OzSTOC
General Category => LONG DISTANCE RIDING, Proper preparation, Safety and Tips => Topic started by: Streak on June 03, 2013, 10:11:52 PM
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Hello All,
I am setting about planning my First attempt at a Saddlesore IBA ride (1600km/24hours), and i thought i would do a fairly tried and true route for IBA/FarRiders basically from Toowoomba down the centre, Maitland, back up the coast, through Brisbane and home, have put together a rough track (still working out the stops and the like), as i have ridden these roads a bit and have an idea of the conditions, and the land.
Google Map: http://goo.gl/maps/Xy5q8 (http://goo.gl/maps/Xy5q8)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd499/ozstoc/IronButtRiders_zps68e748ba.gif)
I am pondering advice for this trip, such as 24 hour fuel stops that are better than the others? I am working it all out, and not planning on doing it until probably September at the moment, just looking to get all my ducks in a row....
Will set a point that around Maitland that i will need a Signature from a Willing OzSTOC Member, so will work that in as a mini OzSTOC event to...
Cheers and thanks for any advice
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Will set a point that around Maitland that i will need a Signature from a Willing OzSTOC Member, so will work that in as a mini OzSTOC event to...
Cheers and thanks for any advice
You don't need a witness at your turn-around point, just a Corner Docket. Get a Start and Finish Witness as well as a Start and Finish Docket, collect all your fuel dockets and log them with your ODO. Simple does it.
Don't eat too much. Drink a fair bit. Don't sit down at rest stops. Stand up when doing 50 kph (unless Plod is watching, but you're still legal, just attracting unwanted attention).
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So your planning to ride downhill in the morning and uphill in the evening to get home again :grin
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Posted in FarRiders But I'll post here too. I'm wondering if you should get a corner docket at or very near Loganholm
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What is your preferred start time. That will help others with giving info re fuel stop locations.
Just an observation from my own rides
A midnight start has you going to bed before you would and laying their waiting to get up.
A start at or after 03:00:00 puts you to bed by say 21:00 for 4 or 5 hours sleep and on the road with a short dark time start. Sept will have light by 05:00:00 easy .Also with this S-time I have a normal meal at dinner. A snack about 08:00:00 another about midday and a larger snack before dark to give me some energy.
A start by 05:00:00 puts you in daylight at the other end 24 hrs later and in a better position to collect a finish docket as servos are mostly open by then.
Remember the more towns you go through the more time you use and the less you have as spare.
For a first time out many old hands recommend a route that takes you away from built up areas.
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As a Motorcycle Group we should be encouraging safety and not promoting potentially dangerous practices.
Off to the norty room with you Streak for suggesting something sooo controversial! :spank :rofl
It's going to be cosy in there with another 55,000 IBA Members! :wink1
On a more serious note:
We have worked very hard with our friends on this forum and others to offer a comprehensive resource of knowledge to riders wishing to pursue their passion. Complete boards are dedicated to the safety of riders and those around them looking for information written by experts with plenty of personal experience.
We are lucky enough to have contributions from some of this country's top LD riders, who were happy to share from their own experiences, safety tips and preparations one can make for such endeavours. This also includes roadside maintenance and recovery, tips on dealing with unexpected events from wildlife and other motorists, fatigue and fatigue symptom management, other trials and tribulations of LD touring. The advice on those threads is invaluable for riders looking to try something they've only dreamt of.
The worst thing we can do is make people feel as though they will get negative comments directed at them for being irresponsible. This may make them turn away from the help and expertise offered by their friends on this forum. They will still "go do it" anyway, so we want them to to be prepared in the best possible way.
So, quite the opposite of Sabie's opinion is true. Rather than "promote potentially dangerous practices", we promote the SAFE EXECUTION of our Members' LD rides.
Streak has sought this opinion and is to be commended for it. I encourage EVERYONE to have a look at some of the great advice and tips on offer if you are thinking of a longer ride.
This whole Club's ethos is about getting people out and about on their bikes - let's keep this in mind.
Hope this clears the air Sabie about what we are promoting here.
