OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rooster on November 21, 2012, 07:55:51 PM
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Its been some 22years since the ST1100 came out. Then the new ST1300 hit the streets approximately 12 years ago. What's Honda going to do with the ST line? Release an St1600? Kill it off to have it replaced by the VF1200 with a tiny 18 liter tank? Is there a new ST Comming and if so when, or are we the last of a breed?
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Everyone agrees Honda had better come out with something soon, because its competitors are sure moving into the next generation of technical development with features like cruise control as standard.
It's what has happened to cars- base models now have ABS, electric windows, bluetooth etc etc.
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Its up to Honda. They have dragged the chain with an ST replacement. The VFR1200 motor and drivetrain went in the Crosstourer first as I suppose they thought the dual purpose market was bigger. BMW, Triumph, Yamaha and Kawasaki have evolved alot.
On the positive side, for those of us who keep bikes for a long time, Honda did too good a job on the STs, as many of us have no reason to change - we have done the maintenance, done the modifications and are now waiting to wear them out. Anything newer would have to make a compelling case for the changeover $$$ - if you can get a great ST13 for $10,000 why would you want to spend an extra $15,000 - best to put that towards another toy :)
If new was what I wanted, an ST13 with the basics compared to a Triumph Trophy with virtually all I wanted built in standard for around the same price makes it hard to stick with Honda.
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Saaz, how right you are, Honda really failed in implementing the "Planned Obsolescence" concept, they made a pair of bikes that are dammed nigh bullet-proof, just look at some of the ridiculously high mileage 1100's still pounding the pavements happily. However unless they do something spectacular to keep die-hards like us riding their machines then the bells and whistles now fitted as standard on other makes must win riders away from them. And the VFR 1200 is an ugly brute with no range and no class.
Long live the ST's and when mine finally dies, if I'm still fit enough to walk, then I think about what to get next!
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I think there will be a booming market in mobility scooter farkles. I bet mine will have the best lights and go like stink.
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Saaz,
You may well have good lights on that MobScooter, but you wont be able to get away, cos the battery will go flat in 10 min. Now a little trailer wtha honda gen onthe back to recharge as you go, that is a farkle.
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What size auxilliary fuel tank would I need :think1
Saaz,
You may well have good lights on that MobScooter, but you wont be able to get away, cos the battery will go flat in 10 min. Now a little trailer wtha honda gen onthe back to recharge as you go, that is a farkle.
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Nothing on the horizon so it seems
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/2013-motorcycle-models.htm (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/2013-motorcycle-models.htm)
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Just to stir the pot, :) the ST1100 was the prototype, and the ST1300 is the finished product :thumb, why would you need a replacement. :grin
On a serious note, I can see new ST1300's with more bells and whistles like the Goldwings have evolved, as standard.
Possibly down the track, a 1000 or 1200 turbo diesel. (as fuel becomes dearer/more scarce)
What ever it is, it will be interesting to see.
Cheers,
Gary
:blu13left
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Honda has been developing the dual clutch technology to suit fuel efficient cars (manual efficiency but auto advantages) so it is not impossible that an ST replacement would have integrated DCT, as would the next generation goldwing. Yamaha are still persisting with their simplified version of an auto gearbox on the FJR, as only certain options are available on the auto version.
Honda putting out a bagger goldwing shows that market priorities rule. Honda used to lead with technology and new ideas, and now seem to be following the europeans whose industry Honda nearly killed off years ago..how ironic!
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New remodelled goldwing announced to supplement the current Goldwing fleet.
http://world.honda.com/news/2012/2121113EICMA2012/photo/index.html (http://world.honda.com/news/2012/2121113EICMA2012/photo/index.html)
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Oh God, that looks horrible!!!
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It's a goldwing F6B F6 is for flat 6 and the B is for Bagger. The website states that because of the popularity of the people stripping down large tourers into the Bagger style they have produced one...
Yep damn ugly I reckon, I'd rather the full goldie if I had the dough ray me..
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Dual clutch looks interesting. Automatic/Manual.
http://world.honda.com/EICMA2012/DualClutchTransmission/video01/index.html (http://world.honda.com/EICMA2012/DualClutchTransmission/video01/index.html)
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Pretty bl00dy fugly if you ask me. Wouldn't catch me near one! I'll keep the ST11 til it dies thanks.....
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Pretty bl00dy fugly if you ask me. Wouldn't catch me near one! I'll keep the ST11 til it dies thanks.....
It's not something I'd put my money into...
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can you picture the touring distance and towing capacity of a Turbo Diesel Goldwing? and not that ugly thing, reminds me of a Victory, ugly american piece of Cr@p.
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can you picture the touring distance and towing capacity of a Turbo Diesel Goldwing? and not that ugly thing, reminds me of a Victory, ugly american piece of Cr@p.
Well my 2.0 litre Turbo Diesel VW car with a 6 speed DSG gearbox uses less than 5.0 litres / 100 km, so I can imagine a bike which is considerably lighter, coupled with a a similar gearbox technology would get phenomenal range and be quite quick off the mark. The torque is astounding.
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I have often pondered why there are quite a few small cars, auto, air conditioning , carry 4 people and weighs considerably more than my beloved ST1300, can return fuel consumption figures, equal to and better than the ST.
Why is it so ?
Skip.
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Evenin' All...
Its been some 22years since the ST1100 came out. Then the new ST1300 hit the streets approximately 12 years ago. What's Honda going to do with the ST line? Release an St1600? Kill it off to have it replaced by the VF1200 with a tiny 18 liter tank? Is there a new ST Coming and if so when, or are we the last of a breed?
