Post by: johnnyYTED on August 25, 2016, 07:39:49 PM
this week I received a "summons to Appear" in the Ceduna MagiSTrates Court. those who went to Perth you would recall I was STopped by SAPOL at Yalata, and told by Mr Plod I was travelling at 131kph, to which I said politely CRAP!
So after phoning SAPOL and finding out how to lodge an application interstate, for Freedom of Information. I am requeSTing 10 tickets before and after my ticket to see if they have all been written at the same speed as mine.
I have also emailed the courts to ask for an adjournment till the end of Oct or early November AND requeSTed a change to the MagiSTrates Courts at Christies Beach in Adelaide.
I am preparing as much as I can to defend myself in this court appearance. I will keep you up to date as things happens.
Post by: Sicman on August 25, 2016, 08:23:16 PM
Post by: richo on August 25, 2016, 08:32:14 PM
:grin
Post by: Shiney on August 25, 2016, 08:51:24 PM
Post by: Brock on August 25, 2016, 09:56:02 PM
Post by: Sicman on August 25, 2016, 10:02:58 PM
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 25, 2016, 11:21:59 PM
Do you have any proof of the speed you were doing at the time....Brock I don't have proof, but I have Photo's taken at Penong then the next one at Yalata and they have geo tagging time date and location and it shows I took 30 mins longer than google says it should have. I will also explain that in 8 yrs on STranger I have never received a ticket. I'll just hope I am able to sway the magistrate and hopefully the other info I'm seeking under FOI will also discredit the Mr Plod.
Post by: Sabie on August 25, 2016, 11:34:14 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Wild Rose on August 25, 2016, 11:39:13 PM
Just let them know that you are from OzSTOC and I'm sure that they will let you off :grin
Post by: Langers on August 25, 2016, 11:51:36 PM
On these bikes, in that environment, even if you were doing 131kph, which you weren't, it is not a danger to anyone - just another example of the fact we live in a Nanny State.
Good luck and I hope the truth comes out.
Cheers ... Mark
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 26, 2016, 09:48:03 AM
Not sure if this is urban myth or whatever, but I assume that whatever the device is that clocked your speed needs to be calibrated on a regular basis - if this is the case you might want to ask for the calibration records for the particular device - you never know, it might have been overdue and hence was reading inaccurately.Mark , part of my defense will be that the ticket was NOT filled out completely, The two boxes on the ticket 1 for the radar/LIDAR number and 2 the date of last calibration were left empty. I wrote to the SAPOL Expiation Office, and they replied with the info and a STatement that the officer said that 'I' said "yeah mate I was doing 130". When I read that it infuriated me. I decided then and there that I will fight this to the end... Hopefully I am able to discredit this KunSTable's claim successfully. If he has been writing tickets before and after mine at 131 kph I will claim he hasn't cleared the unit and is 'Revenue raising or QUOTA filling. I have always claimed my speed when they put on their lights I read on my 2 k increment ex police speedo was 120. I will also argue that the extra turbulence at 130 would have alerted me to my speed.
On these bikes, in that environment, even if you were doing 131kph, which you weren't, it is not a danger to anyone - just another example of the fact we live in a Nanny State.
Good luck and I hope the truth comes out.
Cheers ... Mark
Post by: Brian on August 26, 2016, 01:06:15 PM
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 26, 2016, 01:20:38 PM
I wonder if the law enforcement officer has video evidence as they have introduced body cams to many of the hwy ptrl unitsBrian I asked the second officer if they had video and voice recording like their HWP buddies and other STates, to which he replied "NO"
further more I was unable to get my own video of the event as I had ridden thru a STorm and my cam had got very wet.. they weren't a HWP unit, they were the local Indigenous cops from Yalata.
Post by: Marcus on August 26, 2016, 01:24:53 PM
Post by: richo on August 26, 2016, 07:45:35 PM
Post by: Langers on August 26, 2016, 11:46:50 PM
Not sure if this is urban myth or whatever, but I assume that whatever the device is that clocked your speed needs to be calibrated on a regular basis - if this is the case you might want to ask for the calibration records for the particular device - you never know, it might have been overdue and hence was reading inaccurately.Mark , part of my defense will be that the ticket was NOT filled out completely, The two boxes on the ticket 1 for the radar/LIDAR number and 2 the date of last calibration were left empty. I wrote to the SAPOL Expiation Office, and they replied with the info and a STatement that the officer said that 'I' said "yeah mate I was doing 130". When I read that it infuriated me. I decided then and there that I will fight this to the end... Hopefully I am able to discredit this KunSTable's claim successfully. If he has been writing tickets before and after mine at 131 kph I will claim he hasn't cleared the unit and is 'Revenue raising or QUOTA filling. I have always claimed my speed when they put on their lights I read on my 2 k increment ex police speedo was 120. I will also argue that the extra turbulence at 130 would have alerted me to my speed.