Cheers, Diesel
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Maybe do something on the way home from Ballarat .... Cause I did Ceduna to Perth cause man I wanted to get home from Middleton.......Got this from the mrs when I walk in the door :spank (no not that type of whip people)so no need for the paper work I just did it for me :thumb
Turtle
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Sabie and I are going to have to snap out of it and stop agreeing with each other- it just ain't natural. :p
Fatigue kills people in every type of human endeavour, virtually always due to inattention or micro-sleeps.
My observation regarding fatigue on the M/C is that its effects are quite different to those experienced by car drivers. The car driver is in a snug lounge chair with little to do but steer, and that very easily. Nodding off, while quite possibly inadvertently accelerating, is almost inevitable.
The motorcyclist, on the other hand, is highly engaged in the motion process, continually required to be alert to every little aspect of the road; its corners, surface irregularities, his own and other vehicle positioning and so on. All that whilst continually fanned by the wind and conscious of every part of his/her body, especially the buttocks after a few hours. The urge to get off the bike becomes compelling and a walk around, snack and drink provides really effective refreshment.
I know what it feels like to be tired on the bike and in the car and I know which is less threatening.
As the Good Book says, "all things in moderation". For riders, "a moderate amount" gradually increments.
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Potentially dangerous practices like....
Hmmmm
Leaving the bike in the shed for months at a time then trying on Valantino's boots just for size one weekend on the Oxley that's a PDP
Or
Just slipping up the inside cos cage has his right blinker on.."he's going right..Right?" wrong......
Or
just one more scooner cos my rooms just round the corner "its not far"...Right?" wrong......
Or
I'll just go get some milk from the shops..."it's not far, its hot ,its a sunny day, I'll only be a minute. NO Gloves, Jacket, Boots and its Friday late afternoon too...Right?' wrong...
Them's dangerous practices.
Doing lots of build up rides and getting ride fit. And I mean 300,400&500k days in advance. Planning your stops to best work with the environment like sun up or down and avoiding looking into the thing for long.
Keeping as much daylight as you can in known roo country..
Being relaxed and well rested before kick off...
Acknowledging any weakness in the plan or the training before you make a move on the ride...AND making a change to that plan.
AND
Remembering you don't get a sheep station for finishing. Its a game, nothing more.
The big thing that's got to be remembered is start the ride on the day that best suits YOU. No big send-off...no fan-fair...no performance pressure nothing.
YOU GO WHEN YOUR READY.
Sabie. FarRiders have over the years clocked up a massive amount of miles doing what they love. Last weekend alone we clocked up across the board over 97.000km in 24 hrs as a group. About 80 riders. One roo strike. No one died or lost a leg. That's bloody good stats. Its even better fact.
Seeing as you attached a link to a guvmant site I'll take it you had your tongue firmly in your cheek.
BUT if not then
I'll offer to train you up, design a route and take you on a FarRide if you like Sabie...just so you see what's involved. I'm very sure after the experience your view will be oh so better informed.
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Maybe do something on the way home from Ballarat .... Cause I did Ceduna to Perth cause man I wanted to get home from Middleton.......Got this from the mrs when I walk in the door :spank (no not that type of whip people)so no need for the paper work I just did it for me :thumb
Turtle
I can understand the wanting to get home thing. Had to do that once myself. Port Hedland back to Adelaide. I just went in and had a look at the fuel usage etc for that trip.
It's only an estimate based on fuel stops each day but day 1....... 1098 kms, day 2.......1045 km, day 3.......1375 kms, day 4 (Xmas Day).......392 kms. Day 3 was the killer and the longest on the road, should have stopped at Ceduna but went on and stopped near Iron Knob. I never touched the bike again until I went back a week later and then added an extra two days for the return trip
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The plan appears to be coming along nicely Streak, and your planed route looks good :thumb
Gatey's suggested start time sounds like it would make a good start to the attempt :clap
Keep us all updated with how your plan progresses :hatwave
AND HAVE FUN :grin :runyay :grin :runyay :grin :runyay :grin
Cheers
Shiney
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The plan appears to be coming along nicely Streak, and your planed route looks good :thumb
Gatey's suggested start time sounds like it would make a good start to the attempt :clap
Keep us all updated with how your plan progresses :hatwave
AND HAVE FUN :grin :runyay :grin :runyay :grin :runyay :grin
Cheers
Shiney
thats the whole idea mate, if i succeed or not, it is more about the fun of having a go!
