OzSTOC
OzSTOC News & Rider Assistance => General Motorcycle News Links => Topic started by: ruSTyEB on September 05, 2012, 09:39:10 PM
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A few years back I emailed the then "Queensland Transport" regarding filtering. For my own curiosity I wanted to know what laws were being broken, so I may talk my way out of a fine :grin
Thought I'd post the reply as I found it interesting.
*QUOTE*
16 November 2007
Thank you for your email below about lane-splitting by motorbikes.
While there is currently no specific rule prohibiting lane-splitting,
there are a number of sections of the Queensland Road Rules that may be
contravened by a motorbike rider while lane-splitting. I have set out the
particular rules below along with the infringement notice penalty for each
one. In practice, it would be very difficult for a motorbike rider to
lane-split without contravening some or all of these rules.
changing lanes without signalling for sufficient distance to alert other
road users - penalty of $45 and two demerit points;
failing to stay within a single marked lane or line of traffic - penalty
of $60;
failing to provide a safe distance when passing another vehicle - penalty
of $105 and two demerit points; and
failing to stop at a stop line at traffic lights - penalty of $135 and 3
demerit points.
These rules apply whether or not the traffic either side of the motorbike
is moving or stationary.
It is the responsibility of the Queensland Police Service to enforce these
road rules.
I trust that this answers your question. If you have any further
questions then please contact me again either by return email or using the
details below and I'll be happy to help you.
Regards
John N Burrill
Senior Advisor (Policy)
Land Transport and Safety Division
*END QUOTE*
:bl11 :bl11 :bl11 :bl11
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That is why i take a position in the traffic and ride like im driving a car.
Not in any great hurry,
Unless i just feel the need , the need for speed !
Which ocasionaly i pay the price. Its all part of the game
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Totally agree. At the time I was riding through Brisbane peak hour traffic on the KLX, and sometimes it was safer to get in front of traffic.
These days no need and I behave.
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changing lanes without signalling for sufficient distance to alert other
road users - penalty of $45 and two demerit points;
failing to stay within a single marked lane or line of traffic - penalty
of $60;
failing to provide a safe distance when passing another vehicle - penalty
of $105 and two demerit points; and
failing to stop at a stop line at traffic lights - penalty of $135 and 3
demerit points.
There's really only one there that would be impossible to adhere to- passing too close to another vehicle.
The other three are achievable- don't change lanes (or if you do, indicate) and don't go beyond the stop line.
Regarding the last one, the number of cars that go beyond the stop line for absolutely no reason whatsoever is staggering. Of course the Fourbies are champions, probably because they can't see down that far.
When I was "nearly booked" by a Copper I was told lane splitting is illegal. I'll have to read the rules again, because your letter is now 5 years old, and they make up new laws every week. And, of course, they're different in every State, even though sins committed in ignorance while interstate will cost you points at home as well as the fine interstate.
It might be like the controversial and "ambiguously legal" cylindrical rego holders where the Qld DOT now print on the back of the rego sticker not to use them.
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Interesting, who decides in law what is a safe distance when passing another vehicle?
Who did the measurements and what makes that the safe measurement?
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When the traffics stopped I'm always the one getting to the front. The front is the best place to be in traffic or not
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Fellas I can tell you for sure that the same legislation still applies for lane splitting/filtering in Queensland.
As for who decides the safety on the distance overtaking a vehicle, would you normally overtake a car at the same distances that you do when you lane split/filter? I would suggest not, and that is the reasoning I use to determine a 'safe distance' and had Magistrates agree with me in Court. Individual officers may use other reasoning, but it is the officer at the time when intercepting that decides, and then the Court if you contest the matter. Most of us just replay the video we have recording and let the magistrate decide. I have also picked up the riders that haven't had quick enough reaction to the car that does move when they don't expect.
The answer to your next question is that I have never lane split/filtered, unless under lights getting to the crash at the front of the line to help, and won't do it on my own bike. Personally I think riders are drawing the crabs on themselves from car drivers by appearing if they are better than everybody else.
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An interesting reply Steve.
There are the obvious cultural differences to be considered.
But over here we lane split as the norm. Police officers lane split and during training are encouraged to. You can fail your motorcycle test if you don't make progress. It must of course be done safely. Filtering as it's called over here is (or should be) done with extreme care and at low speeds only, if your filtering in steady flowing traffic your going to get a pull for an unsafe manoeuvre. It is illegal on most occasions to undertake. Pass another vehicle on the left. This is one such time.
As to a safe distance I don't know of one been decided in law over here. I like yourself would take that at my discretion. It all depends on what the total actions and outcome were and just a little bit on what sort of day I was having :wink1.
I do know that in Florida as part of statute it is written that you must not pass a vehicle motorised or not moving or not within three feet.
Can't get much clearer than that.
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Thanks Tack :thumb
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Thanks Tack :thumb
All I know is that car drivers would do it if they could, because I have seen more than a few try
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Cheers Tackle berry, some good insight. The majority of riders know its illegal, but maybe they think in degrees of wrong. A small number actually think its 100%legal and will swear black and blue its OK.
that's why God made twisties, a road where the fun hasn't been filtered down :grin
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I know what the laws say, but I also know what keeps me safe. Me being up the front instead of in traffic is safe :thumb Me being in traffic doing 10kph when every driver is rushing to get home from work is dangerous, so I'm in the emergency stopping lane, all by myself and safe.
just imagine how safe riders would be if the majority of vehicle drivers obeyed the rules including those that cut the corners in the twisties, come over the top of hills in the middle of the road, and don't move over when the road is a single lane?????
I ride the safest way I know how and if breaking a few rules means I'm safe then the rules are broken.
Ahhhh but then again some professional rider we all see on the TV will tell me different?? but then again that same rider has never held a Motorcycle license and is forbidden to ride on a public road because of his contract
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Hi Terry, sorry mate wasn't having a go at you. I was talking in general.
In heavy traffic will do the same if it's safe to do so, and I feel the drivers around me are a risk. It depends on the road, and conditions. For instance I would always split and get to the front heading north from Abbortsford Rd and into Sandgate Rd through Albion, because you can't be hit by a bad merger when you are in front of them.
It's a bit like speeding, we all go that little bit over the limit at times, and if we happen to get caught, cop it on the chin. On the highway by myself, I'll regulary sit a metre or two behind a vehicle until I'm seen in the mirrors, then accelarate past them. During this manouvre I'm usually going 10-20 km above the limit, before resuming my cruising speed. Whilst this keeps me safer on the road, being 'away' from drivers not looking out, I can still be booked. A risk I'm willing to take.
