OzSTOC
General Category => Active Polls => Topic started by: Diesel on February 06, 2012, 10:16:54 AM
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At nearly a metre wide, the ST is a big ol bus, but still capable of lane filtering in certain instances.
Although illegal here - do you think it would be better if we were allowed to lane share, filter or lane split to make our way up to the front of the traffic congestion?
A contentious issue - some say it's safer to be in front of everyone (so they know you're around), and some say filtering is too hazardous and fraught with danger.
It is legal in the UK and drivers are aware that motorcyclists are allowed to share their lane - rather than the attitude of 'bastard bikies - why can't they wait like everyone else?'
I voted YES to allow it - even though I probably wouldn't practice this myself on the ST.
You?
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No I think It's way to dangerous...
I've never done it and never will
While in my car, I've changed my mind as to what lane I want to be in and have swapped lanes, heaps...So many times that when I come to traffic lights etc, I always leave enough room for me to turn my car into another lane if I need to.
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Yes. I do it occasionally on the freeway in stalled traffic. It takes a lot of concentration, and you have to look hard at the cars in front and do mind reading at the same time. Being on a White ST, I find the lanes actually open up a little instead of closing up.
Only knocked both mirror covers off once... :eek :eek
By the way, there is no law against it in WA, so its not illegal . You can be done for failing to overtake correctly if Plod takes a dislike to the way you rode but.... :-[
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In some circumstances in NSW lane splitting is legal, but you need to understand the law to know how it can be so.
Think about the broken white line, the dividing line, between the rows of cars.
If you travel between the car on your left and the dividing line then you are simply overtaking as it's not necessary to leave your lane to overtake. If you pass between the car on your right and the dividing line then you commit the offence of "overtake nearside".
You can imagine a situation where 2 motorcyclists are travelling 2 abreast or even stationary 2 abreast and another bike passes them on the right without leaving the lane. No offence committed.
I don't do it, I think the ST's a bit wide.
Brad
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Diesel has opened a can of worms with this one.
http://bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm (http://bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm)
Also lane spliting and lane filtering are not the same.
"Lane Splitting" is when a motorcycle travels between other cars in moving traffic.
"Lane filtering" is defined as moving between traffic when other surrounding traffic is stationary.
I used to lane filter sometimes but don't do it any more with the main reason that I rarely get to ride in the city any more. Also I haven't done it since having the 1100.
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Well it's not that long ago that I was riding in the UK and filtering on a daily basis.
So as someone with a lot of experience in this, I have to say an absolute YES, it should be allowed.
I can't believe it's not legal here! Filtering through traffic is one of the key advantages of a motorcycle.
If done properly, it is not particularly dangerous - I would consider there to be far more dangerous activities on a bike other than filtering. If you look at the M25 during rush-hour gridlock, you'll see many bikes filtering between lanes for mile after mile. I've done it myself plenty of times. Yes there are some who think they can ride as fast as they like between lanes - they are asking for trouble. But done properly, it's fine.
In the UK, filtering is part of Advanced Motorcycling and if you do not filter when appropriate you will fail your Advanced test. Filtering is also part of Motorcycle Roadcraft (the Police rider's motorcycling handbook, which is the basis for Advanced riding) where it states:
When traffic is stationary or moving slowly in queues, motorcyclists can use their manoeuvrability and limited space requirement to make progress. The advantages of filtering along or between stopped or slow moving traffic have to be weighed against the disadvantages of increased vulnerability while filtering.
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i used to do it, and then i had an "experience" of a car driver opening his door and didnt see me, and well it cost me almost a $1000 in repairs to them and me, so know i wait patiently 90% off the time, unless it is a very very clear path.
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While I did it for years in Sydney peak hour traffic and I guess still do it on the odd occasion I voted NO because there is always that chance the space between the cars will close up and suddenly no where for you to to go or a driver will not see you and change lanes in front of you.