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Good luck with the ride Dave, anything you need as you pass through just ask........if I am off and you want another bike in your mirror and an encouraging voice in your headset up the New England. :thumbs
Great seeing rule #1 firmly in place...... :clap
:beer
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Good luck with the ride Dave,
ah Dave is not doing this...I am but thank you.... :rofl
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Good luck with the ride Dave,
ah Dave is not doing this...I am but thank you.... :rofl
Well if Graham, Streak or any of their other personalities make the trip let me know mate. :nahnah
:grin :grin
:beer mate enjoy the planning can be nearly as much fun as the ride.....well nearly !!
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Good to see you coming out of the closet at last :hatwave
Anyone who has some doubts about the sanity or safety of such rides should look at all the advice and support from the FarRiding community. Rule number 1 is always to get home safely, even if it means pulling the pin due to safety concerns. Full support is always given for aborted rides, no question. In fact I think it is harder to pull the pin on a ride than continue on regardless, and this is fully recognised.
It is an irony that something like a 2400ks in 36 hours is actually easier to organise as you can pick the safest time to travel.
Anyway, I am off to a FarRide on the weekend (Bargara near Bundaberg), doing a 1200km run in 24 hours finishing at 11.30am on Saturday. I have to do 300kms before starting the 1200km run, and will probably do 500kms or so after the lunch stop. If I had the time I would probably plan a 1600 or 2400, but my expert adviser is away in Queensland with his boat with limited broadband coverage :CB--
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Streak,
Try to avoid Maitland if possible as it is like a major city with too many traffic lights to slow down and put you off you rhythm.
A couple of servos that I have found to be good are at:
Caltex Stanthorpe, New England Hwy. It has a McCafe and gives you a chance to fill up and make Tamworth on by the next refuel stop.
If you can afford the slight 5 minute detour from your indicated route, BP Beresfield, I/S Kinta Dr and Pacific Hwy. This is basically just off the roundabout at the northern end of the Newcastle Expressway. It is a full truckstop with Hungry Jacks, but also has a traditional diner.
Caltex Glenthorne Service Centre, at the Southern offramp to Taree off the Pacific Hwy. Just beside the highway with a number of food outlets
BP Coffs Harbour Southern roundabout on Pacific Hwy. Only Maccas and the usual servo food, but it is clean. Coffs will get you back to Brisbane if your ST1100 will get 400k’s.
Went through Muswellbrook last September and there is a new BP on the right southbound, but not sure if it is 24hour.
Hope this helps a bit.
Sean
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Well, it's my opinion that its potentially dangerous.
Take a look back at what I said..... It's potentially dangerous, that is it has the potential to cause danger. My opinion is based on the fatigue factor in the amount of riding against the amount of rest in a 24 hour period.
Your fatigue factor would be very high to say the least. If you look at the information supplied in my last post, you'll see that fatigue has the same impairment value as alcohol on a rider/driver.
The fact that your concentration is at a higher level while riding a bike will mean your fatigue score will be higher and your reactions will be more impaired. It has nothing to do with the comfort levels afforded in a car. Its about how fatigue effects your ability to function to the level needed to safely operate a motor vehicle of any description.
Again, its my opinion and its an educated opinion. What you do to yourself is your own business, but if you happen to take out someone else particularly innocent road users by your actions which are deemed to be impaired due to your fatigue level in order to "play a game" you got rocks in your head.
If my family were killed or seriously injured by someone playing this "game" heaven help them.
Remember, you're sharing the road... You don't own it.
As I said, its my opinion which I am entitled to have, it may oppose your opinion but so be it. These are the values that make our country great.
Sabie
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And that's the great strength of this club, everyone is entitled to an opinion :thumb
Well said Sabie :thumbsup
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Yep it's like flavours of ice cream.....21 different flavours.....everyone likes a different flavour.
How great that we can all share our opinion here and not be judged for it.
And just as importantly........mmmmmm Ice Cream !!!! :grin
Cheers
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There may be 21 flavours, but there is only one worth having. Rum n raisin.... Not that my daughter will let me have any. :||||
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It's gets my vote aswell, but happy try the other 20 to confirm it. :thumbsup
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There may be 21 flavours, but there is only one worth having. Rum n raisin.... Not that my daughter will let me have any. :||||
:hijacked
Well now the thread is completely hijacked, I'll add that while I like Rum 'n Raisin ice cream, what they sell nowadays is a huge disappointment, tasting like chemicals. Rum 'n Raisin chocolate- now that's still great! :thumbs
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And now back to our regular program
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After having done a few of these (no expert) but.....been there ......done that.......
