OzSTOC
Bikes Other than ST 11/1300 => Other Bike Discussions => Topic started by: StinkyPete on July 14, 2024, 08:14:29 AM
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With my Beemer now sold :'( I'm on a quest to identify a smaller lighter bike to scratch my motorcycling itch. "Ghost" was almost a perfect big tourer, was what the ST1300 could have been, and I will certainly miss the long interstate rides. However the weight got too much for me in close manoeuvring and in heavy traffic, and some limiting aches and pains have caught up with me, making the long rides challenging or impossible. Getting older is certainly not for the feint of heart.
I do have something in mind, but thought I'd throw the discussion open to see what suggestions pop up in case I missed something, so here's my specs.....
* Not much more than 200kg
* Somewhere reasonable for a pillion to sit from time to time
* Not too tall in the pillion seat, which makes mounting the bike difficult
* The ability to fit some nice soft panniers to carry a few bits and bobs
* I'm not too fussed about fuel range any more
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What about something like this: https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/speed-400/speed-400-2024 (https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/speed-400/speed-400-2024)
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Not much more than 200kg....
Even the Versys 650 is 218kgs, 1000cc is 255kgs
Thought about 400cc to 650cc step through? Heaps of storage and good for pillions?
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There's this: https://royalenfield.com.au/model/interceptor-650/ (https://royalenfield.com.au/model/interceptor-650/) :think1
Just a touch over 200kgs...
or, if you want a bit more go, there's this one: https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/bonneville-speed-twin-900/speed-twin-900-2023 (https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/bonneville-speed-twin-900/speed-twin-900-2023)
216kgs wet...
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Not much more than 200kg....
Even the Versys 650 is 218kgs, 1000cc is 255kgs
Thought about 400cc to 650cc step through? Heaps of storage and good for pillions?
Cheers. I've been asked a few times what mine weighs and never been albe to answer.
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Thought about 400cc to 650cc step through? Heaps of storage and good for pillions?
No... :fp
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So many options, so little money (for some of us), there just ain't enough time left (for many of us), to acquire or even ride the range of what's available, even within the parameters provided.
The thought of downsizing has crossed many a mind, some have acted, some are in the process, I dismissed it for now, but alas, will need to address this matter, probably sooner than later.
With that in mind I recall the little Honda VT250 Magna I purchased during early COVID at a garage sale. Went to look at a stretcher tent (which I purchased), got chatting to the guy, talked about motorcycles, would you be interested in this? as he whipped the cover of a little Honda (in a few pieces, but obviously all there).
Deal done, trailered home, assembled, carby kit fitted, plenty of spit, polish and elbow grease, RWC'd, re-registered and a few rides.
What a ball of fun. Zipping to and from the shops, a ride with some mates - coulda, shoulda, woulda kept it, but alas that would have been a change of plans, taken up space in the garage needed for next COVID project. Advertised on FB Market place at 3:30pm, sold by 6:00pm - coulda, shoulda asked more.
When my time comes, one of these will be on my list.
(https://i.ibb.co/P1g7QX4/IMG-2274.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JkGcRXK/IMG-2281.jpg)
Best of all, it's a Honda, and it's black.
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I asked myself the same question after my ST1100 burnt. Went with a CF Moto 650TK (200Kg) until I crashed it and now ride a Honda FT500 single (164Kg). If I were to buy a new bike I would be looking to a Royal Enfield scram 450 or Honda GB350. Both have low seat height and low weight and will fit your other requirements ok.
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What about something like this: https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/speed-400/speed-400-2024 (https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/classic/speed-400/speed-400-2024)
Here's a review of the Speed 400 by TheMissendenFlyer... https://youtu.be/VepGfdWVzx4?si=oPU_AzRs4VQdUGCn (https://youtu.be/VepGfdWVzx4?si=oPU_AzRs4VQdUGCn)
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Hi Pete,
I can highly recommend a Can-am spyder.
