Average Speed Cameras

[Biggles]

Maybe more widely used around Oz, but Average Speed Cameras have proliferated on the Pacific Highway in northern NSW.  I came through in the tintop yesterday and counted what I thought were three pair, then I think there was a seventh.  When one is trying to adjust the speed to fit in with them, you are looking for the second one, but I'm also wondering whether they work strictly in pairs.  For example, do the computers only check the time elapsed between cameras 1 and 2, then 3 and 4, or can they also assess other combos like time from 2 to 3 etc.
Finally, does anyone know of anyone being fined for an Average Speed Camera detected offence?
I'm thinking that they are so effective, and there are so many, Big Brother might just be putting up dummies like those plastic CCTV cameras you can buy to stick around your property.        

Save your keystrokes telling me "just obey the speed limit and you don't have to worry".  There are situations where you overtake a vehicle and hit "limit plus 10" for 15 seconds and then feel you have to lose 10 kph for 15 seconds or get pinged.  This bs has taken any residual pleasure out of driving that we had left after being bombarded by sign boards with surgeons offering us the choice between a crushed skull and being late, or the sign every km telling us speed cameras are used in NSW, or the 24 hour fixed speed camera every 10 km with the added reminder of $3000 fines and loss of licence.     

[alans1100]

We've had them is SA for a while but mainly for Heavy Vehicles. However, they are now implementing it for everyone else.

The camera is also able to get your speed and photo if over the limit at any camera as well as average speed between any two other cameras.

There is only a fine issued if the average speed between two cameras exceeds the speed limit on that section of road. As far as I know ours are not that close together

Port Wakefield and Two Wells (55kms +/-) are the first two for cars and there is some at Port Augusta and the Riverland for trucks at the moment. (Distance/Time) x 60 = average speed/hour.

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/safer_speeds/average_speed_safety_camera

Average speed is one form of point to point speed detection. It involves measuring the time taken by a vehicle to travel between two camera sites. An image of every vehicle is captured by the first camera, together with a record of the time when the image is taken.

The second camera repeats that process. The average speed of the vehicle is calculated by dividing the distance between the cameras by the time taken for the vehicle to travel between the sites.

If the average speed of the vehicle is in excess of the speed limit then the driver of the vehicle has committed a speeding offence

[saaz]

In NSW the point to point cameras are only used for heavy vehicles (well, so far..) Cars still slow down on approaching them though, even if they were below the speed limit. The ACT has two sets, with more to come, for all vehicles.  On the Pacific Highway it is not that often that you can get a clear run between the cameras.

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/aboutthecentre/research/speedcameras/

[Down Under]

I wouldn't be surprised if the RMA in NSW flicks the switch to check the speed of all vehicles by average speed camera in the not too distant future!

Cheers,

Tony

[Biggles]

The reason for my observation is that there are now two types of signs approaching these gantries- one saying "Monitoring speed and fatigue" and the new ones that bother me distinctly different and saying "Average Speed Camera".  So I don't think you can dismiss them all as applying to heavy vehicles.

[gaz]

 

[Shiney]

I haven't met anyone that has received a ticket in relation to these cameras yet

[Whizz]

Average Speed Cameras can be used in any combination because they are all controlled by the same central computer system, so they can go 1 to 2, 3 to 4, or 1 to 3, or 2 to 4, or 1 to 4, whatever they want to do to knick you! Be Aware!!!

[Biggles]

The only two references I can find for NSW are

http://ols2.rta.nsw.gov.au/ebus/docs/rescat/pdf/10/1399/45094861pttptppost.pdf
dated Feb 2010

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/downloads/point-to-point-factsheet.pdf
dated May 2012

Both indicate they target only heavy vehicles.  My problem arose with the new image on page 1 of the first pdf.  Even though it's dated 2010, I hadn't seen it on my previous trips through NSW in the past 3 years.

Another quaint notion is the fact that a ping by a Police hand held in the middle of an "Average Speed Camera" section will be additional to the infringement awarded by the timed cameras.  There is provision to appeal and only have the higher infringement applied, but no guarantees.

The Victorian gummint is much more forthcoming:

http://www.camerassavelives.vic.gov.au/home/cameras/camera+systems/hume+freeway+point-to-point/

They admit there are instantaneous cameras on those gantries, as well as the timing cameras.