The SS1600K is one of the easiest. Plenty of time for a mid-ride Siesta if required.
Don't over-plan it...have a rough plan (Toowoomba to Dubbo+a bit and back). Start at A...... at turn around point B, you'll know if your on track or behind. Don't do all the spread sheet bullshit it's just not worth it....unless you can't help being anal!
Do pick the easiest highest MOVING AVERAGE roads....not the coast or near cities....too many slow speed zone to pull down the MA.
I did my SS1600K from Ips to Dubbo and back...had a MA of 100kph (at the speed limit the whole way), easy maths, that's 16 hours of riding with 8 hours to "dick around". Absolute heaps of time up your sleeve for stretches, food and snoozes.
Maybe even Toowoomba to Blackall (don't know the K's ...just saying)...I did my SS2000K for Ipsw to Barcaldine...still with heaps of time up the sleeve.
Just pick the smartest route....not the fanciest...you don't NEED the wigglies on these rides......unless your after HERO status!
Most of all.........Relax.......Don't over think it and enjoy the ride!
Have fun.
P.S. "Plan the ride and ride the plan" that's bullshit too....... spoken by true under-achiever! :rofl :rofl
(or they just have too much time on their hands)
As you've probably gathered......... long distance riding is waaaaay too over-rated!
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Well, it's my opinion that its potentially dangerous.
Take a look back at what I said..... It's potentially dangerous, that is it has the potential to cause danger. My opinion is based on the fatigue factor in the amount of riding against the amount of rest in a 24 hour period.
I'm sorry - but Sabie - your words that members of this group took exception to were.....
As a Motorcycle Group we should be encouraging safety and not promoting potentially dangerous practices.
We work damn hard to do as you requested here and I can't understand where you drew the conclusion that this forum has anything but the complete and utter safety, best interests and friendship of ALL road users as our utmost goal.
Many will find your statement insulting and worthy of rebuke - particularly when the OPPOSITE RESULT is the goal of this forum.
I welcome posts like yours, but please afford me the honour of explaining our situation. In your next post at 17:58hrs, I actually agree with most things you have said, and the article you appraised is based on statistical fact! I only ask that when you marvel at Usain Bolt for doing things you cannot, that the same may go for your friends who can manage a 24hr awake period and safely control a motorcycle for that same period. I am not aware of a single fatality or even injury of anyone attempting an IBA sanctioned/certified ride. Look at the first few paragrapghs of the Archive of Wisdom for dedicated riders.... http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/aowprintout.cfm (http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/aowprintout.cfm)
Let's face it - every time you throw a leg over a bike you increase your chances of demise when compared to sitting on the couch!
We agree with your opinion about heightened fatigue levels, but we should have faith in individuals to pull the pin when they feel the risk level growing from it.
I really, really, REALLY hope his clears the air for anyone thinking about training up to the levels of safe LD riding.
Sabie - I agree with your concerns - just not that we promote potentially dangerous practices.
In saying all this, I'll be the first to buy you a drink at Biloela - cool?
Cheers, Diesel
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I look at it this way:-
Some people walk to work, some people complete walking marathons.
Some people ride the train to work, some people travel across Australia on the train.
Some people drive to work, some people drive across Australia.
Every body starts out at a base level of competence. Sometimes people get a real passion for their activity and plan, train and educate themselves about how they can reach the pinnacle of their chosen activity.
Also everyone has a different tolerance to how far they can go depending on the rest, fuel, workload they give their body.
When I started riding 4 years ago I was flat out riding down the street. Now I can ride 700kms in day with a few stops. I hope one day I will be able to competently ride even further distances safely :thumb
Cheers
:slvr13
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My observation regarding fatigue on the M/C is that its effects are quite different to those experienced by car drivers. The car driver is in a snug lounge chair with little to do but steer, and that very easily. Nodding off, while quite possibly inadvertently accelerating, is almost inevitable.
I know what it feels like to be tired on the bike and in the car and I know which is less threatening.
Couldn't agree more Biggles.