If we get caught filtering, we need to cop it on the chin, unless we think we have a good case to plead :grin
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Mate no offense.
Only ever stopped by a Cop (Motorcycle) once when in an emergency lane when the rest of the traffic was stopped??? and said the hello and he said his hello and we were off (No Fine). I thinks he knew it was the safe thing to do, or maybe it was because I said my bike was playing up and I may have needed an emergency stop :rofl :runyay
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:thumb
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Man I see it all the time in Townsville. Never do it. To unsafe. Besides I've pick up and washed the road off for to many riders who thought they were indestructible.
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This is just opinion, and no disrespect to Tackleberry, if I am stuck in traffic and the car aren't moving I will move through the traffic slowly . I have spoken to mister plod and he said most police on bikes won't get you, it will be the ones in the cars. He did say that if the traffic isn't moving and you are crawling along they will generally let you go :thumbs :blk13
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Sorry, but my experience is more than just opinion......
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I like it on the freeway. Me in my eight wheeler Volvo with trailer, the bikes queue up behind me, cause I'm maximum width.
I agree with Sabie. I've seen to many come to grief with painful consequences.
:blu13
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Thanks Malcolm
Try inserting the hydraulic spreaders (jaws of life - hate that term) into the grill of a kenworth to release a helmet with parts of the rider still there and you'll treat the bike with a bit more respect and trepidation.
Don't take risks, it not just your life your risking..
Sabie
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"WOW" wonder how hard the bike hit the truck or how hard the truck hit the bike????
Had a mate hit a truck on a bike and die and their was bugger all damage to him on the outside. But the inside was a different story.
I was hit by a truck a few years ago, no Jaws of Life but an ambulance trip was kool until a sweet young thing pulled out in front of the Ambulance and hit the breaks.
Ambulances are so hard to see with the bloody lights flashing and a Siren on :think1
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Sabie if we don't take risks as you suggest no one here would ride a motorcycle.
I agree with doing things as safe as possible but any and every action involving the use of a motorcycle is a risk. We should all be aware of that. You just have to minimize that risk as far as possible. If you don't think it's safe don't do it, pretty simple really, remembering that you run the risk of getting pulled over of course.
If you get your helmet stuck in a trucks grill when filtering you were not doing it right. JMHO.
I have to say that I don't like the term lane splitting either, it sounds far too aggressive. It's a term that will get people who don't know fully what the action is, thinking that it's an aggressive action. Filtering is done at low near crawling pace. Not at all aggressive.
Once again JMHO.
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Truck... Prob 100k ...bike, who knows well over 100k.
Risks happen every day, most are acceptable and necessary..... On a bike, I'm talking about unnecessary risks.
I had a bike lane split the other week, I was up with at the next set of lights, so why take the risk..
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That is why i take a position in the traffic and ride like im driving a car.
Not in any great hurry,
:blu13
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That is why i take a position in the traffic and ride like im driving a car.
Not in any great hurry,
i am with you, I spend my time in traffic being aware of what is around me, and not increasing my risk :) but each to their own, it is what makes us all individual.....
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I've filtered sometimes when I used to work in suburban Adelaide but since I've had the 1100 I haven't done it. Most trips I take to the city now I'm towing the trailer (combine shopping and pleasure on one trip) so that puts filtering out anyway.
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I had the chance to visit the Rehab centre at Shenton Park in Perth.
There were a lot of motorcycle injuries in there. Lots were people doing dumb things on small bikes with next to nothing in the way of PPE.
Then there we those who where riding big bikes with all the gear which came into contact with other vehicles. Rehab takes a long time. The lucky ones die on the road. It is a real eye opener to see people trying to get limbs working again.
:blu13
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The lucky ones die on the road. WHAT? you being serious Malcolm.
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The lucky ones die on the road. WHAT? you being serious Malcolm.
Depending on the extent of the injury - I think I agree with Malcolm... not that you'd probably know, but I don't think being a vegetable would be much fun.
The last 14 months of my experience on the ST1300 (after a 12 year gap) tells me that even with my adjusted riding style (more safe I hope) I'm actually more likely to be hit by another motorcycle who's splitting lanes at speeds far-far greater than me or anyone else on the road (as in 30-40km/h faster)... those buggers appear out of nowhere in car mirrors - they don't even get seen at all in motorcycle mirrors.
Interestingly too, when I was first "splitting lanes" in Perth in the early 90s, I used to call it "riding the angel lane".... for good reason me thinks.
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????????????????????? Whats all this crap about accidents.
Give me a break. You ride a motorcycle. Want to be safe, just give up riding. Bloody simple. Open your eyes and have a look around.
Every car on the road wants to kill you, every bike you ride wants to kill you.
You have all these ahhhh mature age riders who haven't ridden for years jumping on bikes with at least twice the horsepower of what they used to ride, if they really ever did, and the majority of riders who die on the roads are them.
You have all these young guys that jump onto 300kph bikes that are so easy to ride a 6 year old can do it. I mean they have great brakes, great everything, an idiot can lean em over and put a knee down and still be safe, but when it all goes wrong??
Ahhhh I have full leathers that will protect me when I come off. Nahhhhhhh "DI*****D" the pros were full armor under their suits and a thousand years of experience. That's why they get up and walk away.
If you want to be safe, stay at home. But then again heaps of people die a year getting out of the shower/bath, slipping on a mat, changing a light bulb.
Me I've crashed at over 200 due to a flat in the front tyre (Some ULYSSES expert I got the bike off put a tube in it). Tubes deflate straight away where tubeless lose air slowly
Crashed on a roundabout after some DOOF DOOF fools dropped oil on it so they could drift and third being hit by a truck that did a U turn in front of me??????? All up two trips in an ambulance
I ride 6 out of seven and everyday I ride I come real close to being killed.
You want to stay safe, either stay home or do what you have to to stay safe and if it means breaking the rules, "Break em"
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..."DI*****D"...
terrydj, can I ask who this was directed to?
You talk of "mature age" and "these young guys"..., just for context, which bracket do you fall into? Your profile doesn't mention it.
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As I read Terrys post I would say he's referring to the guy in all the gear who thinks that's going to save his hide.
