OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ST2UP on January 08, 2015, 09:57:39 AM
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So based on the current Poll we have running about the future direction of OzSTOC, what bikes constitute the Sports Touring motorcycle tag in your opinion ??
Is it as easy as any motorcycle with road tyres, seats 2 people from factory and has factory hard panniers fitted as standard?? Is it this simple :think1
Add to the list below:
GTR1000/1400
FJR 1200/1300
Goldwings ?? (Luxury Tourer)
Trophy
BMW - various models
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I dont think anyone could possibly say that a Goldie is a SPORTS tourer. there is NOTHING sporty about a goldie ...... turer ? absolutly! Sports ? NOPE!
Mind you I have seen a vid some where of a Goldie doing things they were not designed to do .
Will see if I can find it.
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One of the main things a tourer based bike should have has is a shaft drive.........regardless of who makes it.......
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Anything 1000CC and up that has panniers, top box, decent farrings, and some sort of windshield and fuel range over 400km
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One sport tourer I have considered from time to time and I believe have had the same fate as our ST here in Oz, is the Ducati . ST2/3/4 a good looking tourer . . Downside is the chain drive . . A Scott oiler could make it very livable . .
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You would have to add the 650 V-Strom many a rider travels on it.
On an interesting note I have been riding around a mates Kawasaki 650R it can easily fit in here as well, upright, light and comfortable, I was genuinely surprised on how easy it is to ride around on with all the hard luggage available
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd499/ozstoc/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-Kawasaki-Ninja-650-ABS-White-Color_zpsovxp2nel.jpg) (http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/ozstoc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2013-Kawasaki-Ninja-650-ABS-White-Color_zpsovxp2nel.jpg.html)
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You would have to add the 650 V-Strom many a rider travels on it.
I thought about the v-storm, but in all honesty I think that fits more in the Adventure bike category
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Most tests include non-shaft drive bikes as modern sports tourers (basically any 650 up) that can do some distance in comfort. The ST1100 and ST1300 would be classed as light weight tourers these days, along with the GTR, FJR, RT etc.
Examples http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/sport-touring-reviews.html (http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/sport-touring-reviews.html)
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One would have to mention the riding position as well. I don't consider any bike where you are face down to be an ST.
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two wheels, seats two people, hard panniers, large fuel tank so range is 400 km or more, capable of cruising at 140 - 150 km/hr for extended periods (probably liquid cooled), has a more upright seating position and handles much better than a cruiser.
Agree with the St1100, St1300, FJR 1200/1300, GTR 1000/1400, Trophy and the various BMWs. And maybe the V-Strom. I once ran into a group of Hyabusa riders who had hard panniers fitted and had ridden back from Melbourne to Townsville, they swore by the Busa as a sports tourer but because of the seating position I wouldn't accept it as a sports TOURER.
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You'd have to include the Deauville, after all, it's just a baby ST
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Honda VFR800? Coments Barry?
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So Chris my post on the original topic has got you thinking.
Man its a touchy question and hundreds of hours have been spent round the camp fire or coffee table discussing this very question.
I like this as a starting point quoted Marcus "Anything 1000CC and up that has panniers, top box, decent fairings, and some sort of windshield and fuel range over 400km"
I don't like this though quoted Allans1100 "One of the main things a tourer based bike should have has is a shaft drive.........regardless of who makes it......." for that would cut out the very sport touring Aprilia Copanord because of the chain drive. Yet its got all the features and then some as a sport toura. Though I do agree in the basic need for shaft drives, don't get my point wrong.
I'll throw in the Verses 1000 2015 build.
The Ninja 1000 has luggage and screen and good range and room for two.
Hondas Crossrunner
V-strom 1000 much more so than the 650 simply for engine size and two up is a little more roomy.
Lets face it the big rhinos are obvious but some others are not so cut and dried.
Its interesting if you have followed the bike price listing for any length of time, say the last ten years as published in the ;ikes of two wheels, ARR and AustMotorcyclist, some units as described seem to move about month to month and when taken mag to mag even those editors don't always agree what place a bike fits best every time.
Hers food for thought.
Put the owner of a GTR1400.
An St1300 and
an FJR owner in one room.
Blindfolded as that's traditional then place them each on the other two bikes ...sight unseen and in the dark under threat of death.
Plonk them on those bikes...let them sit for a bit touching only the bars and bums on seats and the pegs.
Take them back out side and its a dead cert you ask them what types of bike they thought they sat on and ask them to place units one and two into "is it a? toura, a cruiser or a sports bike!
Its a dead sert they would say everything escept... I sat on a ST, a GTR, aFJR....so thats alone shows the diversity of what a sample group of riders think.
Throw in the Big Trumpy, the BMWs and it just getts messy.
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Thanks for your thoughts Gatey :like
It is indeed a can of worms.....but is it full of good healthy fishing worms or the type you use combantrim on :think1
:beer
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Quote from Wikipedia. "A sportsbike, is a motorcycle optimized for speed, acceleration, braking, and cornering on paved roads, typically at the expense of comfort and fuel economy"
Cycle World's Kevin Cameron says more that, "A sportbike is a motorcycle whose enjoyment consists mainly from its ability to perform on all types of paved highway – its cornering ability, its handling, its thrilling acceleration and braking power, even its speed."
I would say that if you add to this some factory additions such as a little comfort, wind protection, and luggage in the form of panniers, and you have a Sports Tourer. The primary emphasis from the above sources seems to be on-road fast performance and handling, with some touring adaptions.