On these bikes, in that environment, even if you were doing 131kph, which you weren't, it is not a danger to anyone - just another example of the fact we live in a Nanny State.
Good luck and I hope the truth comes out.
Cheers ... Mark
Getting the matter heard at Christies could make it interesting, as you will be disputing the officers statement regarding your alleged admission, the local officer, I would assume, will be required to make the trip from Yalata to be present to give evidence and go under cross examination and he will be well outside his comfort zone. I'm guessing the 131 gets you into fairly expensive territory in SA. If you intend to represent yourself it might be worthwhile engaging a solicitor unless you are experienced in dealing with Court matters. Magistrates are usually pretty fair with people representing themselves, but I've seen too many make a hash of it to recommend it to anyone. Apologies if stating the obvious. And good luck.
Cheers ... Mark
Post by: Lionel on August 27, 2016, 12:27:41 AM
The prosecutor will probably be an experienced senior constable or sergeant who will be used to most of the tricks pulled in a Magistrates Court.
My son decided to go before the Beak over a traffic infringement. He had legal representation. He did that not to avoid being found guilty and fined but to avoid having any more demerit points added to his existing total. At the time there was no formal link between the Magistrates Court (in Canberra) and the RTA. So he coped a fine but avoided losing his licence.
A local solicitor will know the "local" court scene.
However, if you're not in danger of losing your licence by having the matter treated administratively you would save money by simply paying the fine. You can also claim that you need time to pay.
Red Herring. SA's legal system seems to vary from the rest of the country. I believe that SA is the only state that has not produced a single High Court judge (7 on the bench at any one time) in the 115 year history of the Court. I could be wrong wrt to recent times as I have lost touch with such matters.
Post by: Gadget on August 27, 2016, 06:09:10 AM
sent using Tapatalk
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 27, 2016, 12:49:44 PM
I will be going into court blind as such, I cannot afford legal rep. and I'm not sure about Legal Aid, so I can only go into court and hope that I plead my case well. I'm am hoping that this PLOD has written tickets before and after mine with the same speed and if so, I will argue that he has used a previous reading to further book others, and claim he is meeting quota's.
Lionel I didn't know they could add demerit points above the penalty, for an unsuccessful court appearance. I will certainly be asking for time to pay, and only offer $10.00 per fortnight MAX. I can only hope that if I lose the Judge dosent increase the fine and points too much.
I was told by the Court clerk that my application for an adjournment wont be dealt with until the set court date also with the request for it to be heard in Adelaide. If the judge decides NOT to grant the adjournment and relocation, I wonder if he will make a decision in my absence and impose a high penalty,
I know I wasn't travelling at the claimed 131kph on that day in Yalata, and will admit as I have said before to the 120 my speedo read. I can only state my case in the hope that there is some 'Integrity' left in the justice system of SA, and that everything I can gather, including details on tickets before and after mine helps my case and the Judge on the day has enough doubt in Mr PLODs claim. If not I will accept the penalty imposed, and NEVER AGAIN enter or spend 1 cent within SA.
I was planning to buy my first home in SA when finally an insurance claim I have is settled but the outcome of this matter will decide whether that happens.
Post by: Down Under on August 27, 2016, 06:02:25 PM
In my experience you'll be wasting your time and the Court's time defending your own speeding matter. You'll get a much better outcome if you enter a guilty plea with an explanation. You'll get good free legal advice if you visit your local Court House and speak with the Chamber Magistrate or their representative.
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 27, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
Down Under, I intend to plead guilty to 120 as I STated in my first letter to the Expiation Office, and I wrote that in the 1ST contact letter. I want to argue the speed of 131. Thanks for the advice about talking to the Chamber MagiSTrate, hopefully they can give me some good advice. I am applying under FOI for the tickets written before and after just to make sure that Mr PLOD wasn't doing the wrong thing.