 Oh for the simple life of Cops with hairdriers.   

[Brock]

I heard of a case where a guy pinged by the average speed devices took it to court, and won. It seems that some one forgot to sync the clocks on the puters so the time of logging wasnt correct, so the average speed was wrong. Apparently error dated back to installation of the system, and a lot of money and points had to be refunded. Also some one was wearing a new orifice I think.....

[Down Under]

The reason for my observation is that there are now two types of signs approaching these gantries- one saying "Monitoring speed and fatigue" and the new ones that bother me distinctly different and saying "Average Speed Camera".  So I don't think you can dismiss them all as applying to heavy vehicles.

In NSW your safe for now Biggles.  It's legislated that the RMA can only infringe heavy vehicles with average speed cameras.  Heavy vehicles are defined as any motor vehicle with a GVM in excess of 4.5 tonnes. 

 

[Biggles]

In NSW your safe for now Biggles.  It's legislated that the RMA can only infringe heavy vehicles with average speed cameras.  Heavy vehicles are defined as any motor vehicle with a GVM in excess of 4.5 tonnes. 

Ah good!  I'll come back and visit then.  Probably early tomorrow morning before it gets too hot.

[bluehonda]

Late last year the RMS closed down an interstate trucking company at Port Macquarie (owned/run by OMCG) as a result of speed and logbook offences that were proven by overhead time and distance cameras.  Speeds of 130kph common.  One driver had in excess of 30 hours between 125 and 130kph.
Can't disagree with getting trucks/drivers like this off the road.

[BigTed]

Hiyas, I'm not aware of any average speed cameras on Perth (yet). However, I reckon if they're going to monitor your speed, average cameras may be better. Since they take an average over a relatively long distance, the average speed for which they might fine you is going to be less than the maximum speed you might actually be doing through a specific point.

EG. an increase of limit plus 10 for 15 seconds: 5 overtaking events on a 11km stretch (minimum length in NSW it seems according to one of the links above) of monitored road would only have an increased average of about +2.5km/h (if my math is correct).

This is also assuming you don't slow down below 100 km/h at any point (ie. perfect overtake with no wait for straight road of on-coming traffic, etc.) which is probably unlikely.

In the end, it does depend on what the threshold is for fining you. They may reduce their average speed threshold to catch more.

[ruSTyEB]

Yes, averages I think are a better way to catch genuine speeders.

If you are stuck behind a slow car for 2 minutes doing 90 in a 100 zone, then overtake at 130 briefly for 20 seconds, the average for that 2 minutes 20 seconds is still only 95.71 km/hr, well below the posted 100km.

To go over the 100km average you'd need to do that 130km/hr for 41 seconds.  Then if you got booked, well.....   

[atoyot]

Managing fatigue may also include things like working out if breaks could have been taken. Could data be used as evidence of fatigue in relation to blame for MVAs? Heavy vehicle or not? If breaks weren't taken, then the average speed would be way higher. Hmmmmmm

[Biggles]

Yes, averages I think are a better way to catch genuine speeders.

If you are stuck behind a slow car for 2 minutes doing 90 in a 100 zone, then overtake at 130 briefly for 20 seconds, the average for that 2 minutes 20 seconds is still only 95.71 km/hr, well below the posted 100km.

To go over the 100km average you'd need to do that 130km/hr for 41 seconds.  Then if you got booked, well.....   

There's still that death-defying 20 seconds of terror!
And they do place mobile radar units within the timed zone, just to catch boy racers like you.   

[ruSTyEB]

Yes, averages I think are a better way to catch genuine speeders.

If you are stuck behind a slow car for 2 minutes doing 90 in a 100 zone, then overtake at 130 briefly for 20 seconds, the average for that 2 minutes 20 seconds is still only 95.71 km/hr, well below the posted 100km.

To go over the 100km average you'd need to do that 130km/hr for 41 seconds.  Then if you got booked, well.....   

There's still that death-defying 20 seconds of terror!
And they do place mobile radar units within the timed zone, just to catch boy racers like you.   

True, but I would look for that law-enforcing obstacle before engaging warp drive...... Make it So