they throw out an insane amount of light out compared to the standard filament bulbs, but it is far more latent light rather than focused.  For me it's great to light up the sides of road looking for eyes, and riding through traffic I know there is NO WAY someone can say 'but I didn't see you'. 

My favourite upgrade in cars, and if the bike already has reasonable lighting is Phillips +100 bulbs- about $40-$60 delivered off ebay, I've always been happy with the result in all but one vehicle- my girlfriend's EL falcon.  If upgrading earths, power and relay don't improve it then I think I'll go HID's.  She does too many late night country road runs.

[scarp]

I have to agree Des after fitting the HID's to my bike I'd never do it again I reckon they were worse that the standard 45/45 Honda globe Yes it was a cheap kit I wont bother buying a more expensive one. I've since taken them out & I'll prolly chuck them in the bin.
As for the shims I don't believe they are needed either

[Dan]

I have to agree Des after fitting the HID's to my bike I'd never do it again I reckon they were worse that the standard 45/45 Honda globe Yes it was a cheap kit I wont bother buying a more expensive one. I've since taken them out & I'll prolly chuck them in the bin.
As for the shims I don't believe they are needed either

  I was wondering when you'd get to this thread!

I think part of the problem is the 'H4'-style bulb.  I've read before from a supposedly* reputable UK HID supplier that they really didn't recommend HID's for H4 headlamps. 

I'm quite fancying a BMW GS at the moment (this week anyway...) and they have pitiful headlights, but they do have separate high/low beam.  Owners tend to be pleased with a HID dipped beam on these.  I know I've been blinded by a HID-equipped GS when it was following me in the car once.  I've also ridden a K1200S with a HID dipped beam - I can't say I was amazed by it, but it wasn't bad.  My mate reckons it was a lot better than standard.

So basically, I am prepared to waste my money all over again if/when I get another bike!      (Don't tell the wife!  ).

*I don't know, I never used them personally

[scarp]

  I was wondering when you'd get to this thread!

:)

[alans1100]

I put my shims in a couple months ago and I'd say I have an improvement giving me a more defined low beam pattern over not having them in.
As most of us either cut or bend the lower tabs to install the globes a mis alignment occurs due to the lower tabs not locating the globe causing the globe to sit an angle. With the shims in place the alignment is corrected even if the globe sits that little bit further back.

I'm using 60/55W 6000k blue tint Xenon H4 globes which throw out a whiter light than the standard H4 globe. I bought the Xenon globes from China for the low delivered price of about $7.00 for tryout use only and they've been in use since January 2012.

I hear that in some countries it is illegal to put HID's in cars/bikes that never had them as OE because of the reflector/lens design.

[Dan]

I hear that in some countries it is illegal to put HID's in cars/bikes that never had them as OE because of the reflector/lens design.

That's how it is in the UK, the lights need to be 'self-levelling' to be allowed HID's.

HID conversions are really popular over there on bikes and cars, and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled by the Police or failing an MOT (annual roadworthy) for having them.

[Garry_Coates]

Guys,
       would somebody mind measuring the thickness of the adapter rings? The distance from the H4 base to the bottom of the hi beam filament is 28.5 mm. Refer attached.

Regards
           Garry

[Brock]

My addapter ring is .90mm thick or .036" according to my digital calipers ( tested correct, its handy working in a cal lab sometimes.)

[saaz]

I hear that in some countries it is illegal to put HID's in cars/bikes that never had them as OE because of the reflector/lens design.

That's how it is in the UK, the lights need to be 'self-levelling' to be allowed HID's.

HID conversions are really popular over there on bikes and cars, and I've never heard of anyone getting pulled by the Police or failing an MOT (annual roadworthy) for having them.

BMW run HID low beams in a few of their bikes, most notably the K1600. No self levelling suspension as far as I know, but for cars I believe it is mandatory to have self levelling suspension, hence on some Holdens the HID option is only with certain suspension options.The main problem with retro HID conversions is more light scatter, depending on how good the bikes reflectors are. The ST11 standard reflector is nothing special, and there is a bit more light scatter with HIDs. ST13 seems to have a better reflector design.  My car has projector style low beams and they work well with HIDs, but again there is a touch more light scatter.  On some bikes or cars I don't think I would used HIDs as the reflector design is just not up to it and low beam just goes all over the place.

[Brock]

While on lighting, and following a discussion on many things with Streak yesterday after noon, the cost of the police brackets came up and their cost. So this morning, I went out to the scrap pile and knocked this up in about an hour. Its a bit rough, not finished but its a prooff of concept.