Still comfortable for long rides, and all the power of the 1300 (plus some)
Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
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No worries about weight with one of these and great fun to ride:-
https://www.imz-ural.com.au/new-gear-up (https://www.imz-ural.com.au/new-gear-up)
or weight util the new version of this:-
https://changjiang-australia.com/ (https://changjiang-australia.com/)
which will have leading link front forks
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With the Urals dry weight of 331kg (I'm presuming that would be with the side car) and a sticker price of $34,350, I reckon I'd go the Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S with a dry weight of 212kg and current discounted price at $29,890 and have a whole lot more fun (for as long as I kept my licence).
With the Chinese jobbie, I note it's weight is 365kg so I think we may be getting away from Pete's quest for a smaller, lighter bike (mind you the Guzzi fits the bill nicely :beer)
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They are both sidecars so they don't need to be held up so as I said weight isn't a problem. Mind you they do take a little effort if you want to keep them on 2 wheels, see photo. That is me learning to ride a Ural, I could do a figure of 8 on two wheels.
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I must admit that an Outfit was not something that I had considered. Having a reverse gear would be good for getting in and out of my shed, but the width may present a difficulty getting past vehicles in my narrow driveway. The same challenge would apply for a Can-Am Spyder. Thanks for the suggestions which give me more to think about. :thumbsup
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What about something like this: https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2015-honda-cb400-abs/OAG-AD-23447759/?Cr=8 (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2015-honda-cb400-abs/OAG-AD-23447759/?Cr=8)
I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the CB400 and it looks like a "real" bike... :popcorn
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Thanks Rusty. The CB400 is certainly on my short list.
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I really like that CB400, it's just a shame I don't have a spare $8,790 and space in my garage... :'(
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Pete, you can checkout the Urals performance here:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDG-ejHj2QY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDG-ejHj2QY) :grin
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We have a Ural shop not far from me. I think they even have the drive for the chair setup for the left side
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Yes, the two wheel drive model is the "Gear Up" Has been around for a long time for the chair on the righthand side. Gear Up model for the chair on the lefthand side was only released about a year ago.
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Is the engine still based on the 83 year old M72 ex BMW engine?
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Is the engine still based on the 83 year old M72 ex BMW engine?
Yes, just like the BMW and like the BMW with lots of upgrades.
Here are the recent ones for the Ural
https://www.imz-ural.com.au/whats-new (https://www.imz-ural.com.au/whats-new)
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Back in about the 1970s, an old work colleague had one without the side car. At that time they were called "Cossacks".
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Will we see you in Border Village?
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Will we see you in Border Village?
No, but we are heading away with the new caravan for a few weeks.
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Have you considered the new Yamaha Tracer 7 ? Full Power model now available. Just under 200kg wet.
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The Triumph Tiger Sport 660 also looks good on paper.
https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/adventure/tiger-sport-660/tiger-sport-660 (https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com.au/motorcycles/adventure/tiger-sport-660/tiger-sport-660)
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More to consider, but I'd never get the bride on the back of the Tracer 7 or the Tiger. I did have a sit Tracer7.
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More to consider, but I'd never get the bride on the back of the Tracer 7 or the Tiger. I did have a sit Tracer7.
I reckon that will be the challenge on any sub 200kg bike Pete.
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This is what has worked it's way to the top of my list, but I haven't yet organized a test ride. Thoughts??
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2024/07/31/c877ca383519646b5a1d0c18b2b18ed0.jpg)
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I have seen a few in Thailand, I think they are making them there under licence..They look OK
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If you're after a pretty much bare bones motorcycle, then they look the goods! :thumbs
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I had a test ride on one from the local dealer and loved it. Very responsive to the controls, nice comfy seating position, liked the noise from the aftermarket mufflers, all round a good thing but ride it yourself to see.
