OzSTOC
Farkles, Gear & Accessories => Lights and Lighting => Topic started by: pault on June 21, 2014, 12:43:59 PM
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St1100 retrofit projectors
I think we have established that the 1100 reflector is found wanting. After all it is some 20 years old now. So whether one fits HID’s or the latest LED’s, one is stuck with an old design. Having a look at the pic you can see why the standard light is wanting.
The technology is changing all the time. HID seem to have the higher lumens for wattage.
LED’s are going up in wattage which defeats my purpose in keeping amps down with the smaller alternator.]
With the idea of fitting projectors To avoid wrecking a standard light. It would be possible to build a box with the right frontal shape and a piece of polycarbonate in front. Mount a couple of projectors inside, with some sort of shim adjustment for alignment.
However some years ago I picked up headlight on ebay for $10. So I have the easiest ?? Solution.
The light has already been modified to take the standard H4 bulbs.
See here http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=1857.0 (http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=1857.0)
To get the light apart I heated the kitchen oven to 200c. Turned it off and put in the light for 10 min.
Only comment from child bride was “ You haven’t done that for a long time.”
The lens came away easily, pried of with a screw driver, needed gloves but it was not too hot. Good idea to get the glue off while hot. Do not leave oven on, otherwise you will cook the light!!
I did think about grinding the inner surface of the original glass lens, to make it smooth. But I have my doubts about how it might come out. So the next thing is to get a thick piece of plastic cut to size. I want to get the final profile as near to the original as possible. To make up a rim of sorts and then curve a piece of polycarbonate to fit for a clear lens. Will probably draw it on CAD and get it cut to save some work. Have to contact a couple of firms.
This may be a rather slow project, might have to wait for $ from tax check.
I would value anyone’s ideas.
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I would be interested to find how it works, as no doubt will many others, look fwd to the next instalment.
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Love to watch a project were someone else is spending their money :popcorn :popcorn
:beer
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Love to watch a project were someone else is spending their money :popcorn :popcorn
:beer
and taking on the stuff too difficult for the rest of us...
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Pg 2
While designing an extender rim and lens I found this site
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?18780-The-Clear-Lens-Forming-Thread. (http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?18780-The-Clear-Lens-Forming-Thread.)
Much easier. To make a mould I filled the lens with a mixture of grout, polyfiller, cornice cement and other stuff I have had for 20 years, had just enough, recipe is a secret. I have left it for a few days to harden. Dug up a piece of acrylic and some timber for the frame. Acrylic is a bit scratched so it’s a bit of an experiment with temp, just to see what happens.
In the mean time I was curious about projectors might behave in corners, see attached pic.
Not real good, even worse in some ways than the HID I have already. I have a fog light which points up the trees on the left so on left handers I can still see. If one is taking a right-hander with oncoming traffic I want to see what is happening on the left to avoid being blinded. The projector seems to wash out at the bottom of its field leaving one stressed. So I will still need my left fog.
I found an excellent site comparing projectors on high and low beam, easy to see the cheaper versions. This guy has done a lot of work.
http://www.jvxdriver.com/bixenon_comparison.htm (http://www.jvxdriver.com/bixenon_comparison.htm)
There are a lot of links at the bottom
This link will compare other projectors leaning.
http://www.jvxdriver.com/Hybrid%20IS%20vs.%20Modded%20RX330%20Comparison.htm. (http://www.jvxdriver.com/Hybrid%20IS%20vs.%20Modded%20RX330%20Comparison.htm.)
So I think we agree that the 1100 reflectors are crap. What to do?
Go with the projectors?
What about this? Semi sealed beam insert for low beam only. 114mm which will fit. There is only room for 2 x 120mm dia headlight units in the 1100 twin thing. This should fill in the bottom a bit more.
http://www.ozautoelectrics.com/flood-beam-d114-h3.html (http://www.ozautoelectrics.com/flood-beam-d114-h3.html)
Fit 35w HID, For high beam, fit what you like. LED HID spots or euro beam.
I will be keeping the watts down to 35 each.
More later
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Any updates Paul? I'm interested in doing something similar to my ST11..
Cheers!
Nate
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AS time and $ permit i have been working on this.
to fit projectors into the ST shell will mean another lens without all the focusing ridges of the glass. Also it will need to stick out another 15mm at least as compared to the original. This is because the projectors simply will not fit otherwise. No matter whether one uses the H! or the D2S units. I think most of us use headlight protectors already so one has an idea of how far it will stick out.