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I vote YES!, I did this for years in UK, and for quite a long time here in Adelaide and as long as you are careful and acutely aware of what is going on around you (aren't we all anyway?), then there is no reason why this can't be performed quite safely. What you can't do is storm down the narrow gap between stopped cars at normal speed and expect to survive until you get to the front of the queue!!
I agree about the difference between 'splitting' and 'filtering'; splitting, i.e. going between moving cars, is a game for those with a death-wish, but filtering should be quite acceptable!
Isn't amazing that some things are required in one place whilst being illegal in other places.
My 5 cents worth!
Cheers
Whizz
:13Candy
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I vote yes for Lane filtering (not splitting as this has been pointed out to be different)
I do lane filter from to time but I don’t do it every time, :think1 I guess about once a month on average.
When I do lane filter I’ll only do it if all the traffic is stopped and there is a sizable space between vehicles. :thumb
I’ll move at a slow speed, and as Whizz said ride in a careful manner and be acutely aware of what is going on around me.
As many have said it is legal in other countries without too many issues, so it can be done without it causing accidents all the time.
I know a lot of :cop that ride and they have all admitted to lane filtering every now and then, but… they all said it is illegal :law and don’t recommend it because of this and only this.
So again I say yes it should be made legal :thumb but only if done at a safe speed, I have seen so many riders fly through between traffic at the posted speed limit or higher. That’s dangerous and shouldn’t be legal :well
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So again I say yes it should be made legal :thumb but only if done at a safe speed, I have seen so many riders fly through between traffic at the posted speed limit or higher. That’s dangerous and shouldn’t be legal :well
I think in the UK the guideline is something like 10-15mph above the speed of the traffic. So if the traffic is moving, you can still filter (it's one and the same thing in the UK) - but you've got to be sensible about it. If I was on the motorway and traffic is doing 20mph limit 70mph), then I would filter. If traffic was doing 50mph, then I would not. But that's just my take on it.
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I commute 40k's (each way) along one of Oz's busiest Freeways the Monash in both my car and bikes that I've had over the last ten tears, or so. The last few years the Monash had a lane added to its entire length, which made the going very slow by car and risky if you rode.
Over time you work out what you can and can't do and what other road users 'think' what you're doing. I've had people move over to allow me to split and others squeeze me as I attempt to move through. I might add that I don't split above 40-50k’s; I take my time and wear a Hi-Vis jacket when commuting.
I suspect most motorists see bike riders as cheats and some are ok with it and some aren't. And that's ok, I kind of like that. The oblivious ones who don't care, they're the one I worry about and I include other Motorcyclist in that group. Flying through, around & under other unsuspecting road users does us no favours.
As always, know yours and others limitations.
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As a heavy vehicle operator, I would say no. I've seen too many close calls. The lanes are too narrow. My truck is the maximum width, which doesn't leave much room for anything.
Cars are fortunate enough to have metal around them. We have nothing.
:blu13
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Yes to lane filtering, no to lane splitting.
I lane filter generally at about jogging speed. I want to have plenty of time to deal with someone deciding on a rapid lane change.
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I've filtered plenty of times, especially on the Bruce Highway when the traffic has come to a standstill for miles due to a wreck or one of those "phantom roadblocks". Our mirrors are at the unfortunate position of being exactly the same height as car mirrors, so it can require some skill at times. I was lucky a few weeks ago not to be booked. The coppers were in an unmarked car and followed me into the Servo I entered and came over while I was filling and said they would need to see me when I'd paid my bill. While I was in the queue at the cashier the ladycop came in and said they'ds been called to another job and I wasn't to do it again because I would be fined (not because it is dangerous, but because in Qld it's illegal).
What I'd like to see is for us to be allowed to use the bike lane, always giving priority to push bikes. That makes really good sense to me. Most of the time I'm riding I see the bike lane is devoid of bikes.