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
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If I was happy to settle for a naked, I would 100% buy a Kawasaki Z900RS. I test rode one twice when I was looking at a replacement for the ST, but I thought I couldn't live without a screen at this stage. Having said that, I just loved that bike. Apart from nil weather protection. 2 years on, I am enjoying the BMW R1200RS apart from the acute knee position. And the gearbox. It is 236kg, but, carries it's low as you would appreciate. Enjoy the journey of research Pete.
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Speaking of Kawasaki...
There's always the Z650RS!
It's lighter than the Royal Enfield at just 186kg and you're getting Jap Bike reliability... :grin
Oh, and it also has a few more ponies & more torque... :thumbs
(https://i.ibb.co/kS4kjC7/Kawasaki-Z650-RS.png)
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Speaking of Kawasaki...
There's always the Z650RS!
It's lighter than the Royal Enfield at just 186kg and you're getting Jap Bike reliability... :grin
Oh, and it also has a few more ponies & more torque... :thumbs
Thanks Rusty. That bike popped up on my radar yesterday, and is a real possibility.
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
No he wouldn't... :grin
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
No he wouldn't... :grin
I looked at the Niken in Toowoomba and did not like them
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
No he wouldn't... :grin
:crackup :crackup :crackup :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
No he wouldn't... :grin
Pity, there's one at Pitman's in Adelaide.
https://www.stock.pitmans.com.au/used-bikes/for-sale/yamaha/mxt850d-niken-gt/2019/mxt/3025615 (https://www.stock.pitmans.com.au/used-bikes/for-sale/yamaha/mxt850d-niken-gt/2019/mxt/3025615)
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I saw a Niken at Midland Kawasaki today and thought Pete would love one of those. :p
No he wouldn't... :grin
Pity, there's one at Pitman's in Adelaide.
https://www.stock.pitmans.com.au/used-bikes/for-sale/yamaha/mxt850d-niken-gt/2019/mxt/3025615 (https://www.stock.pitmans.com.au/used-bikes/for-sale/yamaha/mxt850d-niken-gt/2019/mxt/3025615)
Now that is one ugly trike! And I thought Can-ams were bad...
I would worry about hitting a pothole with only one of those front wheels at speed...
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I would worry about hitting a pothole with only one of those front wheels at speed...
It doesn't affect the other wheel as they are independent so all's good and remember, as you've got twice the grip it's gonna feel way more planted than a conventional motorcycle.
As for Can-ams, they may look a bit odd but it makes way more sense to have 2 wheels at the front compared to a "conventional" trike for the same reasons as the Niken.
It's funny how we ridicule these sorts of bikes yet we mostly accept sidecars which, when you think about it, is crazy as riding one requires a completely different approach to steering depending on whether you want to go left or right... :crazy
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It doesn't affect the other wheel as they are independent so all's good and remember, as you've got twice the grip it's gonna feel way more planted than a conventional motorcycle.
I was thinking more of the impact causing the wheels to try to go in two different directions, or worse.
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These bikes have been a feature of the last few Tour de France broadcasts. They looked quite stable.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/yamaha/niken/2018/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/yamaha/niken/2018/)
The single biggest impediment is the lack of locking upright when coming to a stop.
WRT canam spyders, be prepared to take a test ride for at least a couple of hours before becoming comfortable on it.
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Here's a review of the Niken GT from 2023... https://www.rideapart.com/reviews/669751/2023-yamaha-niken-gt-review/ (https://www.rideapart.com/reviews/669751/2023-yamaha-niken-gt-review/)
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Is there a special emoji for a thread hijack? :Stirpot
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Is there a special emoji for a thread hijack? :Stirpot
Given that the Yamaha Niken is around 260kg and Pete has already ruled it out, yes, this thread is in danger of hijack. Apologies 😰
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Is there a special emoji for a thread hijack? :Stirpot
:hijacked
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The Honda NT1100 is a great bike at 238kg DTC which mine is is heavier, cruise & heated grips standard but I had to purchase panniers & top box
Seat Height is 820mm which I am getting modified at the moment as I am not happy with the standard seat but you can get a comfort seat
But unfortunately it is chain driven
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There is an alternative to a lighter bike:
https://www.facebook.com/share/CdMPyQYufKak4SpM/ (https://www.facebook.com/share/CdMPyQYufKak4SpM/)
A gift at $11,000!!