I'm 54 and still don't know if that makes me a mature or young rider all depends on the day....... :wink1
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Alpha, at 54, i'd say your a mature rider. Attitude and approach is the key here.
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Try and justify lane filtering if you want but it is dangerous, it does aggravate motorists. All you need to do is Leave plenty or room in front between you and the car in front, watch your mirrors for the cars behind you, be patient. Ride passively not aggressively. Make sure you can be seen and have been seen.
Your injury or death will effect other people such as loved ones, rescue and medical people.
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Sabie, not to put too much of a damper on things, the topic is "Lane Splitting", which I think everyone will agree means going up between stopped or very slow cars to get to the front of the queue. So if anyone's got his helmet stuck in the front of a truck going at 100KPH then someone is doing something both stupid and reckless, and it sure as s**t wouldn't be classed as "Lane Splitting".
I see nothing wrong in going between cars that are not going anywhere, especially if there is traffic jam, so as to get the front. As long as there is sufficient room to get the bars through without causing any damage to the cars, or my bike, I don't see the problem, but the caveat is the speed of the cars either side of you.
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Gentleman and others I'm 55 and have ridden 6 days out of 7 since 1974 licensed on the road and for 8 years before that.
Ahhhh now for the mature age. The facts say that its everyone over 35 and the Bike related deaths stats say the same.
Was a member of the ULYSSES for a whole 4 months and near everyone their said that they had ridden on the road before they got married but sold the bike when they got married and now after how many years they were back on one????????
Funny thing is me and everyone I knew at the time needed their bike for work as like most only had one car?
Yeap met a heap of experts then I did.
As most will know, if you rode a bike in the 60's and 70's and the 80's you knew everyone in your town or area who rode, and in all honesty their were bugger all Motorcycle riders so I have no idea where all these once owned a bike riders were. I mean when I rode on the Gold Coast in the early 70's the only bikes I would see is maybe on a Sunday outside the Bird Watchers Bar in Surfers but apparently their were heaps of riders on the Gold Coast????
Hmmm my bike and a couple of mates from the army were the only bikes ever outside the Canungra Cafe and now their are hundreds in the street???
So That's What I Know
And yeah the young young guys all in leather with the RI and all the gear. As anyone who has ridden a late model performance motorcycle will tell you (I owned a Blackbird) they are just so easy to ride, and anyone can ride them to the Max. Trouble is when it all goes wrong you need the experience and the skills to help you.
Trouble with the new performance bikes is that they are just too easy to ride.
In the old days riding bikes with no brakes, poor tyres, suspect handling and the rest gave you the skills for when things went wrong but now with everything so perfect those skills may or can never be learned????
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Sabie, not to put too much of a damper on things, the topic is "Lane Splitting", which I think everyone will agree means going up between stopped or very slow cars to get to the front of the queue. So if anyone's got his helmet stuck in the front of a truck going at 100KPH then someone is doing something both stupid and reckless, and it sure as s**t wouldn't be classed as "Lane Splitting".
I see nothing wrong in going between cars that are not going anywhere, especially if there is traffic jam, so as to get the front. As long as there is sufficient room to get the bars through without causing any damage to the cars, or my bike, I don't see the problem, but the caveat is the speed of the cars either side of you.
There seems to be a lot of confusion understanding the differences between lane splitting ((sharing) this is illegal) and filtering. Both are similar but are also very different to each other.
In it's simplest form "Filtering" is riding between stationary vehicles and "Splitting" is done between moving vehicles.
From what I can work out in SA there is no actual law forbiding filtering but it is tolerated providing it's done safely. I can legally pass a car on the right if I'm in the same lane as the car. I can legally pass a stationary car on it's left. If I need to change lanes while filtering I must indicate. And I'm not allowed to cross a continuous lane line either.
That's my understanding of what I read, someone else may see it differently.
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Even wikipedia (that very reliable source of information) has an interesting article on the whys and why nots, filtering vs. splitting, and the history in California. VicRoads cracks a mention too. There seems to be lots of research, but overall it seems a little out-dated and somewhat inconclusive... unless you focus on just 1 or 2 of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting)
So, do or don't do, but the probability of a ticket in Australia is guaranteed to be non-zero. :cop
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i think there is a very simple solution to this entire thread....
We shall all agree to disagree....do you not agree.... :beer
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Yes Dad!
|-i :whistle
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i think there is a very simple solution to this entire thread....
We shall all agree to disagree....do you not agree.... :beer
Ahhhh and very well said.
But please ride to survive. Who cares what people say. If you think it is right, that's all important.
I mean I put both feet on the ground at lights or when stopped and the experts at QRide say I am wrong, so I guess that means I'm not an expert.
So please disregard everything I have said.
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i think there is a very simple solution to this entire thread....
We shall all agree to disagree....do you not agree.... :beer
Of course
I mean I put both feet on the ground at lights or when stopped and the experts at QRide say I am wrong
You are not alone in doing that especially when riding two-up.
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Me too. If doing something illegal means that I survive and live to ride another day, then so be it.
:bl11
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Wish someone had told me that there was a difference between lane splitting and filtering earlier....it would have saved me a lot of typing.... :|||| :rofl
I agree to disagree of course that's what makes us human after all.
As to doing illegal things to survive. I'm 100% with STeveo on that. I'm pretty certain that the additional lighting on my St is illegal as far as the road traffic act goes, but it's obvious to anyone and everyone that it's there in an attempt to get me seen and therefore make me more safe. Never had a problem with the bobbies because of that.
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Hey Alpha
There's a guy in a Kenworth wants his bullbar and lights back.... :wink1 :grin
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In it's simplest form "Filtering" is riding between stationary vehicles and "Splitting" is done between moving vehicles.
[/quote]
Ahh i learn something new :whistle
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I do the filtering, not the splitting, when the traffic isn't going anywhere, I crawl through as long as I can fit. Splitting ,I think you are pushing your luck. You don't know what the drivers are going to do. :thumbs :blk13
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I just reread the original post in this thread. I think the problem with the thread starts within the first few lines.
A few years back I emailed the then "Queensland Transport" regarding filtering. For my own curiosity I wanted to know what laws were being broken, so I may talk my way out of a fine :grin
Thought I'd post the reply as I found it interesting.
*QUOTE*
16 November 2007
Thank you for your email below about lane-splitting by motorbikes.
So we can all lay the blame at the feet of the Queensland Transport spokesman who it seems didn't know the difference either.