For a long trip when fatigue can/could come into play.....give me the bike any day....just the smell of 3 day old roadkill is enough to keep you awake :eek
The car is just tooooooo comfy for long days.
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....just the smell of 3 day old roadkill is enough to keep you awake :eek
Or you ride past the bloated dead bull/cow beside the road and hoping it stays that way as you ride past.
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As a Motorcycle Group we should be encouraging safety and not promoting potentially dangerous practices.
[url]http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resources/Internet/news%20and%20alerts/campaigns/fatalfive/documents/fatigue_fs.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resources/Internet/news%20and%20alerts/campaigns/fatalfive/documents/fatigue_fs.pdf[/url])
Sabie,
Firstly, thanks for posting up the link on fatigue, I think that every motorcycle rider should read it. Soooo along these lines I would like to take the opportunity to add another link to a document titled Fatigue and Motorcycle Riding by Don Arthur M.D. , Dr. Don Arthur published an article dedicated to Fatigue and Motorcycle Touring. Vice Adm (Dr.) Arthur is a well known Long Distance motorcyclist and the 35th Surgeon General of the U.S. Navy.
http://www.mctourer.com/Safety/fatigue.html (http://www.mctourer.com/Safety/fatigue.html)
I would encourage all motorcyclists to read these documents. Again thanks for highlighting the link :thumbs
Unfortunately, I am unable to see where on this forum you have identified that as a group we are not encouraging safety or where on the forum you have seen the promotion of dangerous practices. Your opinion is noted and thanks for sharing but I disagree.
As a member of the Iron Butt Association (IBA) and a FarRider, I and I would suggest other members of these organisations actually take very seriously the concept of safe, long distance riding. A quote from the IBA web site:
"The 50,000+ members of the Iron Butt Association are dedicated to safe, long-distance motorcycle riding. Although based in the United States, we have thousands of enthusiastic members throughout the globe! "
From the FarRiders web site:
"Please note: We are not about speed-records! Our aim is purely at safe and consistent long distance riding! We will not accept "hoons" or "cowboys"! "
Interestingly I also see a lot of support from this forum promoting safe long distance riding as can be seen from this link:
http://ozstoc.com/index.php?board=48.0 (http://ozstoc.com/index.php?board=48.0) well done QzSTOC on supporting long distance riding :clap
Now you said:
"Take a look back at what I said..... It's potentially dangerous, that is it has the potential to cause danger."
Driving a car, truck, horse and carriage, a motor boat, motorcycle...the list goes on, has the potential to cause danger....you are correct. Are you willing to stop riding your motorcycle as it and you have the potential to cause danger? I think not.
To me, long distance riding is my sport. I train, I learn as much as I can about myself, my motorcycle, about fatigue management, about nutrition and how it can assist in fatigue management, about what I can do with my motorcycle to assist in minimising fatigue, about hydration to assist in fatigue management, about planning a ride to assist in fatigue management, about the type of gear I ride in and how it can assist in fatigue management...have i mentioned fatigue management?
There are numerous resources regarding long distance riding all worth the read, if you so desire and I would encourage anyone attempting this sport to educate themselves by reading and re reading the material available. Then when you have read the material, hop onto sites like the IBA, FarRiders or OzSTOC and learn some more about safe long distance riding by reading their exploits and asking questions.
All in all Sabie I appreciate that you have raised your opinion that this forum is not encouraging safety and that the forum is promoting potentially dangerous practices, well mate, I disagree. I believe that OzSTOC does encourage safe long distance riding and that there is no promotion of potentially dangerous practices. This is of course is my opinion and I thank you for letting me share it.
....and if I go to Biloela I will be the second to by you a drink :beer
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Well I have to say to everyone, I am very proud of all of your posts as i have been reading this discussion, it has been mature, upbeat, and feels like we are all sitting around a table having a quiet beer having a good chat.
We can all agree to disagree in what we think about long distance riding, I think Sabie has an excellent point about setting the example for OzSTOC, and who we are, and he has posted very valid points to do with fatigue management.
Diesel & TJ also raise excellent points about testing yourself, and trying something different, which is want I am intending to do.
Farriders & and the IBA do their level best to fly under the radar, as they are always mindful of people getting the wrong impression, and also not understanding the preparation, planning & practice that goes into what they do.