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Just making one of my rare visits to the Forum and spotted the thread on your quest to find a lighter touring bike. You have probably moved on and have your new mount by now but I thought I would throw my experience into the mix just for the heck of it.
I reached your position in 2017 and eventually settled on a 2015 Yamaha MT09 Tracer (c/w OEM panniers)
It took me a little while to get used to it after stepping down from the silky smooth ST1300 but soon came to love this firey little machine. I have now done over 60,000 mostly touring k’s on her over the past 7 years. It pretty well ticks all your boxes. I can definitely credit this little bike with keeping me touring on into my dotage (turned 80 this year) and am planning to celebrate with a 4000k x 4 day run in a couple of weeks.
Here endeth the lesson
Cheers
DickB aka Yewie
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Nice to hear from you Dick. I haven't made any decision yet, and am still considering if my aches and pains will let me ride again. The MT-09 has indeed come up on my radar as an alternative to a big tourer.
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Anything happening here ????
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Nothing yet, as my injury is still restricting what I can do. :'(
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Any update on this Pete? As I've decided to downsize, I need to look at options, and just wondering where you are with this, I could do with some of the benefit of your toils.
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Any update on this Pete? As I've decided to downsize, I need to look at options, and just wondering where you are with this, I could do with some of the benefit of your toils.
There's several contenders that have popped up. Honda are said to be bringing out a GB500, which is a retro style, with a little more grunt that the current GB350. Royal Enfield also look like resssurecting the 500 Bullet, which has also caught my eye, as the 350 Bullet is a bit asthmatic at highway speeds according to Langers. Of the current crop of possibilities the RE Interceptor remains top of my list if Chris still wants to ride pillion. If she choses not to, then the Kawasaki Z650RS is looking good as it's lighter then the RE with a little more HP. My back continues to slowly improve, thank goodness, but I'm not up to riding yet.
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.... my specs.....
* Not much more than 200kg
* Somewhere reasonable for a pillion to sit from time to time
* Not too tall in the pillion seat, which makes mounting the bike difficult
* The ability to fit some nice soft panniers to carry a few bits and bobs
* I'm not too fussed about fuel range any more
My needs / wants are pretty similar. Bikesales.com searches have been a process of adding criteria, deleting criteria, filtering, etc. and have resulted in some confusion, but also some interesting results. Outta the blue, this little gem, the Yamaha MT-09 Tracer, came from left field, although it may quickly be dismissed after a first look in the flesh and /or test ride, particularly the latter as the bike looks a bit sporty and the riding position / rider pasture may not be conducive for my aches and pains.
This link is one (of two) at a dealer near me. Will have to get there for a good look and a test ride soon, very soon.
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2016-yamaha-mt-09-tracer-mt09tra/OAG-AD-24171960/?Cr=0 (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2016-yamaha-mt-09-tracer-mt09tra/OAG-AD-24171960/?Cr=0)
One of my key needs / wants is kg, at 190kg, this looks the goods, for me anyway, from the aspect.
Another high on my wish list is the Suzuki V-Strom 650, a completely different style of bike, but much more versatile, and weighty, as well as more expensive when compared with a few other makes & models of similar age and km.
Oh, I am confused.
I have plenty of time to considered as I won't be doing anything prior to returning from Toowoomba.
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Your 190kg weight is misleading - you won't get far with no oil or petrol. The '16 MT09 Tracer tank holds 18 litres (13.5kg) and Oil is 3.4 litres say 3.2 kg so the 190kg is in reality close to 207kg. Still a lot lighter than 330+kg.
The Himalayan is 196kg. I enjoy the weight loss (of the bike), but I enjoy the long distance riding comfort and ability of the V-Strom even though its wet weight is 233kg.
Good luck with your searches gents.