I have ordered a pair of D2S projectors. Removed the original headlight reflectors to reveal the odd shaped backing plate which sits inside the black shell. I want to keep the original headlight adjusters. I have found a piece of ABS plastic to use a sort of sub base plate. The D2S projectors need 4 mounting screws and spacers while the H1 screw into the original reflectors. I have gone the D2S as they are better quality as compared to the H1 and might sit further back into the headlight which might mean less lens poocking out.
I will be getting some polycarbonate this week for the lens. Will post pics when i have some bits to put together.
AS an aside. I have 2 headlights. I have used my older one for this.The other one i put in the bike with HID's. what a differance. The older one was just crap and the state of the reflectors led to the washing out problem. I suspect this may be what Mr Sazz experianced.
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The washing out with HID's is caused by the lamp length an xtra 12mm over original, this is because HID have a barrel which slides back and forth between hi and lo beam, hence the beam is focused too far in front of the reflector.
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Hi Paul,
With the backing plate, would it be possible to mount the mini H1's as they screw into the reflector? I dont mind loosing the reflector, had though about painting it black to match the bike anyway. The projectors I'm looking at for mine are from here: http://www.retrofitlab.com/xenon-projectors/mini-h1-bi-xenon-projectors-60.html (http://www.retrofitlab.com/xenon-projectors/mini-h1-bi-xenon-projectors-60.html)
Both the D2S & H1 projectors seem to have a mounting depth of 120mm.
The next biggest problem for me is changing the lens for something clear. Not too keen on the original changing the light output/visibility due to the focusing bumps on it. Am interested to see how you go with this.
I think I might look to get a 2nd headlight to build up then transplant.
Cheers!
Nate
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with the H1's they mount in the reflector any way and it is recessed into the backing plate so i do not think that making up another base plate would be of any benefit. By using D2S projectors i might be able to recess them further in because of the way they mount, having nothing to do with the original H4 holes. And there is a big hole in the base plate. This is all conjecture really as i wont know how it will really fit till i get the bits. As you say the lens is a bit of a worry. Not a big $ item. will get plastic tomorrow and see how i go over next week.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
How did you go with the plastic forming? Digging around a bit more (following some links from STRay - http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=6303.0 (http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=6303.0)) have come across these options for the projectors.
http://eshop.ktautopart.com/motorcycle-hid-projector/hid-projector-for-dual-lights/kt-mt6d.html (http://eshop.ktautopart.com/motorcycle-hid-projector/hid-projector-for-dual-lights/kt-mt6d.html)
and
http://eshop.ktautopart.com/motorcycle-hid-kits/motorcycle-hid-kit-honda/st1100/kt-mt2.html (http://eshop.ktautopart.com/motorcycle-hid-kits/motorcycle-hid-kit-honda/st1100/kt-mt2.html)
Both of these units are shorter then the D2S units. I might have to order a set, most likely the MT6D's to see how good.
Cheers!
Nate
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Gentlemen and Nate. Firstly there is 110mm from the back of the reflected to the front of the lens. So most projectors designed to screw into the reflector will fit without having to build a lens which sticks out too far. the first pic shows the reflector base with the reflectors removed. A bit useless for fitting anything. I have D2S projectors so i made a new base plate from 2mm ally so i can still use the standard 3 point mount/adjuster, see pic 2/3
I got some 3mm acrylic sheet and a made a frame as per this link.
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?18780-The-Clear-Lens-Forming-Thread (http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?18780-The-Clear-Lens-Forming-Thread)
Using kitchen oven for the plastic I had 160 c was not hot enough. jacked it up to 260c . I also had the concrete former in the oven as well.
after another 10 min pulled everything out and pushed down on the stencil. I do not think I had enough room around the mould to leave enough for the plastic to give? As it pulled out of the frame. Also had to stand on stencil However as the acrylic formed it self just to the edge mould with a few wobbly bits I might be able to use it with the use of a hair dryer or gas torch. Get to that in the next few days. An interesting experiment. For anyone trying this make sure the house is properly aired before the good women get home.
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mucked up the pics here is the original base plate with reflectors removed
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i will do a few posts here to keep pics separate
these 2 are the low and high beam HID in the original head lite shell
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Thanks Pault for posting :thumb
Very interesting project you and Ray have done :think1 one day.
