Author Topic: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead  (Read 3744 times)

Offline Whizz

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Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« on: October 22, 2012, 03:49:09 PM »
Just read this in the Brisbane Times on-line newspaper;

Motorcycles are more popular than ever but becoming a biker in Queensland is set to become a whole lot tougher in the wake of a report from a government inquiry into motorcycle licensing tabled at Parliament today.

According to the committee charged with investigating the licensing process, there is “ample evidence” the state's current system can be improved, with 12 recommendations for change made to the Minister for Transport and Main Roads Scott Emerson.

Chief among them is the call for an independent evaluation of the state's two-pronged Q-Ride and Q-SAFE approach, and the introduction of heavier testing before and after a licence is granted.

The testing would include compulsory pre-learner off-road training and assessment, specific risk taking and hazard perception training and follow-up “skills refreshment” for riders returning to their bikes after time off the road.
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The rider knowledge test also needed more questions, the committee found. Currently, the Queensland test has only five questions, and applicants can pass with four correct responses.

In his forward to the report, Chairman Howard Hobbs said the committee had taken the inquiry very seriously due to the rising popularity of motorcycles and the fact riders were “inherently more vulnerable” than car drivers.

“Unfortunately this means riders involved in a crash are often seriously injured or lose their lives,” Mr Hobbs said.

“The committee is mindful of the immense personal, social, economic and health costs this road trauma imposes on the Queensland community.”

According to the report, male riders are most likely to be injured, comprising 92.5 per cent of serious crashes involving motorcycles where gender was known. Riders aged between 40 and 49 years were the age group most at risk, though novice riders of any age were more likely than experienced riders to crash.

The most common circumstance of serious crashes involving a motorcycle is colliding with another vehicle at an angle (31.6 per cent), followed by motorcyclists falling from their motorcycle (25.9 per cent), and hitting an object (18.5 per cent). For the period between 2008 and 2011, TMR calculated that the key contributing factors attributed to motorcycle riders in single-vehicle fatal crashes were speeding (43.9 per cent), drink driving (illegal Blood Alcohol Concentration) (35.2 per cent) and/or other alcohol or drug use (8 per cent).

However, the committee also found fatality rates per registered vehicle for motorcyclists in the state have been falling since 2007, with only 3.02 riders per 10,000 registered motorcycles involved in fatal crashes for the period to date (the national average is 3.39).

That comes as the popularity of motorcycling continues to rise. According to Australian Bureau of Statistics figures quoted in the committee report, motorcycles as a vehicle type recorded the highest growth over the five-year period from 2006-2011.

The data also shows that as of January last year, 23.1 per cent of the 678,790 registered motorcycles in Australia were registered in Queensland, putting the state third behind New South Wales and Victoria. But when adjusted per head of population, Queensland has the second-highest number of motorcycles registered, after Western Australia.


Comment anyone??
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Offline Streak

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 04:14:41 PM »
Quote
The testing would include compulsory pre-learner off-road training and assessment, specific risk taking and hazard perception training and follow-up “skills refreshment” for riders returning to their bikes after time off the road.

I think it is a good thing, as if you have to actually do proper training before you get on the highway, is very much like the car license, Teela had to do the 100 hours of the Learner hours, before she was put on the road by herself, as well as the driving lessons, i made her go driving in all condition's so she understood what can happen.

I did next to nothing to get my license, and I was very lucky that my brother in law made very sure I had every piece of education he could give and organise for me (had something to do with not wanting to have to ring my mother and say i had an accident seeing he got me into bikes)

And the riders returning the the road after years of not riding makes perfect sense to me, I have had many a conversation with people who have had a big fright in the power difference to the bikes they where on 10 years ago to now.

Anything that works towards education, and safer riding I am all thumbs up for, We all want to come home in one piece.

Cheers

Graham (Streak)

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Online Brock

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 07:44:06 PM »
Quote
follow-up “skills refreshment” for riders returning to their bikes after time off the road.

How do you determine that a rider has not ridden "for a time", what constitutes "time"

A lot more thought needs to happen, I hope before anything happens.


Dont knock the "Older rider club", it may not suit your riding style or social interaction. For some the groups has great advantages on and off the road.
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Offline Streak

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 07:50:25 PM »
Duly noted Mr Brock :)

Was thinking a little off the cuff when I was typing that...
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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 08:02:50 PM »
I agree with your thought Streak, its the regulators that need to stop and think.
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Offline saaz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 08:26:20 PM »
Riders can't expect to do any less training for licences than car drivers.  While cars may be at fault in accidents, it still comes down to riders allowing for that - while you should not have to, to survive you have to.  Experience counts for much, but some training might get you there a bit quicker.