PS, on the AuStrom FB site, there is much love for the 650. Its dirt road manners are very good apparently and only 4kg heavier than the Tracer.
Oops, just saw the table you included. Not sure where the extra 3kg have come from unless it includes radiator and brake fluid - surely not.
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... you won't get far with no oil or petrol ...
Yes, re. the oil, I learned the hard way on the Suzuki TS185, back in '75, and have run out of petrol in car and bike more than once. And, apparently it was my fault (so my boss at the time said, despite being in his work car) when we ran out of LPG in the Nissan 200B (dedicated LPG) out the back of Castlemaine back in the early 80's. That proved difficult, like it's not easy to carry a 4 gallon can of LPG to refill it.
Back on topic - with a Strom, although not too heavy, I may be missing the opportunity to shed another 30kg which may mean another downsize required, albeit in another 5 years. Buy aye, it's only $$.
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Will the seat height of the MT09 be an issue, Michael? It's around 40mm taller than the ST... :popcorn
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Have you checked out the Suzuki SV650, Michael? :thumbsup
Wet weight -198kgs
Seat height -785mm
https://suzukimotorcycles.com.au/range/road/sv650/
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Will the seat height of the MT09 be an issue, Michael? It's around 40mm taller than the ST... :popcorn
Yes, I've noted that, not sure if it would be an issue, sitting on & riding one will confirm that for me either way. I initially had the ST1300 seat positioned on the highest setting (without any issue) before I realised there were lower settings. The main reason I ride the ST on the lower setting is for a better view of the dashboard indicator lights.
Re. the ST1300's specified seat height of 790mm, does anyone know if that's low, medium or high?
Have you checked out the Suzuki SV650, Michael? :thumbsup
Wet weight -198kgs
Seat height -785mm
https://suzukimotorcycles.com.au/range/road/sv650/
Yes, but dismissed. My view is they're a little bland, and as far as I can determine there isn't any decent OEM or after-market integrated, stylish hard panniers or topbox available - another want, rather than need.
Hope Pete does mind the hijack and thread title change, but I figure any discussion around downsizing options is healthy.
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Re. the ST1300's specified seat height of 790mm, does anyone know if that's low, medium or high?
A quick Google search found these seat heights for the ST1300: 775, 790, 805mm
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One thing I do miss is the shaft drive. Cleaning, oiling, cleaning, oiling, replacing the chain and sprockets - not a big job, but a PITA nonetheless.
So, out of left field - how about a Moto Guzzi V85 TT Travel (Cruise control, adjustable suspension, panniers - the works) Dry weight 210kg (don't look at the wet weight) and you'll be the coolest rider on the road.
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2020-moto-guzzi-v85-tt-travel/SSE-AD-17510080/?Cr=2 (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2020-moto-guzzi-v85-tt-travel/SSE-AD-17510080/?Cr=2)
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https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2020-moto-guzzi-v85-tt-travel/SSE-AD-17510080/?Cr=2 (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2020-moto-guzzi-v85-tt-travel/SSE-AD-17510080/?Cr=2)
Seems a bit pricey, but enough to get me thinking. Moto Guzzi Martin (had a big arse California), downsize to an MV Augusta, not sure which model, but something like this.
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2016-mv-agusta-turismo-veloce-800/OAG-AD-23561801/?Cr=2 (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2016-mv-agusta-turismo-veloce-800/OAG-AD-23561801/?Cr=2)
Some many options .....
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Something came from far left field today, so far left it was outta the ballpark, in the next suburb.
I mentioned to Helen that a mate was selling his BMW outfit (no, not that), and asked if I've considered an outfit or a Spyder. I didn't need that question asked again. Long story short, after a couple of phone calls and messages I found out that my brother-in-law is selling his 2018 F3 LTD with 15,800km on the clock.
Yeah, I know it's not 100kg (or more lighter) and a little more $$ than I'd intended, but big, powerful, comfortable, stable and manoeuvrable enough to allow me to continue riding.