:rofl :rofl
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Yeah and we can lay the Blame on the Queensland Police Force for not sending you a decent size Photo of your bike when your caught speeding so you can put it on the wall :thumbsup
The photo trust me are really good :thumbs
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Saw this on Net Rider today
http://www.news.com.au/national/on-your-bike-motorbike-riders-may-be-allowed-to-ride-in-gap-between-cars/story-fndo4eg9-1226476525422?fb_action_ids=362000443874357&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=timeline_og&action_object_map=%7B%22362000443874357%22%3A278174512298552%7D&action_type_map=%7B%22362000443874357%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map= (http://www.news.com.au/national/on-your-bike-motorbike-riders-may-be-allowed-to-ride-in-gap-between-cars/story-fndo4eg9-1226476525422?fb_action_ids=362000443874357&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=timeline_og&action_object_map=%7B%22362000443874357%22%3A278174512298552%7D&action_type_map=%7B%22362000443874357%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=)[]
by By Malcolm Farr National Political Editor From:
news.com.au September 18, 2012
1:24PM
Quote :-
LANE splitting, in which of motorcyclists ride down the gap between lines of stalled traffic, could be legalised and even encouraged to help reduce congestion.
It annoys some motorists and in limited circumstances could be dangerous. But federal MPs in Canberra today were told it was an option that had to be considered.
And Victoria is close to permitting the practice, also known as "filtering".
Shaun Lennard, chairman of the Australian Motorcycle Council and chair the federal Motorcycle Safety Consultative Committee, said laws had to be changed to encourage more users of PTWs - powered two wheels.
"One initiative currently under consideration in Victoria is a trial of legalised filtering - that is, riding between stationery or very slow-moving lines of traffic," Mr Lennard said in a speech to MPs at a Canberra breakfast.
"This is a common practice in the majority of major cities, yet in most cases it is technically illegal.
"It's largely overlooked by police, and it's something that has worked for decades and makes sense. Some European countries have been looking at legitimising filtering."
Mr Lennard said London and Paris were making it easier for cyclists and motorcyclists to use the cities' roads, and that European research had shown traffic congestion could be eased by increasing PTW numbers.
But in Australia, "Last year we had the National Transport Commission release a detailed report on the future of transport in Australia, with all sorts of data and graphs showing changes and trends - a report which failed to make any reference to motorcycling.
"This despite the fact that the number of registered motorcycles had grown by 7 per cent per year for the previous decade."
A Belgian study last year looked at morning peak traffic on a major highway between a satellite city, Leuven, and Brussels.
Detailed modelling calculated that if 10 per cent of the car users had instead been on motorcycles, congestion would have been reduced by around 40 per cent - a major saving for all road users.
Mr Lennard said most Australian governments had not looked at similar policies despite a huge growth in the number of people - particularly women - now regularly riding motorbikes and scooters.
He said there had been "a dramatic increase in the number of motorcycles and scooters on the roads" in the past decade.
"In Australia, the number of registered motorcycles has almost doubled over the past 11 years to around 700,000. That's an annual increase of almost 7 per cent, which compares to an average annual increase in registrations across all vehicle types of around 3 per cent over the same period," said Mr Lennard.
"Over the past decade, there have been two key demographic areas where the number of riders has increased dramatically - firstly the number of female riders, and secondly in the number of people aged over 50 (both male and female).
"As many of the males over 50 years of age buying motorcycles are people who had ridden in their twenties, the tag returning riders is often applied collectively to this demographic.
"However a substantial number of male riders over 50 and almost all of the women riders are in fact new to motorcycling.
"Women have increasingly turned to motorcycling for both commuting and leisure purposes. It's been anecdotally reported that many women feel safer travelling to and from work by motorcycle than using public transport - literally riding to and from their own residence to the parking area of their place of employment.
"The average age of a learner motorcyclist across is Australia, from the last data I had a year or so ago, was 32.
"Scooter sales in Australia have been an area of significant growth. This has gone from around 600 new scooters a year in the 1990s, to a peak of over 15,000 new scooters three or four years ago, that has levelled now at still over 10,000 new scooters per year."
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Well that's a step in the right direction. Especially since we're rapidly heading towards uniform national traffic legislation.
It's odd the writer only mentions some European countries are considering legitimising filtering, since it is already legal in at least two of them. Indeed, I understand there is a line drawn at the front of the traffic light queues for m/cs to line up at. That mightn't work here in Qld where I see half the front cars are 2 metres over the existing limit line and about 25% are 2 metres short of it.
We've flogged all the arguments to death. We recognise there are hazards associated with it which would have to be covered in licence training. Real care needs to be taken in the vicinity of trucks and semis, and we know there is a possibility of someone opening a car door in the middle of traffic.
Personally, I'm all for it. I know it annoys some tintop captives, but if it were to become the norm, they'd just have to live with it and/or get a motorcycle.
The downside is the STs are a bit wide for a lot of the spaces, and I happen to have noticed (dunno how) that the mirrors are the same height above the ground as most car wing mirrors.
Once petrol gets to $4.00 per litre when shale oil is the only source, and we're all riding methane powered postie bikes, I'm sure there will be a real push to consider the remote possibility of having further discussions about legalising filtering.
In stationary traffic.
In towns of fewer than 500 population.
On Tuesdays.
If the date is 31st of the month.
In Leap Years.
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I don't see a problem going down the outsides (left) for example the run from the north of Townsville along Woolcock St between the Bohle an mathers st roundabout. Theres a half lane or wide verge there for a couple of k's.
The other matter is at what speed is it no longer safe to go up the middle?
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I posted article on my facebook and my sisters response was "Personally I don't like the idea... have had bikers tear down alongside of me and frightened the crap out of me cause the bikes are so noisy."
I agree with you Biggles......the ST is a little to wide (or so it seems) for filtering and I haven't done it since I've had mine.
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The bikes are a little wider, but as long as the mirror tethers are serviceable, I dont see the problem. :grin :grin :grin
I will neither confirm nor deny that my covers fell off one day. They are easy to pop back on at the next set of lights, no need to get off. :rofl :rofl
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...They are easy to pop back on at the next set of lights, no need to get off. :rofl :rofl
Not for my 1 year old ST1300 it's not... two hands and a good lean. I couldn't possible do it at the lights one-handed. This is also the reason why my target gap is quite wide.... my mirrors will come off and can be put back in place, but I reckon the car's mirrors will end up in pieces on the ground, and my ST13 subsequently being pursued. Perhaps it's because your ST11 is a little more "seasoned" than mine. :p
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'Safety' is a funny and rubbery word as the Gubberment in the UK (or parts thereof) have decided that filtering is a safe practice that also helps the movement of traffic and alleviates congestion, by having those 10,000 or so motorbikes evacuate the area instead of being more stationery lumps on the street/roadway.....