We have a strong relationship with Farriders, being that both clubs share a large number of our member base, we actively promote upcoming farrides around the country, and will continue to do so, just like we promote Ulysses AGM, and various other events that OzSTOC members attend.
If someone is looking for advice on doing a long distance ride, regardless of the reasons why, we will not stop someone from posting and asking the question, as that would not be doing the right thing, as we have a wealth of experience in this club that will help people do things safely and help them decide if they want to go ahead with it, which is what I am doing, deciding how and if I would do it.
There is nothing more important than getting home safe and sound, and that message above all is what is playing out of this conversation, and should not get lost at anytime.
Cheers
Streak (Graham)
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Well said Streak. :thumb
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I'm not a FarRider or IBA guy but I thought I'd put forward my thoughts and little experience on this subject.
I ride almost every day but most of the time it is very short distances.
Last year the furthest I had ridden was 500 km in a day and at the end of that I was a wreck (very fatigued) and so when I decided to ride to SA for the national rally I was aware that I couldn't ride very far before I started to feel the effects of fatigue.
So to improve my energy levels and distance I could travel before I started to feel fatigue I started to train myself. :blu13
I started riding longer and longer distances until I was able to ride the 500 km without feeling fatigued at the end. (I started at 200km and worked up from there 50 or 100km each time)
By the end of the rally (Last day heading home) I rode 1000km and amazingly I wasn't fatigued.
So as I see it (and have experienced it) through training and proper breaks I believe LD riding can be done very safely. :runyay
And I already owe Sabie a Canadian Club and Coke at the next rally (he beet me to 1000 posts :grin) at this rate mate you wont have to by any drinks :eek :beer :grin
Cheers
Shiney
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:thumb :grin :thumb :grin :thumb
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Mate, I am sure I did not miss the point that you thought you were alluding to, as i agree with you that fatigue kills. What has been missing is what we do to manage this killer. I notice you raise another very good point that some businesses have picked up on using a fatigue calculator so please do not forget that people also start to drive or ride when they are already fatigued. This is why it is so imperative that we all understand what this is about and how we manage it.
So sorry Sabie, I did not miss the point.
What stood out in my mind was your opinion of this forum.
I worked at a place that had a motto, "Knowledge dispels fear" I kinda like it, and think it is self explanatory.
:beer
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Very informative absorbing both sides of this debat, both camps have some points worthwhile adding to my knowledge pool on this subject.
In my professional life I manage my Fatigue on more working days than many people. A combination of succesive rostered shifts with on-call between all of them for between 7 and 10 days straight equates to Fatigue Managment and Mitigation being apart of our family life.
Whilst I agree that Fatigue is a threat, I would suggest from experience that it's ACCUMULATIVE Fatigue that is the real issue.
As an novice FarRider I can atest to being more relaxed, capable and situational aware during a FarRide than at any other unplanned event that has the potential to become an issue.
A long distance ride.....and in this case a FarRide or IBA is a ride that is planned, calculated and prepared for well in advance of the actual once off event you develop a holistic approach to your preparation of mind, body and equipment. This includes short term lifestyle changes, correct sustenance and quality uninterrupted rest.
Accumulative Fatigue is a far greater issue that has more potential to become life threatening to you or those about you in any situation not managed correctly. This form of Fatigue becomes an issue when constantly backing up day after day with out repaying the rest/sleep depravasion debt.
I can assure you, with the amount of time I spend on the road at all hours, I feel far more at peace when travelling either with work or the family, passing a prepared FarRider coming to the end of a Saddlsore 1600km at 0100 in the morning than a working mum who bundles her tired, wingeing children into the family Tarago on a friday night after a herendous working week to drive from Sydney to Brisbane over a long weekend. :fp
Anyway my informed 2cents worth, don't worry Sabie I still feel the love..... :-++
:beer everyone
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Now we're heading back on track, another bit of advice I'd add is the adage
"Sugar Makes You Sleepy".
There's an article on it I read somewhere. :grin
My choice of road snacks includes roasted almonds. I gave Diesel and saaz a taste of these at Middleton.
I buy the blanched almonds from Coles and roast them to my taste (180o for 30 minutes).
And no, Streak, Choc Coated Scorched Almonds don't count!!
