Author Topic: Is this guy MAD?  (Read 6072 times)

Online LindsayGT

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Is this guy MAD?
« on: January 24, 2021, 07:51:51 PM »
Watching Boyer Lecture: Andrew Forrest in iview
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/boyer-lecture-andrew-forrest

Or is he on to something?
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Offline Yorkie

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2021, 09:08:59 PM »
I watched it at the time and he made some good points, eg if USA, 4% of the world population, went to electric cars next week there is not enough copper in the world for that to happen let alone the rest of us so electric vehicles are not in the mix.
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Offline ST1100_GREG

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2021, 11:57:01 AM »
Hydrogen powered vehicles will be electric with a H2 powercell. Very applicable to the heavy vehicle range but less so for domestic vehicles. Yes lots of copper required. Best buy shares in copper today

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2021, 02:02:22 PM »
I'm looking forward to the take-up of hydrogen powered cars... :thumbs

They make much more sense than lugging around a heavy bank of batteries which then require hours to charge.
Hydrogen tanks can be similar in size to a petrol driven car's tank and filling time will be similar...much more convenient in my opinion.

Toyota & Hyundai already have cars being trialled in Australia...


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Offline Gadget

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2021, 05:34:47 PM »
The Hyundai Neo is supposed to go on sale here this year.

1000 km Range on a tank does make it attractive. However, the only Hydrogen bowser on Brisbane, is over at Rocklea, 42 km (50 minutes) each way.

And for Hydrogen to work, it needs to be Green Hydrogen (produced by renewables, not Coal or Gas)

I have 10 and 15 Amp GPOs in the garage, so recharging won't be a problem.

My normal work commute is just over 30 km, and the Daughter's place is a similar distance. So once a week recharge would suffice. Connecting and disconnecting take about 20 seconds each.

There are alternatives to Copper for engines. Aluminium is quite a good conductor, and there's heaps of that.

Also Battery Tech is evolving so fast, lighter batteries with more dense energy are less than 10 years away.

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Online Kev Murphy

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2021, 06:45:37 PM »
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2021, 06:46:04 PM »
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2021, 07:14:41 PM »
75 Electric car models available in UK and Europe this year.

https://youtu.be/oQqEHd0gQCM

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2021, 08:32:45 PM »
Really not a fan of battery powered cars, too much weight...Bring on Hydrogen!!!   :rockon



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Offline Jdbiker

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2021, 08:50:11 PM »
 :rofl. It would be sad to see the demise of the internal combustion engine 😢😢
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2021, 09:05:28 PM »
I agree, JD... :thumb

I think I'll stick with my little diesel for a while longer.
I can't see an Eveready/Duracell powered vehicle having a 1,300km range like my little Hyundai has any time soon...  8)


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Online Kev Murphy

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 10:16:00 PM »
 :rofl
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Offline Langers

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2021, 10:18:09 PM »
I'd like to see the day you can ride your electric motorcycle 400+km and swing into the servo and pull out the battery pack and slide in the new one, pay the dollars and then ride off.
Unfortunately, I suspect I will be a gopher jockey before that happens.
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 10:29:44 PM »
And you can bet that the battery packs will not fit other brands of cycles ....
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 10:40:35 PM »
I'm sure you'd be right, Kev...You only gotta look at the different chargers/plugs etc for electric cars... :||||

https://jetcharge.com.au/resources/ev-guide/vehicle-plug-types


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Offline cravenhaven

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2021, 08:08:20 AM »
Let's sort the outright Bullxxx from the facts.
In OZ there are 3 different plugs for EV's, CCS1, CCS2, ChaDeMo. CCS2 is the adopted standard, but some legacy support for the others still need to be supported, conversion kits are available however. How many handles are there at the standard service station ATM, at least 4 sometimes 5, sometimes 6 (Diesel, Adblue, unleaded, premium, 98, Gas)
The conversion of hydrogen to electricity and then back to electricity is around 50% each way hence hydrogen powered vehicles are around 25% efficient. Way better then ICE at around 15%, but not a patch on EV's at 80-90%. And thats efficiency from well to wheels.
The majority of EV owners simply plug their car in at home and charge overnight, or for those of us retired folks, during the day while the sun is shining. It's only a lack of infrastructure that prevents more of this at parking buildings and workplaces for those who work during the day.
And, before anyone jumps on their high horse about do we have enough electricity to power all this, just  be aware that the electricity generator regulator (AEMO) regularly curtails output from solar and wind farms because we cant use their output and our existing coal and gas units are unable to respond quickly enough to changes in output requirement.
How many riders swing into a servo at 400km, fill up, and swing straight out for another 400km's. 90% (a guess) of riders do a couple of hours at a stretch between coffee or meal breaks, easily enough time to add several hundred kilometres of charge to your EV.
Their are limitations on raw materials for batteries ATM, but there is rapid development on changing materials and processes to reduce or remove difficult materials like Cobalt, copper etc.