In my experience you'll be wasting your time and the Court's time defending your own speeding matter. You'll get a much better outcome if you enter a guilty plea with an explanation. You'll get good free legal advice if you visit your local Court House and speak with the Chamber Magistrate or their representative.
Post by: gaz on August 29, 2016, 05:51:55 PM
Post by: spanner on August 30, 2016, 03:48:21 PM
it really sucks but .....
Any way .... ill be sitting here eat my :popcorn and havinf a few :beer with interestst to see the result.
Post by: johnnyYTED on August 30, 2016, 04:16:23 PM
well the ball is rolling in my challenge to this ticket. I have juST been to Narellan Police STation in NSW to have my ID witness and the form signed and STamped by a Police Witness as per inSTruction by SAPOL FOI office. I have sent the forms by regiSTered poST and will await a reply, within the 28 days.
Post by: Oldie on August 30, 2016, 04:21:44 PM
Post by: Brookester on September 02, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-02/speeding-fine-challenges-likely-after-landmark-sa-ruling-lawyer/7807582 (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-02/speeding-fine-challenges-likely-after-landmark-sa-ruling-lawyer/7807582)
Post by: Biggles on September 02, 2016, 09:41:03 AM
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 02, 2016, 09:55:27 AM
May not apply to you but interesting just the same...
[url]http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-02/speeding-fine-challenges-likely-after-landmark-sa-ruling-lawyer/7807582[/url] ([url]http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-02/speeding-fine-challenges-likely-after-landmark-sa-ruling-lawyer/7807582[/url])
Thanks for that link Brookester, I will take a print out with me to court and see if I can use it, I checked out when the article was written and was glad to see its today. not something that is a few years ago and something they can say they have fixed and isn't an issue now.
I think its relevant to me as I have admitted to 'speeding' at 120 kph and my argument is over mr PLODs claim of 131 and his claim I said 'yeah mate sorry I was doing 130'.
Biggles I am trying to think of how to question them on how the daily calibration at Yalata is carried out... Any suggeSTions on wording such?.. I don't want my lack of any high school education to hinder me by asking queSTions worded wrong.
Post by: Biggles on September 02, 2016, 03:27:09 PM
"Can you please describe for me Sir, the process you use every day to test the radar speed detector before using it to measure the speed of vehicles?"
"Are you satisfied that testing complies with the Australian testing standards?"
Post by: StinkyPete on September 02, 2016, 03:53:05 PM
A possible question:
"Can you please describe for me Sir, the process you use every day to test the radar speed detector before using it to measure the speed of vehicles?"
"Are you satisfied that testing complies with the Australian testing standards?"
"How does that comply with the Australian testing standards?" might be a better question, which cannot be answered with a Yes or No.
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 02, 2016, 07:29:07 PM
Natman, I did ask for the 5 tickets before and after mine and stated I understand that any personal info ie name address lic rego details will be redacted from these tickets. I had spoken with someone from SAPOL FOI office and the guy said he didn't know of any other request for previous tickets before, which I thought was odd because there was someone contesting a ticket and got the tickets and proved the officer had written consecutive tickets all at the same speed. I remember reading the news article and they were all at 131 kph.
I could use any help to assist me in my defence like How I should go interrogating the officer etc as I am a novice at this.
Post by: Natman on September 02, 2016, 08:19:04 PM
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 02, 2016, 09:38:49 PM
mobile radar, and they said they detected me from a long way off, given that the road is long undulating (?) terrain I don't know what distance and wether 'line of sight is needed. I remember riding over the top of a ridge and seeing light reflexion on the horizon a LONG way ahead. I was coming up to the top of the next ridge or maybe the 2nd and the Toyota lock up paddy wagon came over the top and immediately put on the disco lights and I looked at my speed @ 120kph and pulled over. the Expiation letter that they replied to my 1st letter to them has given me the radar serial nimber and the calibration date of 17 Feb 2016 ,, 21 days prior to the date I rode thru.
Post by: Shiney on September 02, 2016, 10:33:47 PM
http://youtu.be/W4anxZR1Sgs (http://youtu.be/W4anxZR1Sgs)
https://youtu.be/W4anxZR1Sgs (https://youtu.be/W4anxZR1Sgs)
http://youtu.be/s_u5ihEx70A (http://youtu.be/s_u5ihEx70A)
https://youtu.be/s_u5ihEx70A (https://youtu.be/s_u5ihEx70A)
Maybe that's not the best advice :crazy
But I do recommend watching the movie Gettin' Square, it's a cracker :grin
All the best in court mate :hatwave
Post by: Kev Murphy on September 04, 2016, 04:15:57 AM
Will have to remedy that soon :grin
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 04, 2016, 09:55:41 AM
Shiney I wasn't born in 'Minto' mate. but its why I have been asking for any help to NOT appear as I did.