Its made from 13mm square tube bent around a bit of 50mm pipe ( I think) with some flat strap for securing lights (Top and bottom) and too the mirror mounts. Just need some round tube te right diameter to finish that off.

So the handy men out there with the tools, with a bit of care and time some decent custom brackets can be had for not much outlay. I wont be going any further with the idea at the present, but the frame is there for others to try.

[Dan]

BMW run HID low beams in a few of their bikes, most notably the K1600. No self levelling suspension as far as I know, but for cars I believe it is mandatory to have self levelling suspension, hence on some Holdens the HID option is only with certain suspension options.The main problem with retro HID conversions is more light scatter, depending on how good the bikes reflectors are. The ST11 standard reflector is nothing special, and there is a bit more light scatter with HIDs. ST13 seems to have a better reflector design.  My car has projector style low beams and they work well with HIDs, but again there is a touch more light scatter.  On some bikes or cars I don't think I would used HIDs as the reflector design is just not up to it and low beam just goes all over the place.

The K1600 had self-levelling lights, basically an automated version of the twiddly knob we have to adjust our headlight height.  I think this is what is needed in the UK, I would guess it's similar in Oz?

http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/bmw-k-1600-adaptive-headlight

It also does some fancy stuff for cornering.

I wouldn't mind a go on a K1600....

[saaz]

A K1600 and GS adventure are on my list of things just to try out, along with the Triump 1200 Explorer and the Honda 1200 Crosstourer that is being launched in Australia as we type.

[Dan]

A K1600 and GS adventure are on my list of things just to try out, along with the Triump 1200 Explorer and the Honda 1200 Crosstourer that is being launched in Australia as we type.

I've ridden both the 1200 GS and GSA (twin cam engines) and wasn't 'wowed' by them - found the front to be 'numb' I guess. Shame as I do love the GS, and the twin cam engine is very nice.  The GS was definitely more 'sporty' than the GSA, but some of that could be down to the GS being almost out of fuel vs a nearly full tank on the GSA.  The GSA looks better though, the GS looked a bit girlie to me.     

I rode an 1150GS too and probably liked that a bit more.  I'd probably go for an 1150 based on the reliability record of the 1200's. 

For Oz I reckon the GS would be a good bike, but if I was back on the UK I would be all over a KTM Adventure - I love those bikes.  But the manic personality would probably get me very banned very quickly over here!  Here is one of my mates riding his, he could have any bike he wanted but loves his KTM!!



  but hey it's my thread and I don't care!!

[STeveo]

I don't understand all the fiddling with adaptor rings and such to fit H4 bulbs into 1100s. All I did was take the headlight out and modify the mountings for the bulb by filing a new groove for a standard H4. I had to cut off one tab because of the screw mounting the wire bracket and put a dob of Devcon on the edge of the hole to support the new bulb so it sat straight. The headlight can now take either the standard Honda bulb or any H4 that you can buy from auto part shop.

 

[scarp]

The main problem with retro HID conversions is more light scatter, depending on how good the bikes reflectors are. The ST11 standard reflector is nothing special, and there is a bit more light scatter with HIDs. ST13 seems to have a better reflector design.  My car has projector style low beams and they work well with HIDs, but again there is a touch more light scatter.  On some bikes or cars I don't think I would used HIDs as the reflector design is just not up to it and low beam just goes all over the place.

Thats the exact problem I had with my 1300 the light Scatter as you call it was all over the place there was more light yes but the Glow from the lights irritated me so much I had to remove them

[Biggles]

Thats the exact problem I had with my 1300 the light Scatter as you call it was all over the place there was more light yes but the Glow from the lights irritated me so much I had to remove them

I guess that's why it's really better to install dedicated separate lights with the appropriate reflectors to supplement the OEM lights.

[Maverick75]

I'm planning on a pair of these after I sell my GS-



Hella Micro DE HID.

They are expensive but I think they are worth it. The light output is quite spectacular.

I have read that HIDs need to be matched to their reflectors, because of the size of the light source (H4 elements represent a much smaller point source than the xenon tube in HIDs) which is why the light from a HID bulb scatters so much in standard housings. We have factory HID low beams in our family car and they are absolutely awesome.

I think the standard H4 on the ST is pretty good, I have plus 50s in it and they light up the road quite nicely, but the hellas should make it so much better riding at night.