While bikes have improved greatly over the years, cars have advances a lot more in dynamic and passive safety features.  I remember years ago the campaign in Victoria to reduce the road toll below what was over 1,000 a year.  Seat belts and safety features have solved some of that problem, but generally I think the standard of driving has fallen.  If bike riders can improve what is seen as our accident statistics even when we are still vulnerable to car drivers in their safe cocoons I think we will have done a great job.  Having an older riding population with votes, political connections, in professions and with businesses and who can talk in words above 4 letters does help a lot.  But having returning riders come from cars that are a lot safer than they were, but bikes are still just as vulnerable as there were years ago, might require a bit of an attitude/experince reset.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 08:28:49 PM by saaz »
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Offline Skip

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 08:27:16 PM »
For the most part, it's about attitude. You can put a  20 year old on a bike and if he has the maturity to 'keep his head', he may just keep his head. You can put a 40 year old on a bike with years of experience, who thinks he is Gods gift to motorcyclists, and guess who I would put my money on to stay safe.
Each age group is well endowed with boof heads. I ride defensively even though I've never done a course. I would actually like to do one, but will it change ones attitude. I know my limits and I consider other road users limits as well.
Thats not to say you won't get caught up in someone else's stupidity , but you can limit your exposure to them.
I think authorities do grasp at straws and somehow, it always costs the tax payer one way or the other.
For the most part, it won't change the outcome.
My 2 bobs worth.
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Offline Whizz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »
Whilst I agree with what appears to be the general consensus, that motorcyclists, being the soft, squashy ones, need to be more aware of the car drivers and do as much defensive driving as possible, I think in this case it is just another government committee making uninformed decisions from the top of a very high ivory tower.

The concept that the average motorcyclist is going to come off worst in ANY situation with a car, regardless of who created the situation, doesn't seem to have penetrated the bureaucratic mind.

They still seem to think that it has to be the motorcyclists fault and therefore can be solved by educating the motorcyclist. They don't seem to see the other side of the coin where the 1.5 tonne missile is being driven by some-one who isn't concentrating, is talking on the telephone, or texting, or telling the kids off, or eating a hamburger, or lighting a cigarette, or doing her make-up, or trying to change the music, or re-programming the GPS, or is simply asleep. They are the drivers who need educating; we KNOW we are vulnerable, they think they are invincible!

Typical governmental knee-jerk designed to make people think that they both care and are doing something useful, and of the course there are less motorcyclists than there are drivers, so the minority gets stuck with the aftermath so their votes (or lack there of) count for less.

Pardon me if my cynicism is showing but this has all the markings of governmental make-work.
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Paul
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Offline saaz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 09:20:37 PM »
I think it shows that the general driving population is much harder politically to educate (eg how about taking the licences of 30% of the population because they only have a car because they can afford it but can't drive) than targeting a minority group.

Then again, you should not take this thinking too far as it might lead to any vehicle without the required primary (crash protection) and secondary (ABS etc) safety features to be banned, as well as enforcing proper licencing.  So motorcycles and older cars would all be off the road regardless, as well as bicycles, tractors etc.  Pedestrians should not be allowed on roads either....
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Offline Diesel

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 09:24:14 AM »
Yeah - in a dream world - it should be damned hard to get your car/mc licence so that a certain level of expertise is required to operate said vehicles.

This way, you may find yourselves surround by very sound and competent vehicle operators instead of testosterone junkies or students with 'next to pathetic' skill levels.

You wouldn't want your airline pilot to have earned his wings by just answering a few questions and showing a controller that he can taxi now would you?    :eek

Stating the obvious there, but the point remains about lifting the competency levels of operators for the betterment of the whole unit.

I've said this before...... When you go to operate a circular saw for the first time that day, you are extremely aware and vigilant because there is an apparent and imminent danger involved - but we seem to hop in our cars and (in a quite blaze manner) tootle off somewhere with no where near the same respect regarding the apparent and imminent danger.

Make it damn nigh on impossible to get your licence I say! We will all feel the benefit of the extra effort, care and research required in obtaining it when we're out on the black top.

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Offline Tackleberry

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 02:40:42 PM »
For the most part, it's about attitude. You can put a  20 year old on a bike and if he has the maturity to 'keep his head', he may just keep his head. You can put a 40 year old on a bike with years of experience, who thinks he is Gods gift to motorcyclists, and guess who I would put my money on to stay safe........Skip.
 
Skip I think you it it on the head.  After nearly 20 years on the road picking up dead bodies from crashes and investigating why they occurred I believe that the experience issue is not one that is properly represented in too many discussions. 

I have been very vocal in the last 10 years about motorcycle licence testing methods being too lenient and easy to pass after seeing some of the products in various towns throughout the State.  Before somebody jumps down my throat, I am NOT saying that every school in the State has low standards, but there are a number of known schools that are attached to various sales outlets which pass 'suspect' riders.  This to me is the first issue that needs to be corrected, because if you walk in and purchase a new bike on the basis that you need a licence.  Is that person going to walk away with no licence and no bike, just because his cornering may be a little off? 

On the other hand a person that hasn't ridden for 10-15 years, and has a mid life crisis going out to buy a new bike, when his last one was a CX550 that he courted his current wife of 20 years on, and rode to and from his apprenticeship whilst he rebuilt his Cortina in the shed.  All he remembers is being able to run around and have fun, and now he's older he is a lot better so he can still ride, without doing a refresher course.  This type of rider can't be policed too well, even if looking at new registered owners.  I would have had something to say after not owning a bike for 10 years, however having ridden more miles than a lot of riders by ducking and weaving around wide loads, and high speed responses to emergencies in city traffic, not everybody does this whilst they don't have one registered in their name.  A lot of these blokes probably got his licence something like me, in a small town riding down to the shop and getting morning tea and bringing it back to the Police Station because they had already seen me ride around numerous times on backroads, and sometimes the main street. :whistle

They still seem to think that it has to be the motorcyclists fault and therefore can be solved by educating the motorcyclist.
 