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This has been a very thoughtful and informative discussion and I admire Sabie for expressing his opinions on this subject and holding to his beliefs. Personally I have no desire to complete these LD runs and although I do not believe we promote unsafe practices , I believe Sabie made a very well structured argument and many valid points.
Rob
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agreed :crackup
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May I just add a little bit?
The words 'common' sense come into play with anyone who rides, or drives.
I have a mate who rode his bike straight into the side of a crew cab ute, basically because he 'had the right of way', and the other guy broke the law and usurped his right of way. My mate wrists are still useless, and his career as a male nurse is at an end. The bikes gone, as he has no strength in his wrists to operate it. A killer of an attitude he displayed did it.
He was upset when I told him he was 80% to blame, because he asserted attitude of arrogance, over an attitude of humility in common sense. You ride a bike - you drive everything around you.
We all know being 'in the right' means zip outside a court room. Yelling abuse, in a headset at someone else who asserted unrighteous lack of grace, or illegality in front of you, and backing off is the only way to 'go home safely.' If you can't do that, then get off the bike - you're going to die if you don't.
This common sense applies to long distance riding. Meeting a challenge properly prepped up for it is cool. At the end of the day it's ' Challenge met - challenge owned !!!' Home safely.
I've had 28+ years on the highway, mainly long distance. 16 years out of Perth, where every trip is a 'Far ride.' Year 28 was just as dangerous as year one. You go home safely if you leave home safely prepared. My last job was 81 tonne road train, Brisbane, Tully, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, twice a month. 12,600 kms per trip, under satellite track and fatigue management, all quite legally.
I used to come home tired, but not stuffed because I planned each leg before I started the leg. That's the second consideration. Planning and preparation for the ride. And check you own health as well. If you feel crappy - don't go.
The common thread is do it safely, and come home and post a brag.
I've riden a 650 ex W.A. Police Yamaha back to Bris from Perth, and I can think of few things in my life that were so much fun. CANNOT wait to do it, and more, again.
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Anyone wanting to get serious about Long Distance Riding might like to take notes from this bike in this year's Iron Butt Rally that commence at midnight tonight.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Pixtor/IBRbikesetup_em_zpsfc4046ff.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Pixtor/media/IBRbikesetup_em_zpsfc4046ff.jpg.html)
and that's just the front end! There's lots more at the back of these bikes, mostly radios and fuel cells.
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So Streak Did you end up getting time for this ride yet or have I missed it in another part of the forum?
I've just completed another 1600 documented and one just for the play a couple of weeks back going to the Overland corner lunch then stacked another on the back of that day running into the next.
After reading all this thread again I noticed no one had made mention of just how long a 1600 takes or how it can be broken up. Indeed how the distance is covered in adequate time and with rest.
Most of the time If the weather is fine and not at either extreme then doing the trip in one stint is my MO. Say depart at 04:00 should see the trip finished by 23:30 subject to stopped times.
That's 191/2 hours all up for everything me or the bike needs in the day. Lets put it another way. A work day might start at 05:00 out of bed.and finish at typically into bed by 22:30. That's 17.5 hours. The bike trip is only two hours longer and I'm not sure about your work but mine is much harder than the time I spend on a bike. Reasoning says I'm in a better way on the bike than working.
Now with 19,1/2 hours of fuels and feed stops and riding I'm still 4.5 hrs in the black. So clearly I'm not riding the bike for a full 24 hours for 1600 K's. Even a 2000 doesn't use all the 24 hours.
The second trip, the one after lunch saw me all the way to Melrose then parked up in Robe all the way south for a few hour's SLEEP. Then A second stage to finish the ride of 1612 K's using all the 24 hours.
See sleep for a few hours is more than doable on a1600. I've done it a few times that way for any number of reasons and still done the distance and in the time. And without fatigue even getting a chance to start.
I've also pulled the pin a few times too. And that's what needs to be remembered in all this. You can just stop all together or just for a bit.
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That last point about pulling the pin on a ride is well worth repeating. I think anyone who makes that decision deserves more credit than if they try and continue on when they should not.
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Too true Saaz
I think I've done the push on mindset, the pull the pin and stop set and the pull the pin and rest for an hour or so then "toured"the rest of the planned route too.
