Author Topic: Final drive - the beginning and in no particular order  (Read 2927 times)

Offline Greencan

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Final drive - the beginning and in no particular order
« on: October 27, 2014, 04:55:30 PM »
Arvo' All...

During the Maintenance Day we kicked off in Victoria on Saturday, I think it'd be safe to stay that the one item that summoned a collective concern was the Final Drive and Wheel assemblies.

There is a lot to take on board as it doesn't feature to the level of interest in the OEM Service Manual compared to the volume of quires it evoked on Saturday. There is good reason for that. As I  expect (from Honda), that their trained technicians would be maintaining your bike and wear and tear patterns are so variable.  They are no written in stone of what and when to do's. The following, therefore is a guide only and, is only one (1) part of how I go about maintaining a final drive / wheel assembly.

OK...So to kick off a couple of clarifiers:

* The OEM Service Manual recommends the use of a hi-moly grease...so if you have it, use it!

* I believe the overriding point here isn't the type of lubricant you use, it's the frequency you elect in routinely cleaning and replacing it.


* I choose to substitute it for Morey's EP-MP2 Waterproof Grease, OR similar. I have found it works because I clean and replace it every time I replace the rear tyre.  This occurs every 15,000km to 18,000km. I find that within this duration, it's properties as an adequate lubricant for correct fitting splines and correct and serviceable damper rubbers and serviceable damper blocks, it has been doing its job.

*Additional considerations are: towing trailers - all up weight - etc. 

So described next, occurs each and every time I replace the rear tyre. There are several steps that get you to the points that follow, adequately published in either an OEM or Haymes service manuals.



After removing the damper rubber / block sets, I tape over the bearing and wash it with a degreaser and rinse with low pressure water...I do not use my hi-pressure cleaner, because apart from the risk of blowing of the tape and injecting water into the bearing, aiming 3000psi of pressurized H2O into a confined space generally results in 2000psi of shyte coming back at you :eek



This wheel has 17 years and 177,000km use and abuse on it...the 'O' ring insitu is a new replacement...the flange drive land (for want of a better word), should NOT look chattered like this. This occurred about 12 years ago due to ignorance about final drive alignment and damper wear on my part! I was fortunate however to be able to hand fettle it to how you see it now...the drive flange to land fit is an easy tolerance 65mm

I was lucky to have caught this in time...any further and the 'O' ring groove that accommodates the 'O' ring would have...(A) compromised the seating of the 'O' ring and, (B) the weight of a poorly supported steel final drive on the land would have further chattered it out of round and worn its diameter to below that of an easy  tolerance fit and thus hasten greater wear of the damper rubbers / blocks. ST1300 wont have this problem.

Now in this example, I use an easy tolerance fit to describe the drive flange being able to place over and removed from the land, without disrupting the 'O' ring. It should be a snug fit. And to that end I have found, that when measured, if the diameter of the drive flange land has chattered / worn to  below 64.5mm to 64mm damper; rubber / block wear is noticeable reduced, irrespective of final drive alignment. Beyond 64mm and the use of an 'O' ring isn't possible, also damper wear is experientially accelerated...as is wear of the wheel! (more on worn wheels at a later date). 

This 'O' ring on this wheel is a must replace, at every tyre replacement due to the damage seen.



The drive flange and wheel land cleaned.



With a little rubber grease, Teflon grease, smear a little to the 'O' ring of these or whatever grease you have chosen to use on the inner drive flange surface and seat the flange into position with the damping components out.

Rationale: To establish that the drive flange can be returned and removed without rolling, disrupting, nicking, or breaking the 'O' ring. If any of the fore mentioned occurs, you will need to either further clean or hand fettle the ring groove to prevent this from occurring.

I use disused  3/16" & 1/4" shafted screw drivers ground down to either de-burr or hand ream / scrape (fettle).



Once happy with the flange to wheel fit...I return the serviceable damper rubbers and alloy blocks. In this instance, both are brand new, but I have used refurbished alloy blocks. I have recently been choosing to lubricated a PTFE (Teflon), product.

Calls made to Nulon technical department and their product information sheet haven't shed any adverse effects with rubber, especially neoprene. This experiment is about 12 months in and to date I am very happy, particularly with its effect on reducing deposits. Work in progress.



With PTFE on the inner surfaces of the damper blocks and on the flange pins, place the flange over the wheel hub / land while aligning the flange pins to the damper blocks.

Hidden from view by my hand is the inner surface of the flange & wheel hub / land that I have lubricated with Morey's EP-MP2 Waterproof Grease

According to the product Information sheet with the PTFE, there is probably no reason it couldn't be used here and on the splines for that matter. But as I mentioned before, tis a work in progress, or confidence on my part.



If, the detail in the previous steps along with instruction from within the manuals have been done, then a firm push with the heel of your hand will first slide, then pop the drive flange into position. Too easy.

(NB if, during the wheel removal you find the drive flange is behaving half arsed between staying with the wheel and staying with the final drive, it will invariably mean that there will issues you will need to address with components within the wheel.)



Morey's EP-MP2 Waterproof Grease applied to the drive flange spline. The 'O' ring here can often be repeatedly used.



Morey's EP-MP2 Waterproof Grease applied to final drive gear spline. The 'O' ring here (on the inside), can often be repeatedly used.



Forget-me-not. But first remember to give the hole the rear calliper pin locates in a clean first.



Forget-me-not also applies to the threaded end of the axle. Also a sparing coat of Morey's EP-MP2 Waterproof Grease along the axle shaft makes life simpler.

THESE STEPS ARE A GUIDE ONLY. IT IS EXPECTED THAT ANYONE UNDERTAKING HOME MAINTENANCE, DOES SO IN CONJUNCTION WITH A CREDIBLE SERVICE MANUAL.

I will expand further on this topic as I repair the final drive and damaged wheel on the bike I am presently working and which these who came to the maintenance day saw on my bench.

Cheers for now,

Ciao, the can :-)
 

Offline pault

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Re: Final drive - the beginning and in no particular order
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 07:28:51 PM »
here. here. I now have two bikes where the previous people who did the servicing used little or no grease on the spider spline, resulting in the wearing of the case hardening and the beginning of the end.
 

Offline alans1100

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Re: Final drive - the beginning and in no particular order
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 07:51:28 PM »
here. here. I now have two bikes where the previous people who did the servicing used little or no grease on the spider spline, resulting in the wearing of the case hardening and the beginning of the end.

Same here........I've had tyre changes done by a dedicated bike tyre dealer and splines greased as I was watching. My last tyre change done by a Honda dealer (who should know better) in 2011 ended up with no splines greased. Tyre changes in WA were done by two dealers one of which had done at least three and on the last occasion I was asked to remove the wheel myself as it would be cheaper.....discovered the splines where dry as a bone........

Since I've repaired the final drive I've had one tyre change and all looks good with the splines.

1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 

Offline Yorkie

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Re: Final drive - the beginning and in no particular order
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 09:20:13 PM »
This is the reason I prefer to remove and replace wheels myself when tyres are needed.
Brian 0418937173
Manager York Motor Museum

In the shed
1999 ST1100A
1971 CB750K2
1980 XV750
1977 GL1000
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York,WA

So at what age does this "old enough to know better" kick in?
I believe in the "hereafter", every time I go to the shed I have to think "what am I here after"