OzSTOC
No Parking Zone! => Off Topic, Off Colour, and non-motorcycle related => Topic started by: StinkyPete on July 04, 2016, 08:35:25 AM
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It's never a good idea to post something political, but I'll see how long this post lasts.
:well If government cannot be achieved just because a few independents are properly elected by the people, perhaps it's time we changed how governments are formed, or ban independents from standing and have only Labor or Liberal candidates. :fp
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It has been stated that this election the percentage of the vote received by independents is up to 20%.
This is clearly not good with regards to the ease of running a day to day government regardless of party but it is an indication of how badly disaffected the population has become with the 2 major parties.
It is a great demonstration of democracy in action that should send a message to the big 2 that they need to change the way they go about their core business of looking after the very people they seek to represent.
Barrie Cassidy is calling a 72 -72 result which will probably result in another election after a probable attempt to govern by either party unsuccessfully after a period of time with independents.
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Looking here http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDefault-20499.htm (http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDefault-20499.htm) it seems Labor is a few seats (69) in front of the Coalition (64) but with five close seats left to be called doesn't give either major party a clear run. Based on current count in the five seats it would give Labor 71 and the Coalition 67. Then we have another 6 seats which could go either way. Likely 1 for Labor and 5 for the Coalition which would give Labor 2 more seats over the Coalition.
Interesting times ahead it seems.......
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Think my simple arithmetic was a little off; I think 72 each would be more like it.
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Back at the time of federation there were no political parties. It worked well then.
Councils, comittees and boards of directors manage to work together.
Parties represent party interests, not the electorate's (voter's) interest.
As much as it might annoy them, the LNP and Labor could actually form a coalition Government with ministers from either side, but I won't hold my breath.
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Back at the time of federation there were no political parties. It worked well then.
I don't think politicians got paid before federation back then either.
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As far as my opinion of Politicians are concerned ,
I do not think all that much of them.
Why?
you ask,
Well the answer is.
A much wiser and worldly wise person than myself once asked a question,
QUESTION.
How do you know when a politician is telling a lie?
ANSWER.
Have a look to see if their lips are moving.
That is my two cents worth to this particular subject.
Cheers to all.
Winston66
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my dad was very active in one of the major parties for years . he is 86 now, still sharp and keeps up to date. he is disgusted with both sides having tried to bring some common sense and honesty into the "game". And see it all get to where it is now.
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As stated in a good film from the sixties. "What we have here is a failure to communicate". The politicians have spent too much time listening to their party advisors and not enough time listening to their voters. surely there must be middle ground that they can both live with, but they're so engaged in knocking the other off they have lost sight of what they are there for and neither can give the other credit for a good idea Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. We are in for an interesting time.
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This is just an observation and not a push for one political party..
On election night I was surfing the websites offering election results. The ABC had one of the better sites and while perusing the figures I noticed something strange.
We vote for who we want to see elected, they win their seat, the party with the most seats wins (in simple terms)
But the ABC's website also had a tab where you could go to the raw numbers of how people voted without placing them into electorates. It showed that more than a million people had voted for Labour than the LNP, however by electorate at the time the LNP were in front.
So that doesn't seem right to me, more people may vote for a political party than the other, however the lesser may win if they win more electorates ...... Go figure....
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Good point Sabie :thumbsup
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Thanks Shiney
I think our voting system needs a good look at ... the one vote one person doesn't exist. We need to look at majority voting, but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....
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There has been a lot of talk about the number of independents that will be in the Senate, with people saying it won't be good for the country. However I see it differently, the Senate is a house of review and I believe we need to have people there who will actually scrutinise the bills the government is trying to push through, not just agree and rubber stamp any dodgy legislation the government of the day dreams up. I know this may lead to legislation being held up but at least someone other than govermment stooges will get a say in what gets through.
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Well Said BB ..
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Thanks Shiney
but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....
That's why we have the system we have. The candidate with the most votes or first past the post sounds good in theory but not when most didn't vote for that person.
http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential (http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential)
3.the counting of first preference votes, also known as the primary vote, takes place first. If no candidate secures an absolute majority – 50% plus 1 – of primary votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is “eliminated” from the count.