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 21, 2016, 05:49:35 PM
thought I'd let those wondering how things are going here.
I sent off the FOI application and received a reply on Monday 3weeks after they got it. They want my to clarify what I want because my request didn't comply with the act. So after researching and READING the act and the sections they say I didn't comply with I replied by email with my carefully worded response and phoned them to check it complied with the act and subsections. The FOI person said yes it complies, but made a comment that the Expiation office my still not comply saying under section 18(1) "An agency may refuse to deal with an appl...... would, if carried out, substantially and unreasonably divert the agency's resources.....". I think this is an excuse to not provide info that dosent support an appellant (me) .
So I will await the response and see if they give me the info requested.
I in my reply asked for the info in 2 ways so they can be clear of what I request.
I request the five Expiation notices written before and after by the same officer ID 072656 (name unknown) that issued G7681125A on 8/3/2016. ( he signed it with a squiggle that looks like an & or an 8 )
I request the five Expiation notices written from data collected from RADAR Unit serial number XE26590 before and after Expiation notice numbered G7681125A on 8/3/2016 in and around Yalata SA.
I in writing this now think I should have added in "I understand that any personal Identifiable info will be REDACTED", but I hope they carry that part from my original application, as I stated it then.
I also was told that Expiation notices are not in sequential order. So does that mean they just have a box full and grab a bunch? One would have thought they would be in a book form and numbered sequentially. Who'd of thought.. that would be easier to track and record them I think..
So I am now putting in another request , this time for diary notes from BOTH the officer unknown by name AND the Corroborating officer I talked with whilst SGT PLOD was writing the Expiation Notice.
I'll await the decision.
Please give me your thoughts on the above, even if you think I'm wrong.
Post by: Langers on September 21, 2016, 10:01:36 PM
Good luck, cheers Mark
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 21, 2016, 10:16:31 PM
Thanks for explaining that to me Mark. I reckon it must be hard trying to keep track of it all .. Once I get the local Narellan Police to witness my ID again I will be putting in another FOI application and I like the suggestion about getting tickets written by the corroborating officer incase they take turns in writing them to deceive requests like mine.. Not saying they do do that! Of course I'd like to think there is integrity in all who enforce the laws that we abide by... (snikker snikker) although I admit to being absent minded and 10 kph above the posted limit on that long arduous journey across the paddock. 8)
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 23, 2016, 08:31:51 PM
Today I received this email
Good afternoon Mr Whitehead,
We apologise for the delay in response.
His Honour has considered your request but has not made any orders as his will not be the Magistrate hearing the matter in Ceduna on 26 September 2016.
His Honour has granted you leave to appear via telephone on 26 September 2016 where the presiding Magistrate will consider your application and make a determination.
As your hearing is at 11.30 am please have your phone on and available between 11.30am and 12.30pm on this day.
Please supply a telephone number to the court as soon as possible.
Kind Regards,
Chantel Minopoulos
Clerk to Magistrate Alexandrides
Elizabeth Magistrates Court | 15 Frobisher Road, Elizabeth, SA 5112
Ph: 8207 9569 | Fax: 8207 9231 | DX: 50103
so monday I will know if I have been granted an adjournment and venue change. Maybe the Magistrate will hear the case and hopefully find in my favour saving both time and $$$ for me travelling back to SA, or he will just grant an adjournment to hear the case at a later date so I can state my case. OR he will do neither and find against me,, or better still dismiss the case completely.. o:) Monday will tell.
Post by: Biggles on September 23, 2016, 08:47:08 PM
Also sounds like your destiny is in the hands of the Greeks judging by the signatories! :eek
Post by: Shiney on September 23, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 26, 2016, 02:30:56 PM
Today I appeared by telephone to the Magistrates Court in Ceduna SA.
I was asked by the Magistrate my side of what happened, and after hearing what I said, the presiding officer said to the court he would accept a guilty plea of speeding at 121kph in a posted 110kph zone. The speed Mr Whitehead had admitted to in correspondence relating to the expiation notice.