In addition, we have almost limitless ability to produce electricity in Australia. Wind, Solar, Gas, Coal, Wave energy, Hydro..... Yet we still prefer to import oil/petrol/diesel.
 
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2021, 03:31:56 PM »
The uptake of electric vehicles has been pretty woeful in Australia. The lack of "range" is probably a major factor, that and the crazy prices that are being asked for an electric vehicle.

What worries me more than anything though is the time it takes to charge...

While it is probably not a major issue at the moment, I'd like to know what happens down the track when there are thousands of vehicles needing a charge at the same time?
It's all well and good saying people can get a partial charge while they are shopping or having a meal or coffee or such, but imagine hundreds of people wanting to do that at the same time?

It can get busy enough at a petrol station at times and most people are only stopped there for a few minutes...what's it gonna be like at a charge point when electric vehicles need to be hooked up for an hour or more and there are dozens of cars lined up waiting???


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Offline cravenhaven

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2021, 04:29:39 PM »
Pretty straight forward actually. At the moment the big shopping centres have half a dozen charge points in them and they are barely used. What's to stop them supplying dozens or even 100's of charge points. They dont need to be particularly powerful, and they can load balance if the need arises.
Everyone thinks of EV's the same way they think of ICE cars, but you need to rethink the way you charge/fill them. We all have the one stop a week paradigm in our head to fill the car up with petrol for the weeks shopping/work etc. Anyone with an EV does their business and comes home to charge/topup/whatever. I believe there a couple of thousand petrol stations in Australia, how many 10amp GPO's are there?.

It's not the lack of range that is the problem with uptake here, its the lack of variety and minimal 2nd hand market. Look at the number of EV vehicle types we have here compared to what's available in UK, Norway, even the USA, we have 1/3 to a 1/5 of those countries. No manufacturer is going to spend the huge outlay in support etc when the attitude of the government towards their product is so negative. Who knows, the govt might put some huge tax on EV's just to support the oil industry. Look at Angus Taylors latest bleatings, his report compares a large EV version of a commercial van with a smaller diesel version and then says that EV's are not competitive.
A few state govts are starting to mandate EVs for govt vehicles, partly to create a 2nd hand supply in the future. There's even a Tasmanian business solely focused on bringing in 2nd hand EV's, and I'm sure more will jump on that bandwagon soon.
BTW have you seen the Electric M'bikes available: Harley Davidson, Zero, Savic(coming). Fonzarelli, Evoke, even Honda has some coming. Nothing of any real interest for touring, but it's definitely coming.
 

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2021, 06:24:21 PM »
I guess time will tell with it all...

I for one certainly won't be rushing out to buy an electric motorcycle or car.

Not enough travel range for those of us that live out in the sticks except perhaps the Hyundai Kona, I guess...and even that would be pushing it.

As for motorcycles..$50,000 for an electric Harley??? They've got to be joking!  |-i


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Offline cravenhaven

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2021, 09:24:45 AM »
We live in the sticks and have no problem with range in our EV. Its much less of a problem than you think. Very few places in Australia without electricity of one sort or another.
 

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2021, 11:11:02 AM »
Quote
We live in the sticks and have no problem with range in our EV.

Not many of have a 30KVA Cummins Diesel genset in a trailer...

 o:) o:) o:)
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Online Kev Murphy

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2021, 11:36:51 AM »
 :crackup :grin
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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2021, 11:54:24 AM »
With the new 300 kW charging systems which are already in use in Europe, it won't take long to add another 200-300 km range in the time it takes to have a leak and a coffee.

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2021, 11:57:05 AM »
We live in the sticks and have no problem with range in our EV. Its much less of a problem than you think. Very few places in Australia without electricity of one sort or another.

Not too many EV charging points in our area...The only one locally, I believe (which is in the next town) is set up for Tesla's and is for Motel patrons only...Other than that, there doesn't seem to be anything within at least a 30k radius.





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Offline cravenhaven

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Re: Is this guy MAD?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2021, 12:45:27 PM »
You're right Rusty,
However if you increase your radius a little you have Wongathi, Cape Paterson, Koo we rup, Phillip Island... And I'm sure there are plenty of GPO's around if one asked nicely.