The first was a matter of still going OK but not being confident for a bit about the success or otherwise of the trip to that point Hence why guys like to use a GPS. Deal in facts not the wotif's. Self doubt and wotifs are distracting unless you grab the thing by the small bits and just get that stage into better perspective.
Pull the pin and stop the ride is the defining end of the ride. Get a room and shower up, take a light meal and sleep. Start the next day fresh and design a new plan that is not on the clock.
Pull the pin and tour the route is different. Its about recognising the ride or route are no longer fun and present unacceptable risk to push on, both mentally and in the physical form too. It's more mental to just pull up at the next town or feature and rest up rethink the ride into a less stressful thing. After all this should not be let get to a stress thing but supposed to be fun. If the fun starts going out then I stop and re evaluate how I've been going and then restart without any further documentation at all. I throw out everything doc's wise at that point into a bin.
On occasion I've had a spell then gone on to finish the route and taken heaps of pics and stopped for a nice meal or looked in a gallery or whatever and got to the end of the route with time. So what?
I got a ride anyway and maybe had a nice look about without the attendant performance pressure.
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Even a 2000 doesn't use all the 24 hours.
That's one of the harder ones to do. As I found going to Middleton, it's 23.5 hours with only rest stops. A power-nap at 20 hours will see you through, but you need all the 110 kay roads you can find. Plan A was to stay on the South East freeway from Tailem Bend to the Strathalbyn turn-off, then finish at Strathalbyn. A check on the time at Tailem Bend made the Wellington Ferry feasible and hence Middleton became the end of the challenge at 2042 km.
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STreak just get physically and mentally ready for it. Get off the turps, drugs and coffee leading up to it. Get a couple of good nights sleep and ride your chosen route. Don't fart about early in the ride i.e. Bank some k's and as much time as you can. Don't talk to weirdos in servos, don't tell anyone what you are doing. Just stay focused and keep your stops as short as humanly possible. That way you'll be banking time for more rest/stops later in the ride if you need it.
Take your food and water with you and for a day ride you won't need much that way you can eat whenever you need to stop without moving your bike or without having to worry if there's a shop when you need a break.
I've ridden the same SS1600k route three times with different people. Those who fart about take 19 hrs to get it done. Those who stay focused do it in 17 at the same moving average. The route has 6 fuel stops and 1 corner docket and that's where the time differences happen.
You do need a plan that at the very least tells you what time you need to leave a location by to finish the ride within the time. That way if you need to rest you will know how long you have available or you can make the call to end it. Your plan should also include where you fuel up and/or have to get a corner dockets if your route is complex. It helps not to have to think about that stuff too much on the fly and for me breaking the ride up into discreet chunks makes it go more smoothly.
The guys are right, you aren't pushed for time with a 1600k day but that doesn't mean you should waste any of it. On the right bike (and the ST is) with the right approach/frame of mind it'll be over before you know it.
As for fatigue and fatigue management. Just make smart decisions along the way based on your own common sense. Opinions about whether or not the activity is safe are irrelevant because the only opinion that matters at any point in time in your ride is your own. The decision to embark on the ride is also your own. So when you start you've already decided you can do it safely or are prepared to stop. Otherwise you'd just be being a little bit silly and it's not for me to have an opinion on that!
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I have deleted all comments that have been posted today that did not apply to my plans of a 1600km iron butt ride, this is not a competition about who is right and wrong, but simply put, this is about my ride, so we will leave the conversations at that.
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I agree, back to your ride.
There will always be some risk, but good planning and skillful execution will always help to reduce that risk, We ride!
If this hasn't already been said, try to avoid mixing with too much traffic. Both towns and turns slow you down. The coast road down to Ballina is wonderful (some roadworks near Byron and 10 kms south. Looks like a new tunnel), but after Ballina you then have to contend with getting over the divide. The run up/down the coast below Ballina is particularly bad at the moment, lots of roadworks, from my recent experience. I would normally avoid the coast road if riding/driving to a schedule. Can also be a lot of rubber-neckers and other local traffic.
If you get out onto the Newell Hwy, it is possible to cover some large, uninterrupted distances. Much of it at a legal 110 kph. Mostly good roads too (as of Oct 2013 - car to Melbourne and back).
I like the New England Hwy. Always a good run up or down, but lots of k'roos in places, from what I could see.
Best of luck with this.