In the hundreds of threads in which this has been hammered out, one of the best points made is being allowed to go to the front of the queue frees up one whole car space in the traffic. We're off the lights so fast (IF you don't stall it!) we effectively take up no space in the traffic flow, thus reducing congestion.
Filtering therefore makes perfect sense to me. I know tintop prisoners mostly hate us for doing it (I ignore their little "toots"). That's the price one pays for having superior transportation.
Another funny thing happened on the way to somewhere. A truckie took exception to my pulling up to the front beside him and blew his horn at me. I looked up at him and blew my (louder) airhorn back at him. He cracked up. :thumbs
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+1 Biggles
That's one of the joys of riding a bike & do it when needed & I agree that Car drivers hate it but hey they hate cyclists or anyone who filters thru the traffic.
As long as you don't make an impact on their progression by stalling etc then go for it
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I filter every day going to & from work.
So now you tell me it's illegal I will just have to stop it :whistle
People are pretty polite about it up here.
I've only had one knob pull over on me in Town.
I don't split because I don't trust anyone else that much.
But I will squeeze into gaps if the traffic is staggered; indicating before changing lanes.
It really is like living in a large country town :thumbs
Viva la Queensland
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Yes for me, when safe to do so. I don't do it that often as I don't commute to work often, and the roads are not that busy here. If car drivers don't like it, ask them to swap vehicles if it starts pissing down rain if they don't want anyone having an unfair advantage over others due to the type of their vehicle. You put up with the good and the bad features of whatever you drive/ride.
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Well said Sazz, car drivers are only jealous because it is actually possible for us to lane filter, they can't do it in their tin-tops, and if they can't then why should anyone else be allowed to! Now that I live outside the city I don't do it anywhere near as much as I used to but when I lived in Adelaide and worked in the CBD I did every day without fail and never had any problems...except glares from car drivers and I don't care about them, I have broad shoulders and a big fast bike, why should I give a s**t what their opinion is?
Cheers all
:13Candy
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It is interesting to read all of the relevant comments, and I must say that in the main there is so much that is true to the enjoyable and safe use of our chosen mode of transport.
I do find however that a lot of confusion and disparity exhists with all the different road authoritys that exhist here in Australia.
I believe that for me on a Motorcycle when in traffic it is best to never be in a hurry or impatient, sometimes I must admit that i do break this rule.
However here in W.A. when either lane splitting or otherwise ,it is totally illegal to either change lanes or even cross the unbroken white line when approaching traffic lights ,or even when overtaking another vehicle ,when the lane is marked by an unbroken white line on your side of the lane, This marking is prevalent at the approach to Traffic Lights, and at many other locations that may be deemed to be hazadous for any reason.
So all I can say is ride with care, and stay safe.
Cheers to all.
Winston66 Northampton Western Australia.
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I do it went the traffic is at at stand still and I just sneak through with care.. Even had a copper on a bike follow me through and when I got to the traffic lights he said as long as the traffic is at a stand still and you are not racing through you will be right.
I thing as long as you are doing it safely you will be right. :blk13
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Even had a copper on a bike follow me through and when I got to the traffic lights he said as long as the traffic is at a stand still and you are not racing through you will be right.
I thing as long as you are doing it safely you will be right.
And therein lies the problem. The M/C Coppers themselves know it is BS and might leave you alone but the tintops will nail you every time because they think like car drivers, not like riders.
If we ever get uniform country-wide laws they will most likely have to be the most conservative from every State, which means there will be no filtering allowed because some States forbid it.
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I use the Gateway in Brisbane quite frequently and will lane filter in the new sections where there is plenty of space between lanes. You need to be careful and also look behind you before moving to lane filter as quite often there is a smaller and faster sports bike coming through. It is risky and requires a heightened level of defensive riding.
I also frequently ride a bicycle to work (not on the Gateway) so I am used to anticipating mindless car behaviour.
:dred11
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Just found a vid of a chap in the UK filtering through traffic on a ST1100. He is quite good at manouvring this large bike. Seems like the traffic is obliging too with some good space being left between lanes for this purpose.....