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these are the high and low HID projectors. i rigged up a jig using a wheel barrow and other bits , the ride mower on battery and some switches.
worked well being able to adjust beams and switch everything.
as you can see the difference is huge.
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Very nice Paul, the extra light difference is huge! With the D2S lights mounted, will you still have to make the new lens cover larger? Or will they fit with the existing size? From what I can gather, if I use something like the Mini H1's then I shouldn't need to make up a baseplate like you did. They should mount through the existing H4 holes. The lens still seems to be the trickiest part.
Now to eBay to see if I can find an old light to use as the mould.
Cheers!
Nate
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as Nate says the lens thing is the most tedious. Mine does not need to be any larger than normal. While my first attempt is ok on the front, the back edge is useless. One has to make a former stencil thing to push down over the acrylic on the mould. Mine was too big. Having cut out the basic lens shape i have made a smaller stencil? and tomorrow I will put everything back in the oven and try again to get the edge finished. Earlier i had tried to do it with a gas torch to no avail. This exercise does not destroy your headlight. I can easily put everything back to normal. If one does not need the bike for a few days you can get the original lens off, fill with concrete and let it go off and finish the lens inside a week. Having the projectors and HID kit preordered would help of course. As usual i have written more than i intended. more tomorrow with pics.
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Thanks Paul, unfortunately I'm going to have to get a 2nd light as :blk11 is my daily ride to & from work... No real biggy though, means I will have a 2nd light spare if I bust (hopefully not) the main. Looking forward to the next installment Paul.
Cheers!
Nate
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I am nearly finished. To quickly go over the total operation. put your headlight in the kitchen oven to get the lens off. fillet with concrete and let go off. It should just fall out. fill the hollows with car bog and sand smooth. Cut a piece of 9mm ply the same shape as the concrete plug bottom, this must be accurate. Sit both on a piece of ply that will fit in the oven, makes handling easier when hot. Get a piece of acrylic about 450 by 350mm. centre it on the mould and place in oven say 200 c. Earlier I posted a link showing the use of a frame to hold the plastic. Don't bother. a waste of time and it did not work for me any way, Had to get more acrylic sheet. When cutting the ply base cut another piece with a hole 5mm bigger than the mould. Brace it all round ( I broke one earlier) with 2 extra bits on the sides so it will clear mould and strong enough to stand on. See pics. Have a pice of carpet or ply ready beside the oven. When the acrylic starts to droop after say 15m pull the whole lot out and place the " stencil?" over the hot acrylic onto of the mould press down and stand on it for a few minutes. It will soon cool, i had a cuppa while waiting.. Use a dremel style thing to cut out your wonderfully made lens. All i have to do now if glue it in, silicon or contact as long as it seals.I like it when something simple works.
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Looking like a bought one :thumbs
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I take it you're in NSW so how will the lights go for your rego inspection.
For HID headlights to be legal they need to be self levelling and have headlight washers and usually can not be retro fitted unless available as an option.
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not worried about rego. 1100 lights are levelling, just turn the knob. get washed in rain. rego due soon will fit after. One thing i have not mentioned yet is the sharp cut off and not being able to see round left handers., Had this problem with ordinary lights. Fitted a fog lamp which is trying to shoot possums, kicked up and pointing left so when cornering one can actually see. No trouble with on coming. Might be some reaction from oncoming traffic on left handers as the low will be kicked up. Wait and see.
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:popcorn :popcorn
I am watching this thread quite closely and wondering if you will take orders for the lenses .....
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what we can do is offer a headlight with the lens separated. sort of a club do it yourself kit. where you can make your own concrete plug and lens. then post the light back to me or onto the next person.
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Hi Paul,
Just noticed the "finished" job. WOW, that does look good. It seems that the frame idea from the HID forum isnt the way to go. Your idea of the brace around the mold frame looks to work much better. What thickness acrylic sheet did you use? I'm guessing about 3/4mm?
For me, the only addition would be to try to fit the original reflector, heavily modified and painted black back into the light base making a cleaner look.
I've been thinking about the light cutoff issue as well, I'm going to add a couple of additional LED fog & spot lights to the boy. If I get the dual intensity ones, I think that I can pretty much have my cake & eat it too! :EatCake
Cheers!
Nate
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i used 3mm acrylic industrial gradee uv stabilised did not use polycarbonate as looses heat to quick. still need to use headlight protector would go as usual
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I have an ST1100 light if you want it.. $15 + postage.