I guess the driver and rider education there is also commensurate with allowing for this practice....
But our Gubberment decides that the practice is not safe.
Be clear all you great contributors to this thread that 'filtering' is meant to mean SLOWLY moving between cars when they are STOPPED! If you change any of those two words the danger increases immeasurably and exponentially! And even the term 'filtering' has to be changed because when the cars are MOVING - it is not what the intended guidelines allowed for!
Here is a link to a poll/discussion we once ran on this very subject....
http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=768.0 (http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=768.0)
Thanks for a great thread.
Cheers, Diesel
EDIT: For the record - I don't filter - but I have moved along the adequately sized left shoulder of the road with slow (5km/h) moving traffic in one of those 8 kilomtere Bruce Highway traffic jams - due to accident - but I CAN get booked for this.
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I agree with you Biggles......the ST is a little to wide (or so it seems) for filtering and I haven't done it since I've had mine.
Agree their a bit wider than a "Sports Bike" but when the traffics stopped I am always trying to get to the front. And have only ever touched a Mirror once and that was last week here on the Gold Coast.
Should see the looks on people faces when you you do it two up with a trailer on :rofl :rofl
Its a real "What the F???"
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I posted article on my facebook and my sisters response was "Personally I don't like the idea... have had bikers tear down alongside of me and frightened the crap out of me cause the bikes are so noisy."
I sympathise completely with that view, both regarding the speed and the noise. The usual defence of "Loud pipes save lives" is pure BS in my book.
Loud pipes are yelling "Look at me on my amazing Harley" or Chook Chaser or whatever.
While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes? There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too. Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?
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I agree Biggles, when they pull up beside me at the lights they scare the bejesus out of me with the noise.
You think your sitting at the front of a line of cars by yourself waiting for the green and all of a sudden the Harley pulls up beside you and scares the hell out of you. :eek :well
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While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes? There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too. Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?
A while back I worked for "LINK" International, probably the largest after market Motorcycle parts supplier in Australia.
We sold heaps of aftermarket pipes to the Ahhhhhhh Biker cruiser crowd and I never seen a pair that had an Australian Compliance stamped on them??? Their may have been a pair but never seen them.
Believe it or not, the majority of ahhhhhhh riders that brought them never brought the chip that tells their ignition system the exhaust flow has been altered, that's why most sound like crap and they all backfire??????
I ran a 2" straight through system for maybe 10/15 years on my old Stroked Harley that was heaps quieter than the rubbish you here now.
Suppose it all comes down to the Look at me Look at me, my bike is newer than yours, my Chrome is shinier than yours, environment that some??????? motorcyclists exist in.
As to the legal side all I know is no stamp, Off the road. Too loud off the road "Simple"
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I sympathise completely with that view, both regarding the speed and the noise. The usual defence of "Loud pipes save lives" is pure BS in my book. +1 :thumbsup
Loud pipes are yelling "Look at me on my amazing Harley" or Chook Chaser or whatever.
While I'm on this rant, can Roper or Tackle tell me how these idiots get away with these straight through pipes? There are quite a few cars with minimal silencing around too. Is it too hard to police or is it a matter of priorities?
Biggles quite simply it comes down to three things:
1. Australian Standard requirements for testing at specific rev limits and quite a few of these bikes simply don't have tachos to allow for testing in compliance with Australian Standards when we do have the equipment in calibration. (internal issue - money) There are also different interpretations of what equipment is required for testing. I know myself, and quite a few traffic fellas, have the opinion that we don't want our integrity questioned in Court for when we arrive with more 'serious' matters and are very cautious when these types of questions are raised in Courts about whether we are following the correct procedures when dealing with motorists. Until these issues are sorted and everybody is on the same page (which is required as far as I'm concerned) we don't want to plough head on and be criticised in Court because we were blindly following what we're told to do without questioning the procedures are correct to ensure we are following legislation.
2. The second one we deal with is the wording of legislation in relation to penalising people that perform the modification and the investigation required to prove who did the modification. Most Harley's leave the factory with standard pipes that comply with world wide noise limits, however before they leave the dealer there is a modification to pipes that don't comply, as Terry said. Most people believe that these pipes comply because they buy the bike like this and sound level testing is not part of the Safety Certificate (insert whatever your state calls it here) for registration so they don't understand why they can have a registered bike that doesn't comply with legislation because of the "That's how I bought it" defence. Most people don't understand that the safety/roadworthy inspection in most states and territories only covers about 40-50 points to pass.
3. The other issue we have faced with this is that a lot of people don't understand that there is two types of undue noise, causing losses in Courts when legal boffins create confusion for the Magistrates and junior officers not knowing how to stand up and correct the dribble. The first type has to do with the old spinning the wheels on the road, or revving the engine at the lights etc and the second has to do with the noise emission testing in compliance with Australian Standards. One is linked to the other, however testing separates the two for prosecution purposes.
a) The first is purely a subjective test - Is the manner of operation causing the noise emitted required as part of normal operation? Eg Did you have to rev the crap out of your engine as you spun the tyres across the intersection at the lights leaving a dirty great big friggin mess on the road you peanut?
b) The second has to comply with testing procedures set out by the Australian Standards when determining whether it complies with legislation. Eg Maximum output of a vehicle happens at X revs and Australian Standards require a vehicle to be tested at Y (=75% of X) to meet a certain dBA level.
b) is purely done by compliance testing & a) is done by the lose nut behind the wheel showing off to his mates in public.
Terry i also know of at least three bikes around Townsville that have stamped pipes that have had baffles taken out by various owners. I can take my antenna off the bike and poke it up the muffler to show there are no baffles, but that is not a scientific test for the Courts apparently.
As for the difference in Filtering and Splitting bike riders are the only ones that are specific in what they mean, if you talk to my bosses there is no difference. One is what people here refer to as filtering, the other is dangerous operation of a m/veh (at speed), or illegal/unsafe overtaking, and this is what is shown in the letter posted.
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Many thanks for taking the trouble to explain the loud pipes issue.