ST1100 filtering in UK traffic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LexEW8SUMLg#ws)
Cheers, Diesel
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That all looked very safe. He let the truck do the lane change and didn't rush to the front at the round-about. Took it carefully through the narrow gaps etc.
Unfortunately, that seems to be one step up from what is proposed in NSW where the traffic has to be stopped. There is no doubt that when the traffic is rolling the risk of a sudden lane change is huge requiring real vigilance..
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Diesel, for most of this video this bloke is Lane Splitting, i.e. the cars are actually moving, not Lane Filtering...however as stated above by Dan this distinction only seems to apply here in Aus, there is no distinction in UK, so I suppose I'm just nit-picking :wink1
As to the trial of Lane Filtering in Sydney, having driven in Sydney a few times (not a lot Thank God!) I'm amazed that anyone thinks the lanes are wide enough for a single car, let alone a car and a bike!. I have been in situations where there have been trucks hauling down the same road as me and I'd swear there was only about three layers of paint between my cart and their wheels! Scary is not the word!! and talk about ignorant, selfish, self-absorbed drivers, they don't give an inch! I take my hat (not baseball cap :grin) off to anyone who rides or drives in Sydney on a regular basis, I pity you!
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I have come across trucks stuck in traffic on the highway due to accidents etc, that definitely dislike bikes being able to get to the front by safety trickling past on the verge. Some actively try and move over to stop the bikes.
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I’d like to add, that I haven't posted anything in this post. :runyay
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....so why not, no opinion, Gaz?
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I feel that filtering through stationary traffic should be allowed, but I won't do it on the ST.
Although I understand that "filtering is not specifically illegal in SA, there are some existing offences under which "filterers" can be charged if the police want to, such as failing to maintain your vehicle within a lane, and overtaking on the inside.
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If I EVER came across traffic THAT BAD... Then I think I'd do it as well...
Fortunately, even in Melbourne it's never that bad. Sydney on time. From the Bridge tunnel all the way to airport so I missed my plane by 2 minutes is the worst it's gotten, then I wished I was on a bike.
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It's a NO for me guys......simple Risk Vs Gain assessment, having seen the ramifications of a cycle splitting stationary vehicles when working in Sydney.....The rider and cycle escaped the incident relatively unscathed, not so the 10 year old crossing between the stationary cars holding mum's hand in a school zone.
As I said Risk Vs. Gain......
:beer
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I believe the details were the motorcyclist was between traffic with a car to the left and a truck to the right. The motorcyclist had "filtered" between the lanes.
As the lights turned green the truck anticipating the lights rolled forward over the top of the motorcyclist who couldn't be seen by the truck driver and didn't know they were there.
This is one reason filtering is dangerous and I am opposed to it.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/woman-killed-in-towsville-crash-between-motorbike-and-truck/story-e6freon6-1225874055508 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/woman-killed-in-towsville-crash-between-motorbike-and-truck/story-e6freon6-1225874055508)
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NO.
wait in line like everybody else,
But, hopefully they have paid their rego/insurance/CTP, but I doubt it living in Sydney. ("I swear to God mate, it wan'st me, bro")
But I do get paid to go to Court.
Cheers
Dave
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I have to say I did it when I was much younger, but I would not do it now, I don't think it is fair to the driver you are surprising as you idle past.......
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sorry but what is lane filtering?
cheers doggy :well
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I still do it from time to time (not often though) and only when the traffic is stoped and there is plenty of space to filter past.
One tip if you are going to do it… check for crotchrockets flying up from behind you before starting to move between traffic, and always move at a slow pace.