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I presume you mean the whole thing?
sold if no one else wants it
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LOL was thinking the same thing! Might save you sending one up Paul if I bought Craigs. But since you called it first, your call.
cheers!
Nate
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Went for a ride tonight with my D2S HID projectors fitted. I live in a rural area so was on a a busy at this time of day winding road. I have the 4300k bulbs. I did not find the reflection from signs distracting as I have read that the higher spec bulbs do that.
wow i can actually see now.
height adjustment is critical otherwise one is annoying everybody.
in left handers i has no flashes from oncoming so must be good.
Only down side is I think a fog pointing up a bit and to the left is a good idea as it will enable one to see on left handers.
I already have this fog fitted years ago. Right handers no problem for me as I have always looked left to void oncoming traffic.
Low beam cut off is super sharp, not the fading out thing we are used to.
High beam on mine has a rising lump in the middle with heaps of distance and clear vision to boot
This project has taken some time and effort, flying blind at times but i worked it all out and am well pleased with result.
Has not been too expensive, will add up dockets and post $ later.
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:popcorn
Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk
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Hi Paul, do you have a photo yet of how it looks mounted? The ride report sounds good, looking forward to doing mine soon.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Nate asked how it looks mounted. i have to confess I cheated. i have another bike devoid of plastic. I fitted my light to this other bike and away i went. Measuring every thing up the lens I made would not stick out past the fairing.
With the concrete plug the full size of the lens and placed on a piece of 9mm ply the same shape as the bottom of the plug. The acrylic will bend to form a radius at the bottom as it is pressed over the concrete. When i cut the lens off just above this bend It worked out to be the right size for my projectors. If one is using the H1 projectors you would have to measure everything first.
Now to $’s
35w hid fast start ballast $100.60
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151188200056?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151188200056?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
2.5” HID projectors $100 pr
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FX-R-HID-PROJECTOR-LENS-BI-XENON/505448791.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FX-R-HID-PROJECTOR-LENS-BI-XENON/505448791.html)
bulbs Phillips D2S model # 85122
from The retrofit source $95 pr There are cheaper ones but from looking at forums they are not as good. These have 2yr warranty.
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/components/bulbs/d2s-philips-85135.html#.VBqOSksWdz8 (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/components/bulbs/d2s-philips-85135.html#.VBqOSksWdz8)
plugs for bulbs/HID $15 pr about same on ebay.
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/accessories/amp-d2s-ballast-adapter-90-degree.html#.VBqRGEsWdz8 (http://www.theretrofitsource.com/accessories/amp-d2s-ballast-adapter-90-degree.html#.VBqRGEsWdz8)
acrylic industrial grade uv proofed 450 by 350mm $10 local mob
9mm ply and some 45 by 19 pine $25 from bunnings
Total $360.68.
stuff I already had
2mm aluminium for base
bunch drills, hole saw, drill press, files etc
kitchen oven, lots of time for first attempt.
would be easier now with experimenting done.
Please note I have used the D2S units which are not plug and play, need new base, plate.
The H1 units just screw in. I have enjoyed the challenge of the D2S.
and well pleased with result and value for $
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OK fitted for daily use
When fitting the acrylic lens to the shell I did not use glue. I figured silicon sealant and good tape would be a better option if I had to get the lens off again. Paid off as one of the shrouds fell forward and there was not enough vertical adjustment to bring the beams down to an acceptable level.
I took the shrouds out. i did not really like the “goth” look anyway. I fitted 4mm spacers to the top mounts of the D2S projectors to cure the beam alignment . This nearly worked 100%. It still wants fiddling so that the standard actually vertical adjuster works. Will look at surgery to the lower shell mounts.
When fitted there was a sizeable gap around the sides and bottom. I squeezed some soft rubber hose into the gap a piece of tape acres the top.. This seals only a temp thing. I have a much bigger project happening.I have another bike with 58k on it and my daily ride has 272k. So I m in process of combining the two.
I have used the 4300k bulbs for this project. Having used 6000k bulbs in the former set up. I can notice the difference in light reflected off signs. The 4300k bulbs do not reflect as much. Making the ride more comfortable. I have had to look the other way at times with the 6000k version.
Penetration is fine, perhaps a bit sharper?. Surely this must be a safety , less stress thing for those on longer rides. Driving professionally I am always looking at reducing stress levels, even early in the day’s work or riding as this pays off with a more relaxed me at the finish.