It was explained by the Magistrate to me and I was asked what I would like to do. I plead guilty to a speed of 121 in a 110kph zone, then I was asked if I had anything further to say. I said that I have owned my motorcycle for 8 plus years and this was the very first speeding ticket I have been issued in over 150,000k's of travelling.I also added that I wasn't consciously speeding and my speed had slightly increased due to my inattention.I also told the court that I have an application to SAPOL under FOI for the tickets prior and after mine and had not at this point received anything more other than a request to clarify my request. The magistrate asked the officer if he had anything to say about my response.He answered No.
The Magistrate s accepted my guilty plea and told me He would record NO CONVICTION, He then asked the presiding officer if he accepted the finding. :law The officer replied, Your Honor may I add the original fine imposed was $789 and 5 points demerit and that you (the Magistrate) take that into consideration. The Mag.. then asked me for further information regarding my health and income, to which I gave him the relevant info.the Magistrate then proceeded by saying " I find you John Whitehead guilty by explanation to speeding at 120 kph and make NO Conviction Recorded. I fine you $200 for the offence and a further $160 court establishment fee and $100 for... 'something else added..' I cant remember exactly what' and you would also receive the demerit points accordingly for the charge".
He then told me I will receive in writing a notice of fine and details and methods in which I can pay.
:well I am glad I took the stance I did in contesting the 'alleged speed' and think I was successful in my case. I upheld my integrity ;-* and received an outcome I am happy with. ++ :fp I never denied I was above the limit, I only every questioned the integrity of the radar unit and :cop its operator. I will happily now pay the expiation fine imposed and put this all behind me.
STranger wont be happy , I think he would love to have gone on another adventure more than halfway across the paddock. I think I will use the $$ saved in standing up for myself and go on another long ride, being more aware of my speed at all times.
MATTER CLOSED.
Post by: StinkyPete on September 26, 2016, 03:03:42 PM
Post by: Wild Rose on September 26, 2016, 03:08:35 PM
Post by: Sicman on September 26, 2016, 03:13:25 PM
I once contested a false accusation by a highway officer who had tagged us as an old gold coloured commodore doing 131 even though we were clearly a bright new red commodore, not speeding :cuss. We had seen the gold car go flying past towing a trailer. The Police footage backed our version of events in a double demerit period :cop.
It cost me $1800 to contest it and the case was withdrawn before it hit court the second time :thumbs
Sometimes it costs money to stand up for yourself :wink1
Post by: Brian on September 26, 2016, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: Shiney on September 26, 2016, 04:48:27 PM
It's awesome to hear that the judge found in your favor :thumbsup
Thanks for keeping us updated :hatwave
Cheers
Shiney
Post by: richo on September 26, 2016, 06:29:34 PM
Post by: Kev Murphy on September 26, 2016, 06:51:33 PM
Well done.
Post by: Biggles on September 26, 2016, 08:30:24 PM
It's a good thing you did the work yourself because, as Sicman indicated, it can cost a lot more than the fine to be exonerated even when you are completely innocent.
Post by: johnnyYTED on September 26, 2016, 09:22:37 PM
Biggles I never claimed to be completely 'innocent' I'm happy to admit my wrongdoings :spank and pay the consequence of my actions. :grin
Pleased to hear the matter was settled sensibly by the Magistrate. I hope the reduction in fine means a big reduction in the demerit points.
It's a good thing you did the work yourself because, as Sicman indicated, it can cost a lot more than the fine to be exonerated even when you are completely innocent.
Post by: Brock on September 26, 2016, 09:26:14 PM
Quote
I never claimed to be completely 'innocent'
Well you were innocent as regards the 130Ks charge
Post by: Lionel on September 26, 2016, 11:41:39 PM
I don't know your financial situation but I'd be requesting that you be allowed to pay the fine and costs at the rate of $10 a fortnight out of your salary/pension/savings, whatever.
Post by: Biggles on September 27, 2016, 09:19:00 AM
:dred11
Biggles I never claimed to be completely 'innocent' I'm happy to admit my wrongdoings :spank and pay the consequence of my actions. :grin
No, I was referring to Sicman's case where they nailed the wrong car and driver.
I know you're challenging the wrong charge, admitting to the lesser crime. 8)
Post by: rally on November 10, 2016, 04:00:42 PM
CONGRATULATIONS JOHNNY, well done by perseverance you have worn them down... Something not regularly done.
Fantastic outcome.
Rally