The other times I do it is for safety reasons:
I have moved up between traffic a number of times just to get some distance between myself and a cage driver that was suffering a bit of road rage (yelling, screaming and hitting their steering wheel) just so I feel safer. (I don’t trust that they will pay any attention to a motorbike when they are this worked up)
On a small number of occasions I have done it to get away from people that were speeding up behind me and slammed on their brakes late. (I start moving between traffic before they stop… better for me to be a few cars down if/when their brakes fail)
Just my thoughts
Cheers
Shiney
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sorry but what is lane filtering?
cheers doggy :well
See below quote from Alan
"Lane Splitting" is when a motorcycle travels between other cars in moving traffic.
"Lane filtering" is defined as moving between traffic when other surrounding traffic is stationary.
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i don't have that in the sticks
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country roads
cheers doggy :butt
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Lane filtering & lane splitting accidents
http://youtu.be/_GH8D2EqDZs (http://youtu.be/_GH8D2EqDZs)
http://youtu.be/w5Bci82yjyA (http://youtu.be/w5Bci82yjyA)
http://youtu.be/nRlVZXIrV-Q (http://youtu.be/nRlVZXIrV-Q)
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I was taught it to be illegal from word go in Qld so I've only ever done it once, it was 1 car at a set of red lights. Felt really bad so I've never done it again. I feel the risks are not worth the 2-5mins you may save on the trip.
Rob.
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There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at, it goes from two lanes to one and you almost always get some idiot who wants to sit 20km below the limit. The lanes are nice and wide, so no danger there...
When riding in real traffic "down south" I tend not to bother, don't know my way round well enough to be in a hurry...
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There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at, it goes from two lanes to one and you almost always get some idiot who wants to sit 20km below the limit. The lanes are nice and wide, so no danger there...
When riding in real traffic "down south" I tend not to bother, don't know my way round well enough to be in a hurry...
2 lanes... In Darwin?..... I thought you guys had dirt roads......
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We even get up to 3 lanes for a few kms on the Stuart Hwy....
But guess what? I don't care. We have 130km/h speed limits, with rumour that the new govt may lift it back to open!!!! :grin :runyay :grin :runyay
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Sabie, with your three videos, in the first two the rider is going insanely fast between the traffic, hence not being able to avoid the collision, and in the last one I reckon that's just plain sod's law, bad luck! In the first two, if the riders had been doing a reasonable speed, not playing crotch-rocket pilots then they would have had plenty of time to avoid the lane-changer, and I think that God himself would have had a hard time avoiding the last one!
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I usually dont get much opportunity to filter or split, as 90% of my riding is backroads. I do filter when I get near the end of the ride in the afternoon at a set of lights, cos its mad Mum time nd I dont want one of those distracted mums ramming me.
I have split the lanes on occasion when going from one work site to another (100k ride). There is a section on the Roe Hwy of 7Ks where at 0800 is at an almost standstill. It can take an hour to do this stretch in a car. The traffic is pretty good, leaving enough room for bikes to get through (even an ST1100), some will even move out of the way if they can, It only took me about 10 min to do that stretch (cant find the video but.
The Mitchell Freeway in the morning and afternoon is the same, if you dont filter/split, then 30Ks will take 90+ min.
Of course, having a white bike and flouro jacket certainly doesnt hurt. o:)
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i think we that do dice with slow traffic is ok
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....so why not, no opinion, Gaz?
Thanks Whizz :well for making me post something in this post. :cuss
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....so why not, no opinion, Gaz?
Thanks Whizz :well for making me post something in this post. :cuss
:rofl :crackup :fp
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I voted yes.
But are we all in that much of hurry where 5 minutes ACTUALLY makes a difference????
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I voted yes.
But are we all in that much of hurry where 5 minutes ACTUALLY makes a difference????
As pointed out by Brock, sometimes it's substantially more than 5 minutes.
e.g. coming down the Bruce Highway from the Sunshine Coast when there has been an accident on a Sunday afternoon. The traffic jam can go for "miles".
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There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........
There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? :crackup :crackup
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There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........
There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? :crackup :crackup
We even have traffic lights and roundabouts :grin, not that drivers know how to use either...... :cuss :cuss :cuss
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There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........