My pick of the best ever true sports/tourer, fitting all of the above, would be the Honda VFR750.
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I'm inclined to agree with Pete that the VFR750 is indeed a wonderful sports-tourer. It's just not quick enough to qualify as a sports bike, the seating position is too upright and the general flexibilty puts it squarely in the ST range. The only thing that lets it down in terms of touring is the fuel range. I never got more than 300k before hitting reserve out of either of my VFRs.
My previous bike was a BMW K1100LT and it was a nice piece of kit, but far to maintenance intensive for my taste. It toured wonderfully and I do miss the adjustable screen, but the ST1100 handles much better and is much more fun to ride, almost like a VFR with the right amount of torque. I'd characterise the K1100LT as more of a Tourer, than a sports tourer. I was never tempted to treat it in anything aproaching a sporty fashion lol :blk13
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Quote from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_touring_motorcycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_touring_motorcycle)
Differences to sport bikes (Comparing a Sport to an ST) though in most cases the lines are blurred.
A larger fairing than is implemented on sport-bikes, and an adjustable windscreen for better weather protection.
A frame that is usually designed from scratch to provide a more upright, less aggressive riding position ("all day comfort").
A longer wheelbase and more relaxed steering angle are usually also incorporated. These provide more straight-line stability than most sport bikes, but not to the degree that most pure tourers do. The addition of these heavier parts (full fairings, longer frames, heavier engine components) also serve to increase the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight, giving the bikes a smoother ride over poor surfaces.
ABS is common on sports tourers, and some manufacturers offer linked brakes and traction control.
A larger fuel tank to extend the range between fueling stops. A special fuel economy mode may exist to increase mileage.
Ground clearance is usually left fairly high, permitting more sport-like riding on twisting roads than on a pure touring bike.
Automotive-like shaft final drive is less maintenance intensive than chain drive.
Locking, detachable waterproof hard luggage, color- and style matched to the bodywork, is typical.
Luxury and convenience features such as electronically adjustable suspension, heated grips, cruise control, electrically adjustable windscreen, navigation system, electrical sockets, multiple tripmeters and tire pressure sensors.
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My previous CX500 filled both commuting and touring rolls and that would apply to the CX650 as well.
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Luxury and convenience features such as electronically adjustable suspension, heated grips, cruise control, electrically adjustable windscreen, navigation system, electrical sockets, multiple tripmeters and tire pressure sensors.
So its an XT1200ZE Tenere
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Or a Trophy SE :think1
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Or the latest FJR1300 (are they bringing in the electronic suspension adjustment model??) just to be fair, saves me mentioning the SE :beer
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Well it does show just how divers this categorising thing could cover.
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If you can comfortably go on a 1000+km camping trip on it with all your gear, AND scrape the footpegs a few times whilst getting there - then that makes it a sports/tourer for me. ;-*
Cheers, Diesel
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A Hardley will do all that, scraping the footpegs even on a roundabout but I'd Hardley call in a Sports Tourer . . . The ST1300 would be highly insulted . . . :beer
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As an owner of a VFR800 6th Gen I am a bit torn on this.
The range on the bike is excellent, even with a smaller tank, the technology (closes 2 of the 4 valves per cylinder until you reach a certain rpm) and the lighter body means the thing gets some great distance, and the big V4 means it manages it at fairly low RPM. The standard luggage can take more than my old ST1100 could. The sitting position is not as upright as my ST, but it is still upright. It is a powerful bike that has a 6th gear for the freeways, something the ST doesn't have (a major oversight in a touring bike imo). The pegs are not as low as the ST, but nowhere near as high as a sports bike. It is comfortable for a pillion and the dog carrier goes on sweetly.
I think that in some ways, the VFR is a more of a compromise between a sports bike and a touring bike than the ST is. The ST1100 is a beautiful touring bike, just wonderful for the open road, the highways and even large suburban roads and streets, but it is not what you would call sporty.
I think if you are taking sports tourer to be something that is halfway between a sports bike and a touring bike, the VFR wouldn't be too far away. And it is a Honda. We all know how well these bikes are made! :)
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Spot on, I mentioned the VFR800 earlier in this thread and would certainly consider it a great sports tourer . .
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I think the VFR occupies a niche all of its own, has done for years. A real do it all bike, for a road focused bike. All those adventure bikes are giving the sports touring category a real wake up call.
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The VFR, be it a 750 or 800 is probably the very best all-rounder I've ever encountered, but you still have to keep it fairly busy to get the best out of it. If you look at the torque figures for the two
'96 ST1100 (mine) 111Nm at 6000RPM
'06 VFR800 82NM at 8500RPM
That tells the story for me and shows why the ST doesn't need 6th gear. I used to look for an extra gear on my K1100LT but don't on the ST, also very importatnt.
The '06 ST1300 does 117 Nm at 6500 rpm which makes it very similar to the 1100 but I've only ever ridden a 1300 once for about 5 minutes. I have owned 2 VFR750s and ridden 800s and as much as I loved them both, I wouldn't swap my ST1100. The normal rider (into which group I put myself) wouldn't be able to do anything on a VFR that he/she can't do on an ST. I find the ST immensely more comfortable and prefer its bulk. Being 117kg, I always felt too big for the VFR but fit nicely on an ST. My two cents worth.