The bottom line, it seems, is the law is an ass. It seems the more the legislators try to define it, the more loopholes the lawyers can find. So I don't envy your job trying to get a charge to stick in court. It appears it's a game played by the lawyers whose success is only governed by their ability to outsmart the judge. I've seen Rumpole do it on TV. :o
At least the "hooning" legislation has given the Police something definable they can prosecute.
Thanks too, for pointing out that we riders are the only ones who can see the difference between filtering and lane splitting. No wonder it's so hard to arrive at sensible legislation or practice.
All the best in a tough job that few of us want :thumbs
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The noisy pipes is a can of worms in any state.
I have heard of Cop in NSW using an iPhone app to measure the noise, wonder how far that would go in court...
As far as I am aware in WA, there isnt a noise testing station in accordance with the standard, so bikes arent done for noisy exhausts, the riders/drivers are done for operating a vehicle in a noisy manner. :grin
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Hmmm I still on the fence about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g)
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Hmmm I still on the fence about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSRY7RxMF1g)
AWESOME... just unfortunate the chick at the end of the clip looks so disinterested :fp
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AWESOME... just unfortunate the chick at the end of the clip looks so disinterested :fp
I know, right?
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I nearly fell asleep watching this. How uninspriring. What is forgotten in the lane splitting / filtering argument is that most riders who do this breach a number of rules along the way. They don't indicate, overtake on the left of a vehicle, and travel at speeds that most car drivers would not expect, thereby riding without sufficient care. Is it any wonder they get hit by cars. As usual a small number of fools bring down the wrath of government on those that try to do the right thing.
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Looks to me like Maurice Blackburn are trying to win the hearts and minds of motorcyclists.
The chick is probably a MB lawyer. That explains why she is so excitable.
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IMHO filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really. You wont get where you are going much faster than if you just sit in a lane and ride patiently with the traffic flow. I remember reading an article re traffic flow that said " That if letting a car merge in front of you adds 30 seconds to your journey then the average trip to work in a capital city in Australia would only be extended by 10 minutes in a worse case scenario". 8)
If you really need to be there a few mins earlier then leave earlier Wot thuh
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filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really
Cant quite agree with that, there is a piece of road here in the west, that is a major bottle neck around 0800. Its a piece of road approx 5 ks between traffic lights where 2 or 3 vehicles move every light change. I filtered the whole length, and saved a wait of 1/2 an hour, the whole trip from Pearce to Jandakot normally takes 45 minutes, it would have take about 80 minutes had I not filtered through.
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filtering or lane splitting are both not going to achieve anything really
Cant quite agree with that, there is a piece of road here in the west, that is a major bottle neck around 0800. Its a piece of road approx 5 ks between traffic lights where 2 or 3 vehicles move every light change. I filtered the whole length, and saved a wait of 1/2 an hour, the whole trip from Pearce to Jandakot normally takes 45 minutes, it would have take about 80 minutes had I not filtered through.
And increased your risk of an accident at the same time :fp Thats never gunna make sense - No wonder we have stupid words like Smidsy when people ride outside the skill set of the average motorist
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Seams this is a simple case of Risk Vs. Gain...... What are you prepared to Risk and for what Gain ??
Are you prepared to risk your property as well as other people's ??? In addition to your welfare ??
That's why we are all individuals :-++
Cheers
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Very low risk, the traffic was stationary and there was room to move.
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:dred11
I only 'fliter' usually when I'm at a set of lights that I know take a long time to change,eg when they have to go thru turning lanes then thru traffic,and I have a lot of cars ahead of me,,, a few times I have forgotten I have the trailer on and have been lucky not to have collided between cars. I usually remember the trailer when I am lining up mirrors... luckily for me I am going slow enough to hit the skids in time to stop, :fp :dred11
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Filtering with a trailer in tow! That's another step up I hadn't thought of! :eek
The STs have enough trouble as it is with our mirrors almost exactly at the same level as most car mirrors.
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Filtering with a trailer in tow! That's another step up I hadn't thought of! :eek
The STs have enough trouble as it is with our mirrors almost exactly at the same level as most car mirrors.
I must clarify my post... I dont filter with the trailer,, especially in Sydney's traffic. but I have forgotten I have it attached :fp when off on an adventure somewhere.
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Lane filtering in now legal in Qld.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-road-rules/Motorcycle-road-rules.aspx (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queensland-road-rules/Motorcycle-road-rules.aspx) :nahnah :hatwave :runyay ++ :clap :thumbsup
and video to explain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=hJaXE191nj4&x-yt-ts=1421914688&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=hJaXE191nj4&x-yt-ts=1421914688&feature=player_embedded)
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Now the education begins
Cars need to know that they need to allow the space up the centre to make this work properly. Cars in the outer lanes need to hug the outside
"We Welcome You To Join Us" - Lane Filtering Now Legal in QLD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCfvBqClWZc#ws)
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On the way to work yesterday morning, as I was filtering down the 2.5 metre wide safety lane (road shoulder) at the start of the Gateway Motorway south bound, the big electronic billboard had a big image of a motorcycle with the words "Lane filtering is legal under certain circumstances."
As I was riding very safely at less than 30 km/h and more than 2 metres from completely stationary , I gave the sign a very big thumbs up.
I got to work in 45 minutes, Truck drivers had said they had been stuck in that jam for over 2 hours.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 8 using Tapatalk.
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(road shoulder)
I thought you could only filter down the centre (white line)... *re-reads*
:o
This is a game changer. They should make this shoulder lane a dedicated bike lane
Riding on the road shoulder on a motorcycle in Queensland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-YJw6-Sshk#ws)
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Bicycle storage areas
All motorcycle riders will be able to enter a bicycle storage area as long as they give way to any cyclists or motorcycle riders who are already there. This will allow them to move quickly and safely away from other traffic.
What's a Bike storage area?
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Just in front of the solid white line. Must give way to bicycles etc and be mindful of pedestrians etc.
"Bicycle storage areas
A bicycle storage area is a section of the road, close to an intersection with traffic lights, where you can wait (for the traffic lights to change) in front of the stopped motor vehicles. They are usually painted green with white bicycle symbols. Cyclists and motorcycle riders are allowed to cross the first stop line to enter the bicycle storage area but must stop at the second stop line at a red traffic light. Motor vehicles, other than motorcycles, must stop at the first stop line.
Cyclists are not required to enter a bicycle storage area from a bicycle lane.