There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? :crackup :crackup
We even have traffic lights and roundabouts :grin, not that drivers know how to use either...... :cuss :cuss :cuss
It all to scary (crazy drivers i.e.; arms sticking out, parking to close to each other, road debris plus mad sports bike people) and PC Plod loves issuing fines. I ride big ass cruiser with wide handle bars, so the fit can be a bit squishy. :||||
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There are always fors and against on this subject, I voted yes but as a pom like streak said we benefit from lane filtering in the UK, whilst riding and driving the roads of Australia and assessing the skills of riders and drivers alike, lane filtering can pose a hazardous position as in Australia you can legally pass on the left where in the UK you cant which makes things slightly unsafe, I was surprised to learn that Aussie drivers aren' taught to drive, they are taught how to pass the driving test, that's why we complain so much about the idiot drivers who never see us. Lane sharing in cities should be allowed for motorcycles and buses, bicycles have their own rules which are unbeknownst to no-one. So I think lane filtering should be allowed but left up to the individual rider if he or she feels confident in their skills to attempt this manouevre.
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Hi I agree with Diesel i think it would be OK for some small width bikes but i would proberly not do it on a ST :eek :wht11
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Sorry shane, but whats the difference between a small width bike and an ST, the onus is on the skills of the rider not the size of the bike, if i thought i could get through a gap safely i'd probably go for it, whereas filtering between 2 truck and trailers would clearly be stupid whether your on an ST or small width bike.
:wht11
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I'd just like to point out that the topic is whether we should be allowed to lane split or filter, i.e. that it becomes a voluntary choice, not that we are forced to do so whether we want to or not. I am all for having the choice to do something, instead of having some faceless public servant (now there's an oxymoron if ever I heard one) decreeing that he thinks I shouldn't be able to.
This practice is carried out safely in many other parts of the world, but our nanny state obviously doesn't think we are grown up enough to make up our own minds on such complicated matters. I think it patently obvious that if your bike is too wide to fit through a particular gap, or you have misgivings about doing trying to make it fit, then you won't do it...and if you do try it then Darwinism steps in and the problem is quickly (and usually finally) resolved.
A famous author once wrote that it is the duty of all 'Government" to govern as little as possible, not as much as possible, unfortunately our lot (Federal, State and Local) all seem to have missed that point entirely.
My second 5 cents worth.
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A famous author once wrote that it is the duty of all 'Government" to govern as little as possible, not as much as possible, unfortunately our lot (Federal, State and Local) all seem to have missed that point entirely.
My second 5 cents worth.
A sentiment I generally agree with. However, like all arguments of the type, there are complications. There is one school of thought that the government should make no laws impinging on the individual's right to do whatever they wish with themselves, as long as that right does not interfere with the rights of others. Lane filtering and splitting would fit into this category for the most part, as there are other laws that kick in if something goes wrong (insurance, third party, liability, etc). Using this line of logic, there should also be no law compelling one to wear a helmet, or a seatbelt, or to refrain from taking drugs.
The problem is, however, there ALWAYS is someone else affected, whether indirectly or directly, when something goes wrong with an individual exercising free choice. Someone's life is changed forever when they knock you over on the bike while you were lane splitting, without a helmet, with a beer in your hand. The government (ie the taxpayer) foots the bill when you head into hospital after overdosing, or fly out of the car in far worse shape for not wearing a seatbelt. It is never just YOU.
Having spent a bunch of time in Thailand (Bangkok mostly) during the last holiday, I have seen how simply leaving it up to the individual to choose what they wish to do literally leads to carnage on the roads. Are we too protective? Are they not protective enough?
Buggered if I know.
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.... Are we too protective? Are they not protective enough?
Buggered if I know.
The answer is YES and YES :grin
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Shiney +1 and +1 :crazy
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So we are too protective here? Lane filtering/splitting should be allowed then? Should we also be allowed to choose whether to wear helmets also? Ride at whatever speed we wish? What is the difference between the issues?