...Well, the answer to this question can easily (I think), be found in the question "Why did the ST1100 come about in the first place" :think1...and the answer as I understand, is "because of a the Beemer K100" In other words there was in the late 80's a market gap that Honda decided to fill that was dominated by BMW, hence the 'Pan European' badge.
It was successful for over a decade and received few upgrades limited to brakes and consequently electrics to accommodate the brake upgrades. So successful, that arguably caused not only BMW to raise the bar and to keep raising the bar, but challenged other manufacturers that we see today :popcorn.
The ST1300 is no more than a revamp of the 1100 :'(.
Whereas in the late 80's the 1100 took the fight up to and beyond the competition at that time, the 1300, when introduced in 2002 was playing catch up to the Yamaha FJR1300 et al . And to make matters worse, the 1300 has checkered history of both factory faults / recalls and handling issues :eek.
So now in 2012..."what's the competition like in the big tourer market now?"...a whole lot more than what it was in 1988/89 that's for sure :runyay
Just a thought,
Coin, the can :)
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Hey Skip..............I don't know what you're getting but I've averaged 20.6kl per litre over the last 22,000kls. If my calculations are correct that's better than 5litres per 100kls (around 4.85) and I don't know too many cars that can come near that. Could be that most of my riding is on country roads. That's not to say of course that there have been massive improvements made in recent years to fuel consumption in motor vehicles.
I have often pondered why there are quite a few small cars, auto, air conditioning , carry 4 people and weighs considerably more than my beloved ST1300, can return fuel consumption figures, equal to and better than the ST.
Why is it so ?
Skip.
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Hey Skip..............I don't know what you're getting but I've averaged 20.6kl per litre over the last 22,000kls. If my calculations are correct that's better than 5litres per 100kls (around 4.85) and I don't know too many cars that can come near that. Could be that most of my riding is on country roads. That's not to say of course that there have been massive improvements made in recent years to fuel consumption in motor vehicles.
I have often pondered why there are quite a few small cars, auto, air conditioning , carry 4 people and weighs considerably more than my beloved ST1300, can return fuel consumption figures, equal to and better than the ST.
Why is it so ?
Skip.
can you picture the touring distance and towing capacity of a Turbo Diesel Goldwing? and not that ugly thing, reminds me of a Victory, ugly american piece of Cr@p.
Well my 2.0 litre Turbo Diesel VW car with a 6 speed DSG gearbox uses less than 5.0 litres / 100 km, so I can imagine a bike which is considerably lighter, coupled with a a similar gearbox technology would get phenomenal range and be quite quick off the mark. The torque is astounding.
Seriously, we recently did a trip to Rockhampton and back in the EOS and averaged 4.8 l/100 km (Turbo Diesel 2.0 litre). Three adults on the way up two on the way back. It is very close to the figures I get on the ST on trip over the same distance. Around town it climbs to around 6, which is also the same as I get with the ST. I'm more impressed then I expected to be, because it is a motor with lots of torque.
That's why I can see Diesel powered bikes in the future as fuel prices rise. There are already Diesel bikes on the market in Europe, but not in ST format (yet).
I think you might find this an interesting link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_motorcycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_motorcycle)
This link is quite interesting: http://www.dieselbike.net/commercialdevelopment/commercialdevelopment.htm (http://www.dieselbike.net/commercialdevelopment/commercialdevelopment.htm)
And yet another: http://www.startwin.com/paginas/specials_plaatjes/thunderstar/artikel%20ingenieur/motorEN.pdf (http://www.startwin.com/paginas/specials_plaatjes/thunderstar/artikel%20ingenieur/motorEN.pdf) This ones fuel economy is 2.5 litres / 100km. :grin
Cheers,
Gadget
:blu13left
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All sounds good. But the Dutch bike at 2.5lt/100 is in step through comsumption territory (18lt tank = 720km). :thumbs Would have thought that they would have run more than 16:1 comp ratio, even with turbo. Most turbo tractors run up 22:1 with no problems, more comp = more heat = better fuel burn = more torque. :)
Had an interesting conversation with a car dealer who sells Diesel cars and he was saying that Renault, who own the patent on the high pressure common rail injection system, are dropping Diesel research and going back to petrol as they cannot make Diesels pass the new regulations that come into force in Europe in 2015.
Have to chuckle at the exhaust 'filter' systems. It holds all the particles until full, and then dumps then onto the road. Ever been travelling behind one of the new Euro Diesels and copped a cloud of soot? :crazy That's the new filter at work. About as silly as air pumps on '80s Commodores, they just put fresh air into the exhaust the dilute the meter readings at pipe end. :-(((
:bl11
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Hey Skip..............I don't know what you're getting but I've averaged 20.6kl per litre over the last 22,000kls. If my calculations are correct that's better than 5litres per 100kls (around 4.85) and I don't know too many cars that can come near that. Could be that most of my riding is on country roads. That's not to say of course that there have been massive improvements made in recent years to fuel consumption in motor vehicles.
Hey Couch. I hadn't re-set my consumption meter for about 3 years, maybe more, and the average over that time was 5.6ltr/100k. I'm not a fastidious keeper of stats, unlike some, as I don't care that much. I just think it's interesting that a small car can return figures comparable to a 300kg motorbike. Not that I'm planning on parting with my 300kg motorbike.
Cheers.
Skip.