When you use a bicycle storage area, you must:
give way to anyone that is already in the bicycle storage area
give way to any vehicle entering the area when there is a green or yellow light in front of the bicycle storage area."
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(road shoulder)
I thought you could only filter down the centre (white line)... *re-reads*
:o
This is a game changer. They should make this shoulder lane a dedicated bike lane
Riding on the road shoulder on a motorcycle in Queensland ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-YJw6-Sshk#ws[/url])
REMEMBER 90km/h zone or more. Highway, motorway kind of road. Not a street in a built up area with limit <90.
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Just in front of the solid white line. Must give way to bicycles etc and be mindful of pedestrians etc.
"Bicycle storage areas
A bicycle storage area is a section of the road, close to an intersection with traffic lights, where you can wait (for the traffic lights to change) in front of the stopped motor vehicles. They are usually painted green with white bicycle symbols. Cyclists and motorcycle riders are allowed to cross the first stop line to enter the bicycle storage area but must stop at the second stop line at a red traffic light. Motor vehicles, other than motorcycles, must stop at the first stop line.
Don't think I've ever seen one... or cared enough to notice
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Just in front of the solid white line. Must give way to bicycles etc and be mindful of pedestrians etc.
"Bicycle storage areas
A bicycle storage area is a section of the road, close to an intersection with traffic lights, where you can wait (for the traffic lights to change) in front of the stopped motor vehicles. They are usually painted green with white bicycle symbols. Cyclists and motorcycle riders are allowed to cross the first stop line to enter the bicycle storage area but must stop at the second stop line at a red traffic light. Motor vehicles, other than motorcycles, must stop at the first stop line.
Cyclists are not required to enter a bicycle storage area from a bicycle lane.
When you use a bicycle storage area, you must:
give way to anyone that is already in the bicycle storage area
give way to any vehicle entering the area when there is a green or yellow light in front of the bicycle storage area."
Further information
Motorcycle riders in bicycle storage areas and bicycle lanes
Motorcycle riders are now allowed to enter bicycle storage areas (the areas of road close to an intersection with traffic lights that allows cyclists to wait in front of vehicles stopped at the intersection, and usually painted green with white bicycle symbols). This will allow them to move quickly and safely away from traffic.
Motorcycle riders are not allowed to ride in bicycle lanes in normal circumstances. However, all vehicles, including motorcycles, can travel for up to 50m in a bicycle lane in various special circumstances, such as to stop or park in the lane, to enter or leave a road, or to avoid an obstruction.
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What's a Bike storage area?
Something we don't have in SA.
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What's a Bike storage area?
Something we don't have in SA.
It's the rectangle of green bicycle lane that extends a metre or two in front of the vehicle stop line (which 50% of drivers ignore and roll a half car length over).
Being in that box makes you more obvious to the driver in the left lane. If she/he beats you off the lights then, it's more shame on you!!
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It's the rectangle of green bicycle lane that extends a metre or two in front of the vehicle stop line (which 50% of drivers ignore and roll a half car length over).
Being in that box makes you more obvious to the driver in the left lane. If she/he beats you off the lights then, it's more shame on you!!
In SA the cycle stop line is the same as the normal lanes........as usual that only applies to those cyclists who actually stop for a red light or the ones that don't ride on the footpath (they still think they're 12 and under).
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Here is an expert filtering on the ST13 on the M6 in England - still looks awkward and cumbersome - but he gets through....
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY4iO_xJBIs#)
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He'd be stretching the 30 kph limit permitted and the definition of "stationary, or nearly stationary" under Australian laws. The 40 miles per hour variable speed signs would suggest the freely moving traffic might be up to 60 or more kph.
For me, the problem is dem damn mirrors! >:()
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Every time he gets so close to a moving vehicle he risks becoming squished. I hope he has something really useful to do with the time he saves.
Phil
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Every time he gets so close to a moving vehicle he risks becoming squished. I hope he has something really useful to do with the time he saves.
Phil
Filtering is part of their rider training course plus drivers are educated (generally) to watch out for bikes and let them through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ed_qbSJsg4# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ed_qbSJsg4#)
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The fish eye lens makes it look tighter and worse then it is.
It looked a little tighter than my daily commute on the Gateway.
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Some spots are just to tight for me....if I have to stay in traffic then so be it..... I have used the outside strip but very concerned about my tyres when and if I do..
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Hi Terry, sorry mate wasn't having a go at you. I was talking in general.
In heavy traffic will do the same if it's safe to do so, and I feel the drivers around me are a risk. It depends on the road, and conditions. For instance I would always split and get to the front heading north from Abbortsford Rd and into Sandgate Rd through Albion, because you can't be hit by a bad merger when you are in front of them.
It's a bit like speeding, we all go that little bit over the limit at times, and if we happen to get caught, cop it on the chin. On the highway by myself, I'll regulary sit a metre or two behind a vehicle until I'm seen in the mirrors, then accelarate past them. During this manouvre I'm usually going 10-20 km above the limit, before resuming my cruising speed. Whilst this keeps me safer on the road, being 'away' from drivers not looking out, I can still be booked. A risk I'm willing to take.
If we get caught filtering, we need to cop it on the chin, unless we think we have a good case to plead :grin
Lane filtering rules
Lane filtering is when you ride your motorcycle at low speed between stationary or slow moving vehicles travelling in the same direction you are.
You're only allowed to lane filter in Queensland if you hold an open licence for the motorcycle you are riding and:
your speed when filtering is 30km/h or less
it's safe to do so.
You're not allowed to lane filter:
at a speed more than 30km/h
in school zones during school zone hours
if you're a learner or provisional licence holder
if it isn't safe.
To ensure pedestrian safety, lane filtering is only allowed between stationary or slow moving vehicles, not between a vehicle and the kerb. Any vehicle, including a motorcycle may overtake to the left of a stationary vehicle. Read more about overtaking to the left. :blu13left
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The fish eye lens makes it look tighter and worse then it is.
It looked a little tighter than my daily commute on the Gateway.
:blu13 Rules for riding on road shoulders
If you hold an open licence for the motorcycle you are riding, you can ride on road shoulders and in emergency stopping lanes on major roads—such as highways, freeways and motorways past stationary or slow moving traffic if:
the speed limit is 90km/h or more
your speed is 30km/h or less
you give way to cyclists or other motorcycle riders already using the shoulder
it is safe to do so
you are not riding on any unsealed parts of the road.