Whizz whilst a lot of crashes are not the motorcyclists 'fault', a little more attention about their surroundings could stop a greater percentage of the crashes involving motorbikes.  A majority of the fatal crashes in this State result from single vehicle crashes, and when you look at speed analysis this contributes to a lot, not all, as they go into corners and intersections too hot. 

With a majority of the crashes that involve other vehicles v bike I have found that riders expecting that cars have seen them and will follow the rules has a high incident in resulting in the crash.  Most people will see this as a redundant thought process, however I believe we need to teach some riders to take more responsibility for their own action/safety when riding.  Yes I agree that car drivers need to be educated, and enforcement action taken where appropriate, however lets look after our own safety to reduce our involvement in crashes so we return to flying under the radar, and the shift takes place to educating the drivers, and not riders. 

Playing devil's advocate for a while - riders need to make sure they are able to safely travel amongst the larger number of vehicles on the road.  The way some people ride, I look at them and express distain that they are drawing the crabs on me as a rider from their actions, when every other rider is bunched in as a possible lout because of a few bad apples.  This is human nature, and almost everybody here could think of a situation where they would have done the same thing, until they found out more info later.  I also haven't been afraid of 'educating' some riders on how their habits effect me on my own bike when I get the chance to talk with them "mano a mano"

Education can only ever be a good thing no matter what experience you have. 
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Offline Whizz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 03:33:26 PM »
Tack, I don't disagree with your thought processes, I simply think that this 'decision' is political smoke and mirrors designed to grab a bit of publicity and actually misses half the possible solution by ignoring the cage drivers who seem to delight in putting bike riders at risk by being stupid. Anyway, once the dust settles on the headline this will go the way of the dinosaur, as usual, so there isn't much point in discussing it too deeply.

Stay upright and enjoy!!  :hatwave
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Paul
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Offline alphafang

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2012, 05:10:12 PM »
Looking in from the outside on this one, can I just ask, are you guys due an election by any chance?
That's the sort of thing that always seems to come up when there's an election in the air.
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Offline Whizz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2012, 05:20:05 PM »
Mate, far from it, very recently Campbell Newman (Liberal) reduced the labor party to a shadow of it's former self with an absolutely roasting which threw Anna Bligh and her cronies out of office in a huge way.
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Paul
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Offline Tackleberry

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2012, 05:57:52 PM »
Tack, I don't disagree with your thought processes, I simply think that this 'decision' is political smoke and mirrors designed to grab a bit of publicity and actually misses half the possible solution .....
 
Mate the comment that I have entered is purely my opinion, and wasn't meant to criticize anybody's comments at all.  I agree that the knee jerk reaction falls WAY short of the mark, and this is an easy way to look like they are doing something for those that don't have a clue. 
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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 06:18:54 PM »
 :beer :thumbsup :thumbs
Cheers,
Paul
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Offline saaz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 06:22:49 PM »
From my experience with working closely with politicians, anything that looks good is preferred because arguing for things that are more complex but may address the actual problem is a lot harder to sell.  Some of the problem is due to people having the attention span of an SMS message, 10 second sound grab on TV etc as government policy is often reduce to what can fit with the attention span of voters, or perhaps more correctly the media.
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Offline Streak

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 06:34:07 PM »
Tack, I don't disagree with your thought processes, I simply think that this 'decision' is political smoke and mirrors designed to grab a bit of publicity and actually misses half the possible solution .....
 
Mate the comment that I have entered is purely my opinion, and wasn't meant to criticize anybody's comments at all.  I agree that the knee jerk reaction falls WAY short of the mark, and this is an easy way to look like they are doing something for those that don't have a clue.

Nothing like good discussion....

I agree about the knee jerk reaction, i hope that this expands and they get grass roots people to have input from both sides, so they can put something in place that properly reflects the problems that we have on the road.
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Offline Whizz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 06:37:57 PM »
Tack, mate I didn't take it as any form of criticism, simply so-one else's opinion. :thumb

Sazz, unfortunately I agree that the average joe-public has the attention span of a goldfish, which scientists reckon is about 3 seconds, or once around the goldfish bowl :||||

Streak, I agree, a good discussion all round! :think1

Cheers,
Paul
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Offline saaz

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Re: Motorbike use up, but testing times ahead
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 07:03:15 PM »
Did I mention that I don't miss having to only meet politicians near election time when they are handing out how to vote cards.   :runyay

The lack of real debates, putting up facts and having an informed discussion in public really annoys me as (most) politicians only parrot the party line.  That really stared to get to me at work, and I could see it was only going to get worse, so time to leave and get a life.

Now when is that next RTE on, who can I meet up with and should I wash the bike.... :think1 these are things I can handle  :beer
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:10:17 PM by saaz »
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