4.the ballot papers of the eliminated candidate are examined and re-allocated amongst the remaining candidates according to the number “2”, or second preference votes.
5.if no candidate has yet secured an absolute majority of the vote, then the next candidate with the least number of primary votes is eliminated. This preference allocation continues until there is a candidate with an absolute majority. Where a second preference is expressed for a candidate who has already been eliminated, the voter’s third or subsequent preferences are used.
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:fp TRIED explaining how politics and elections work in Oz to my wife - she still doesn't understand it any better. :-[
Come to that - neither do I now !!! :|||| :|||| :||||
Last elections we had just a couple of months ago, was something like a 98% voter turn out.
The former Prime Minister's time was up, having served 10 years in office. He simply retired very gracefully.
I found that difficult to believe - but it must be true. It was on TV and in the press, on-line news and printed.
What's more there was no protest groups or weird protesters ! :thumb
Strange isn't it ? It's voluntary voting as well.
Wife's Address ??? Phu My Hung. District 7. Sai Gon. Land of motorbikes - MILLIONS of them everywhere ! :runyay
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Sabie, that's where multi-party electorates and proportional representation come into their own.
BikeBear, you're not on your own. We need the review and wish Qld still had a legislative assembly.
sent using Tapatalk
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Thanks Alan ++ ++ that's a good find.....
Thanks Shiney
but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....
That's why we have the system we have. The candidate with the most votes or first past the post sounds good in theory but not when most didn't vote for that person.
[url]http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential[/url] ([url]http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential[/url])
3.the counting of first preference votes, also known as the primary vote, takes place first. If no candidate secures an absolute majority – 50% plus 1 – of primary votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is “eliminated” from the count.
4.the ballot papers of the eliminated candidate are examined and re-allocated amongst the remaining candidates according to the number “2”, or second preference votes.
5.if no candidate has yet secured an absolute majority of the vote, then the next candidate with the least number of primary votes is eliminated. This preference allocation continues until there is a candidate with an absolute majority. Where a second preference is expressed for a candidate who has already been eliminated, the voter’s third or subsequent preferences are used.
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I once heard preferential voting described as being: "The system which ensures the person the most people find the least objectionable is elected.
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There has been a lot of talk about the number of independents that will be in the Senate, with people saying it won't be good for the country. However I see it differently, the Senate is a house of review and I believe we need to have people there who will actually scrutinise the bills the government is trying to push through, not just agree and rubber stamp any dodgy legislation the government of the day dreams up. I know this may lead to legislation being held up but at least someone other than govermment stooges will get a say in what gets through.
The main problem I have with the current system in the Senate is that most of the Minor Parties who gain representation in the Senate (and often hold the balance of power over the elected government) generally are only there on the basis of a single issue (ie Gays or Shooters or umpteen others eg Pauleen Hanson of Clive Palmer). They usually only get a very small number of primary votes. They still end up holding the elected government to ransom to push their specific issues even though only a very few people voted for them in the first place. I can't help feeling, who do they think they are?
Here endeth the Lesson Wot thuh :OldMan
:rd13
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Well put Dick and I'd have to agree. The only problem is what do we change it to?? But yes some of the parties or groups were absolutely ridiculous and what a waste of money/paper/effort..
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Here we are, two weeks later, and they STILL haven't finished counting...
Ok, so they have to count around 16 million votes, but it is not done by one person?... or is it? :grin
More than 6% of votes in the 2012 elections were informal, and the number is rising.
Does that mean we will soon have an 'Informal' party in Government?
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So that doesn't seem right to me, more people may vote for a political party than the other, however the lesser may win if they win more electorates ...... Go figure....
Looking at the AEC figures today with almost 90% of the votes counted the coalition had approx 5.1 million first preference votes, the labor party 4.6 million and the greens 1.3 million
The really disappointing figure as Kev pointed out is the informal votes. In close seats where the difference looks like being less than 100 votes in at least one seat, of the roughly 90,000 votes there are over 5,000 informal votes.