Away next week camping, but a trip to Benalla first thing the week after, and I think I'll know by then.
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Weight might not be much of an issue if you don't have to hold it up, and you can still tow a trailer if you want.
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Weight might not be much of an issue if you don't have to hold it up, and you can still tow a trailer if you want.
Yeah, at 460kg the weight is massive, but with three wheels and reverse I suspect it won't be an issue at all. I'm currently without a trailer, don't think I'll get another one though.
The deciding factor will be the ride. I haven't ridden one since 2009 (at the Ulysses AGM test rides at Penrith), and whilst I wasn't a big fan of the ride then, 16 years later, a few push bike and motor bike incidents has caused some wear & tear. Perhaps the ride won't be an issue.
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This has prompted me to search BikeSales.com. Some people really know how to spoil a bike.
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2017-can-am-spyder-rt-ltd-se6/SSE-AD-18171909/ (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2017-can-am-spyder-rt-ltd-se6/SSE-AD-18171909/)
I suppose some will like it, but not me - que sera, sera.
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Interesting paint job, but not my cup of tea..
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The black Spyder looks great :thumbsup :clap
The bikesales one, not so much.
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This has prompted me to search BikeSales.com. Some people really know how to spoil a bike.
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2017-can-am-spyder-rt-ltd-se6/SSE-AD-18171909/ (https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2017-can-am-spyder-rt-ltd-se6/SSE-AD-18171909/)
I suppose some will like it, but not me - que sera, sera.
What, you don't fancy yourself as the Lion King, Michael? :rofl
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:Spyder :hijacked
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Good hijack too :thumb
There are many motorcycles out there today 100kg or more lighter than the venerable ST. I've been very happy with the V-Strom 1000 after a bit of farkling and I'm sure there are many other marques with better credentials than the V-Strom. Even the Himalayan is a handy touring bike, It's done a couple of FarRoad1000's and hasn't disgraced itself. It does have a seat no other bikes I've ridden come close to for discomfort - perhaps I'm just delicate :runyay
I think I'm just saying perhaps look a little wider before settling for an over weight, over powered gopher :Stirpot
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over weight, over powered gopher :Stirpot
:rofl
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I got my Spyder RT Limited serviced last week and they gave me a Spyder F3 LTD as a loan bike and found it quite nice to ride and it does look good in black
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Has JohnnyTED still got his Spyder for sale?
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I believe so.
Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk
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Well I got out on two wheels again today. My son and I rode the Amy Gillett Trail, a 30km round trip in the Adelaide Hills. He was on a heavily modified "Dirt Surfer" which is an electric two wheeled thingo that is steered by shifting body weigh, a bit like riding a bicycle with no hands and with a hand held throttle/brake. I rode his more traditional electric scooter, which was a lot of fun and handled like a small shopping trolly. This kind of stuff will soon be legal in SA, as the legislation has passed parliament and some accompanying regs are being fine tuned.
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2025/05/03/1d236686e1f0caa564378ceadc4d0a82.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2025/05/03/dce3bc50e9c083117e0ff52d2e4580e3.jpg)
(https://www.imghostr.net/images/2025/05/03/3ba26b366be6042dfc82c3a66e587712.jpg)
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Looks like fun.
..... This kind of stuff will soon be legal in SA, as the legislation has passed parliament and some accompanying regs are being fine tuned.
I heard a rumour that there are soon to be some changes in VIC to regulations re. eBikes and eScooters and the like. Not sure what good it will do other than legitimise what about 5% of what eBike and eScooter riders already do, and safely do at that. The other 95% are outta control and do many, many risky, dangerous things on roads and paths.
In Feb '24 we had a coupla weeks on the Gold Coast, the number of eBikes / eScooters was around 10 fold more (probably a weather thing) and problem was exponentially worse.
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By the look of the picture Pete, you were wearing ATGATT - well done.
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Not quite a motorbike but it looks like you were having an awesome time :runyay