OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Wheelbarrow on June 25, 2015, 05:10:49 PM
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Not sure whether this topic has been raised here since I'm new.
I want to improve my riding skills and read up a lot from the experts. Thus, the topic of counter steering came up. I know the physics behind it but I have never consciously used this technique. For me it was simply a method of point and shoot, which worked so far. ( of course I'm planning cornering, etc...)
If I'm now starting to apply this technique, it must work subconsciously and at all times since if there is an emergency situation I don't want to think it through and just rely on reflexes. Maybe I've been using it and just wasn't aware about the fact.
Am I over analysing this? What are you experienced dudes thinking and what technique are you applying? Advice would be appreciated.
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Counter steering seems to me to be quite counter intuitive. However, play with counter steering on a nice straight road. Apply a quick gently nudge to one bar and note how the bike reacts. Try it it different speeds and you'll find that the bike reacts MUCH faster at town speeds than highway speeds. Concentrate on consciously doing it on every turn, and eventually "muscle memory" will take over and it will become automatic.
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I have done a few advanced rider training courses, and practicing counter steering was a big part of the course. Once you practice a bit you realise you can really steer the bike very sharply away from danger. Well worth a bit of practice as it is amazing how quickly you can change the bikes direction, something you probably do subconsciously.
Keith Code over in the US demonstrated counter steering by having a bike with steering separated from how it normally works. Leaning and changing weight distribution definitely does not make the bike lean over.
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Counter steering may seem counter intuitive, but its actually how you steer all the time. You cannot steer a bike by pulling left or right, unless you are travelling very slowly. Try it and see.
The idea is to understand how it it works, and know that it does work. Once the muscle memory is there, then the subconscious will use the technique to avoid problems. (hopefully that is)
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Basic explanation of counter-steering which is a term I'd never heard of until 2007.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFm3honeTQo# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFm3honeTQo#)
Keith Codes twin handle bar bike saaz mentioned
https://youtu.be/JWuTcJcqAng?list=PLbjgnvyJyFT2cgh4wS6a35AKqkSp05Nby (https://youtu.be/JWuTcJcqAng?list=PLbjgnvyJyFT2cgh4wS6a35AKqkSp05Nby)
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Counter steering may seem counter intuitive, but its actually how you steer all the time. You cannot steer a bike by pulling left or right, unless you are travelling very slowly. Try it and see.
The idea is to understand how it it works, and know that it does work. Once the muscle memory is there, then the subconscious will use the technique to avoid problems. (hopefully that is)
If riding with one hand (usually RH) you will turn left by pulling on the RH bar; pull on the left and you'll go right.
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Quote from: Brock on June 25, 2015, 04:00:25 PM
Counter steering may seem counter intuitive, but its actually how you steer all the time. You cannot steer a bike by pulling left or right, unless you are travelling very slowly. Try it and see.
The idea is to understand how it it works, and know that it does work. Once the muscle memory is there, then the subconscious will use the technique to avoid problems. (hopefully that is)
If riding with one hand (usually RH) you will turn left by pulling on the RH bar; pull on the left and you'll go right.
I should clarify my statement by saying that you cant turn left by pulling left (pushing on the right) or vice versa, unless you are travelling very slowly. Gyroscopic reaction wont allow it.
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I tend to notice I'm not counter steering when in loafing along mode.....bike just mossie's around corners :p
But when a full head of steam builds in the loins then I put my head into CS mode.....doesn't happen much unless I'm chasing Saaz somewhere :spank
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Counter steering may seem counter intuitive, but its actually how you steer all the time. You cannot steer a bike by pulling left or right, unless you are travelling very slowly. Try it and see.
The idea is to understand how it it works, and know that it does work. Once the muscle memory is there, then the subconscious will use the technique to avoid problems. (hopefully that is)
If riding with one hand (usually RH) you will turn left by pulling on the RH bar; pull on the left and you'll go right.
I actually consciously use counter steering when riding one handed. I pull on the right to turn left and push on the right to turn right.
I have also used it a couple of times very effectively in an emergency.
As someone who learnt to ride a push bike using no hands :eek I also tend to use my body weight to steer the bike. Shifting the body weight to the left helps the bike turn left.
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All true! And it does become automatic for emergency use- I've been there. Works a treat!
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At above a certain speed that is how you ride whether you realize it or not. What I want to know is what determines that speed??
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At above a certain speed that is how you ride whether you realize it or not. What I want to know is what determines that speed??
If you can get up and sit on that back seat, then you are doing "that speed" ..... ;-*
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Countersteering is how you tighten up your turn in a decreasing radius bend (didn't find many in my time in Oz, but NZ is full of them), bend tightens then press the inside bar more. Also having countersteering as an automatic response will get you out of trouble.
Practice makes perfect, so always do the "happy biker weave" when on a nice straight piece of road with no traffic around. Out in the cane fields I would weave through the centre dotted lines for practice (note recommendation that there be no traffic around). Depending on your speed, go through every third or fourth gap (at 200 km/hr don't try it, the dots have blurred into a solid centre line).
"Yes Officer, I was weaving all over my lane. I was practicing countersteering in order to make it my automatic reaction in the event of danger which requires a steering response."
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Find a reputable rider training school and enrol in an advanced riding course. You'll learn all about counter steering, it's application and along with a combination of riding techniques you will come away having learned a system of bike control that will make you a safer and more competent rider. :thumb
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As others have said, you already ARE countersteering. Although, if at speed you find your front wheel turning IN to the corner rather than OUT, then you need to increase the front tyre pressure. Even 1psi can make a difference. Either that or you need to get more heat into the tyre (which increases pressure) before pushing the bike to hard. You're chasing a 4psi increase from cold to hot.
You need to focus on where you want to be. Spot the point where you want to be at the end of the corner and you will naturally steer the bike towards it. If you cant see that, then aim for the inside of the turn until you can. You need to turn in as late as possible, this will force you to countersteer hard into the corner. Making one swift hard move.
To understand it more, if you look at my profile pic, you can see that the bike is over as far as it can go and the front wheel is clearly pointing the opposite direction to the turn.
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It's worth getting a copy of Keith Code's book(s); A Twist of the Wrist Vol 1 & 2. Even if it's just reading theory, you'll find yourself agreeing as you read, and if not, testing theory next ride! Good stuff, but best to go to rider training...Years since I've done one and keep telling myself I should do a refresher.