They aren't protective enough? What laws should they pass to be more protective? What enforcement should take place?
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Shaun,
I have spent a bit of time in Thailand, (Have I mentioned that I will be going for 5 weeks again over easter??) and yes their driving riding seems chaotic (it is somewhat) but strangely it some how seems to work for the most part. Regular travellers (if they want to remain sane in the traffic) learn to adapt to the Thai way. (Malaysia was similar, I survived driving there for 3 Yrs) I regularly drive in Thailand, and as long as you expect bikes to come at you on the left, (and occasional cars n trucks) you should do fine.
The trouble with the Law Makers these days, is sthat they are legislating away personal responsibility.
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Brock, I totally agree with your comment about being legislated out of existence. The government are simply trying to justify their own existence by continually passing new laws...makes them look like they are actually doing something instead of simply sucking up tax payers money and acting like a bunch or badly behaved 12 year-olds.
And Shaun, Yes, Lane Splitting/Filtering should be allowed, and you might as well try to lump murder and rape into the same bucket as lane splitting and wearing a helmet, both are at opposite ends of the spectrum and not in any way comparable. The other side of your argument is that the government should legislate to make riding motorbikes illegal because people get killed doing it every year. Follow this with making smoking illegal, and having children out of wedlock illegal, or having more than one child illegal (oh wait didn't someone do that already??) and..... When is enough enough with legislation? This is where the concept of free will has to kick in and people need to be allowed to using the grey lump of stuff between their ears to make choices that are relevant for them.
...and is this the 5 minute argument or the full half-hour?
Anyway, with that I will comment no further, simply because of boredom. This topic is becoming a circular argument with two opposing views where neither camp is likely to persuade the other to change, ergo stalemate and rapidly diminishing levels of interest! I'd rather be doing it than talking about it.
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A cursory look over some stats reveals the following:
Road Fatalities per 100,000 vehicles
Australia: 8
Thailand: 118
Granted that is only one stat, and stats can really be made to say anything you wish, but as they go, that is a rather dire one.
Regardless of anything else, that is 110 more families that lose a loved one, and I doubt they will find the Darwinian interpretation a compelling or comforting one.
All I really wanted to highlight is that issues like this are not so black and white as they may appear, and that laws that are there, even laws I don't agree with (such as, for the record, prohibition on lane splitting and seatbelt enforcement) may well be preventing 110 families per 100,000 vehicles some pain.
And Whizz, I did mention earlier that I am talking about laws that don't impact on others. Rape and murder generally do, as a rule. Sorry for boring you. Next time I will simply agree with everyone, lol and post a smiley.
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Last year during Songkran (Thai new year) a 5 day period, there were about 253 deaths in Thailand due to traffic incidents (drink driving?? its a major problem in Thailand). No doubt the result will be similar this tear. New year is also a bad time. Some of these deaths are also tourists in the party towns who think they can get away with drink driving/riding, but that is another story/thread.
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I voted Yes for two reasons one I'm a Brit and do it anyway and see it as an advantage. Second unless I vote I can't see the result.... :||||
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NSW is trialing filtering in the Sydney CBD.
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NSW is trialing filtering in the Sydney CBD.
Let's just hope and pray the local boys do the right thing and that there are no accidents or incidents.
It would only take one to put the kibosh on it.
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Yeah - it might take a few months for drivers to grasp the art of stopping in the centre of the lane to fit bikes through, instead of the normal raggedy anne formation.
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A while back when I was still lane splitting thinking it was OK, a fair few drivers would move over a little to let me through.
Of course there was the occasional Bogan with the arm out the window who would let rip with an opinion as I passed. A well aimed ciggie butt could prove unpleasant, and I've seen a few of those flicked out at the lights.
I've mentioned once before how a truck driver gave me a disapproving toot as I pulled up beside him at the front. I hit the Stebel airhorn back at him and he had a good laugh.