Road shoulders are the sealed area to the left or right of a road's edge line. :grin :blu13left
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Every time he gets so close to a moving vehicle he risks becoming squished. I hope he has something really useful to do with the time he saves.
Phil
Filtering is part of their rider training course plus drivers are educated (generally) to watch out for bikes and let them through.
! No longer available ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ed_qbSJsg4#[/url])
:blu13 Motorcycle control rules
You must stay in control of your motorcycle at all times. You must sit with 1 leg on either side of your seat at all times when riding a motorcycle, but you can lift your leg from the footrests if you need to while riding.
Pillion passenger rules
A motorcycle passenger that sits behind the rider is called a pillion passenger.
You must only carry a passenger on a motorcycle if you:
hold a provisional or open licence for the class of motorcycle you are riding
and
you have held that licence for at least 1 year.
You must not carry pillion passengers, including your supervisor, at any time, if you hold a:
class RE learner licence
class RE provisional or open licence, but are riding a class R motorcycle in order to learn to ride that class of vehicle.
You must also not carry a pillion passenger for the first 12 months of holding a class RE or R provisional or open licence.
Rules for carrying passengers on any motorcycle
All of your passengers must wear an approved motorcycle helmet securely fastened.
Pillion passengers must be at least 8 years old and their feet must be able to reach the passenger footrests while seated.
You must not carry more passengers on the motorcycle or in the motorcycle's sidecar than the vehicle was designed to carry.
Your passenger must be seated safely on the pillion seat or in the sidecar.
Your pillion passenger must not ride on the motorcycle unless the motorcycle has a suitable pillion seat and suitable passenger footrests.
Your pillion passenger must face forwards and sit with a leg on either side of the seat, but is allowed to move a leg off the footrests to stretch or raise themselves from the seat.
Your passenger must not interfere with your effective control of the motorcycle. :thumbsup :blu13left
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The fish eye lens makes it look tighter and worse then it is.
It looked a little tighter than my daily commute on the Gateway.
:blu13 Rules for riding on road shoulders
If you hold an open licence for the motorcycle you are riding, you can ride on road shoulders and in emergency stopping lanes on major roads—such as highways, freeways and motorways past stationary or slow moving traffic if:
the speed limit is 90km/h or more
your speed is 30km/h or less
you give way to cyclists or other motorcycle riders already using the shoulder
it is safe to do so
you are not riding on any unsealed parts of the road.
Road shoulders are the sealed area to the left or right of a road's edge line. :grin :blu13left
And the fine for exceeding the 30 km/h limit is $345 and 3 points. :law
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:blu13 You can download the Queensland Road Rules (PDF, 2.7MB) for more information on rules affecting motorcycles. :thumbsup :blu13
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The fish eye lens makes it look tighter and worse then it is.
It looked a little tighter than my daily commute on the Gateway.
:blu13 Rules for riding on road shoulders
If you hold an open licence for the motorcycle you are riding, you can ride on road shoulders and in emergency stopping lanes on major roads—such as highways, freeways and motorways past stationary or slow moving traffic if:
the speed limit is 90km/h or more
your speed is 30km/h or less
you give way to cyclists or other motorcycle riders already using the shoulder
it is safe to do so
you are not riding on any unsealed parts of the road.
Road shoulders are the sealed area to the left or right of a road's edge line. :grin :blu13left
And the fine for exceeding the 30 km/h limit is $345 and 3 points. :law
YES! that's why at 30kph, i select 1st gear :like
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:blu13left http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/motorcycle/index.html#filtering (http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/motorcycle/index.html#filtering) :blu13left :law :cop :-++
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Could'nt be bothered checking earlier posts...but nearly all states have adopted the same rules & NSW has done this advisory clip...
https://youtu.be/kWh0t1fX_EY
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Not WA but.
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Every time he gets so close to a moving vehicle he risks becoming squished. I hope he has something really useful to do with the time he saves.
Phil
Filtering is part of their rider training course plus drivers are educated (generally) to watch out for bikes and let them through.
! No longer available ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ed_qbSJsg4#[/url])
:blu13 Motorcycle control rules
You must stay in control of your motorcycle at all times. You must sit with 1 leg on either side of your seat at all times when riding a motorcycle, but you can lift your leg from the footrests if you need to while riding.
Pillion passenger rules
A motorcycle passenger that sits behind the rider is called a pillion passenger.
You must only carry a passenger on a motorcycle if you:
hold a provisional or open licence for the class of motorcycle you are riding
and
you have held that licence for at least 1 year.
You must not carry pillion passengers, including your supervisor, at any time, if you hold a:
class RE learner licence
class RE provisional or open licence, but are riding a class R motorcycle in order to learn to ride that class of vehicle.
You must also not carry a pillion passenger for the first 12 months of holding a class RE or R provisional or open licence.
Rules for carrying passengers on any motorcycle
All of your passengers must wear an approved motorcycle helmet securely fastened.
Pillion passengers must be at least 8 years old and their feet must be able to reach the passenger footrests while seated.
You must not carry more passengers on the motorcycle or in the motorcycle's sidecar than the vehicle was designed to carry.
Your passenger must be seated safely on the pillion seat or in the sidecar.
Your pillion passenger must not ride on the motorcycle unless the motorcycle has a suitable pillion seat and suitable passenger footrests.
Your pillion passenger must face forwards and sit with a leg on either side of the seat, but is allowed to move a leg off the footrests to stretch or raise themselves from the seat.
Your passenger must not interfere with your effective control of the motorcycle. :thumbsup :blu13left
The above doesn't apply to the two UK clips posted which my comment was in relation too.
Just for interest - Pillion rules in SA aren't that strict. While on L plates we can have a pillion if they are a Qualified Driving Instructor (a Qualified Supervising Rider is a pillion passenger that holds an unconditional motorcycle licence for the preceding two years) http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/learners-permit (http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/learners-permit)
No restriction on having a pillion when you move on to R-date licence http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/r-date-class+ (http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/r-date-class+)
Open or R Class http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/r-class (http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-motorcycle-licence/r-class)
Only one pillion passenger may be carried and then only if the bike is fitted with proper footrests and seating
pillion passengers must always sit astride the seat facing forwards and with both feet on the footrests - See more at: http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/the-drivers-handbook/motorcycles#sthash.3Lx0Gt0C.dpuf (http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/the-drivers-handbook/motorcycles#sthash.3Lx0Gt0C.dpuf) Don't think SA has implemented the newer rider rules to apply to pillions yet.