Either:-
1. voters have deliberately cast an informal vote, I hope not
2. preferential voting should be otptional
3. or we need to send Alan out to explain to people how preferential voting works
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I believe that voters are sick of the two major parties, their "ownership" of the political system, and how they band together to discredit political threats from minor parties. This could have been a contributor to a deliberate high informal vote.
However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.
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.... voters have deliberately cast an informal vote, I hope not ....
Sadly, if going by some earlier comments in this thread, this not the case.
I believe that voters are sick of the two major parties, their "ownership" of the political system, and how they band together to discredit political threats from minor parties. This could have been a contributor to a deliberate high informal vote......
This is how the Democrats and The Greens started, and whilst one did offer a fresh face, steadying influence, watch dog role "keep the bastards honest", and the other does offer an alternative and a more sustained role, can anyone (with any sense) really want them running our Country.
.... However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.
Hear! Hear!
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However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.
Could not agree more!
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:dred11
I have NO FAITH in the INTEGRITY of the 2016 election. There were people marked off the roll as having voting who could cast a vote because of insufficient numbers of ballot papers. There were also votes found in the wrong piles, postal votes being returned to Liberal HQ, elderly people in homes not able to vote because of defunding mobile polling booth, reports of candidates stealing party posters and on and on... I don't know who was in charge of the ballot security but with the corruption in Liberal party, them accepting donations from PAEDOPHILE protection religious cults ( the Brethren) etc I Parakeelia, Free Enterprise Foundation, I would like to see this election NULLIFIED and a new election held, WITHOUT political ads as we can all remember the 8 wks of ads.. and on 1 of the forms a simple question,, 'Do you want equality? YES?NO to save $160m plus on the un-binding plebiscite. The AEC should ensure the whole process is open, honest and held with integrity. that's my 2 cents worth.
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Election is over Turnbull wins but diabetes loose...
http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/diabetics-fear-for-health-after-government-removes-blood-sugar-test-subsidy-20160716-gq75vf.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/diabetics-fear-for-health-after-government-removes-blood-sugar-test-subsidy-20160716-gq75vf.html)
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Just another reason why I don't trust Pollies... ANY Pollies.
Further proof that they are completely out of touch with the general public. This means that a Pensioner with type 2 diabetes will now have to pay around $700 per year for strips ... around 1 fortnightly benefit payment per year for test strips... or the difference in buying 5 weeks minimal groceries per year... or NOT!
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So why is it that the politicians and their parties always want to hit the most vulnerable people in our community.
The always seem to target:
The poorest
The sickest
The most vulnerable
Those who work the hardest
Those with the most to loose
Those without a voice
Those without representation
Those out of anyone who have the least.
Why are they the first to suffer at the hands of politicians? Why?
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So why is it that the politicians and their parties always want to hit the most vulnerable people in our community.
The always seem to target:
The poorest
The sickest
The most vulnerable
Those who work the hardest
Those with the most to loose
Those without a voice
Those without representation
Those out of anyone who have the least.
Why are they the first to suffer at the hands of politicians? Why?
Quite simply, many are the groups that cost governments the most, or can be whacked for the most tax.
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However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.
Standing in line at the election I was having this conversation with a bloke who was telling everyone he was voting informal as he did not like anyone.
I had this long discussion with him about the fact that we are priviligedged to be able to vote and if he did not cast a vote he had no right whatsoever to complain about what was being done.
his argument was " I don't like any of them"
my response was " well if you don't like them then you have the right , opportunity and possibly the responsibility to run for election yourself".
further discussions took place and I must say this was one time that my argument about 'if you don't vote you have no right to complain' actually worked.
He went out and grabbed a few how to vote cards and apparently voted.
not sure if it was a well thought out casting of his vote but at least he did vote.
he may have been one of the deciding factors in Herbert. which as you may or may not know was won by only 8 votes with an automatic recount underway ...... so we in Herbert will not know who the winner is for at least another two weeks.
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It matters not who gets the most votes... we are still gonna be screwed
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It matters not who gets the most votes... we are still gonna be screwed
Isn't that ALWAYS the way it goes with all of them ??? :OldMan
Flip
:wht11
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++ yup!