Someone needs to pull their head in!

[Damien ball]

Well said kev i had a near miss near fernvale on my way to work a week ago with a car overtaking two cars at once on double lines. The reason the double lines were there is because it was going in to a corner and thats why he didn't see me coming the other way.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

[Nigel]

I only just came across this thread whilst checking the up coming rides, so I'm a little late, but I'll risk the criticism by throwing in my 2c.

Of course double lines are put there for a reason, but they have to take into consideration all road users.
This includes for example, a truck that wants to overtake another truck. Of course they can't single out special overtaking sections specifically for fast accelerating motorcycles.   

So my opinion is that common sense and circumstance prevails.

Common Sense geez I`d love to experience that. Don't see too much these days, nor a bit of courtesy.

Everyday we all see the amount of numbnuts on the road, and that's all users, cars bikes trucks, expect them, allow for them and ignore them, its important not to get caught in their stupidity . Enjoy the drive/ride

[STroppy]

Hmmmm . . . Never break the road rules . . . Simple . . .

 Consider this: travelling along the road approaching a T intersection. You are on the continuing section of road and turning onto the leg of the T . . You turn and lo and behold just as you get on to the new road there are some parked cars against the kerb (more then likely they are illegally parked) and smack down the middle of the road for 250 meters are double lines. The road is not wide enough to go around the parked cars witout crossing the double lines. A couple of cars have followed you around the corner and are right behind you.

What would you do?

Common sense says if safe, go over the doubles and continue on, however if you never, ever break the road rules you could be sitting there for a long time? Or is there a road rule that allows you to cross over double or an unbroken line?

A similar situation would arise if you were going to a house on the other side of the double lines.

[Brock]

Dopending on the State, I think under those conditions , and it is safe to do then crossing the double line is permitted.

[STroppy]

Dopending on the State, I think under those conditions , and it is safe to do then crossing the double line is permitted.

Thanks Brock. I assume that, in those States you refer to, the times or conditions whereby one may legally cross double or an unbroken line are clearly stated?

[Brock]

Here is the link to WA Rules.

http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines

[STroppy]

Terrific info Brock, I am happy with that . . . Also gave me some new info re the edgeline. Thank you.

[Brock]

Also of note is the bit that pertains to those of us who Marshal pushbike events, is the bit about OK to cross the doubles to pass pushies if safe to do so.

[ppopeye]

Quote from: STroppy on November 25, 2016, 06:57:23 PM<blockquote>Hmmmm . . . Never break the road rules . . . Simple . . .

 Consider this: travelling along the road approaching a T intersection. You are on the continuing section of road and turning onto the leg of the T . . You turn and lo and behold just as you get on to the new road there are some parked cars against the kerb (more then likely they are illegally parked) and smack down the middle of the road for 250 meters are double lines. The road is not wide enough to go around the parked cars witout crossing the double lines. A couple of cars have followed you around the corner and are right behind you.

What would you do?

Common sense says if safe, go over the doubles and continue on, however if you never, ever break the road rules you could be sitting there for a long time? Or is there a road rule that allows you to cross over double or an unbroken line?

A similar situation would arise if you were going to a house on the other side of the double lines.
Hmmm. First thought is to redefine never break the rules: to never deliberately and culpably break the rules. In the case above you dont have a lot of choice.
Second thought is that common sense isnt that common.
Third one is that not many drivers/riders in any state know the correct way to cross or not a single continuous line. Stay safe everyone.

[Greencan]

Hummm...thoughtful read.

Interesting isnt it to re-ride a road which once was divided by a majority of single broken line marking only to find it has been re-surfaced and in some cases, widened and vast lengths single white line replaced with double white lines and the overall speed limit reduced as well. I believe this is done to keep us safe and that the judgement to replace broken lines with unbroken double lines is made from a worst case scenario, regardless of its risk percentile.

Much like the now education standards in Australia which contribute to us being the clever country which are working sooo well. 

Just a thought, the can :-)

[Williamson]

A few anecdotes re. road rules from me.

Anecdote 1

Back in the 80's one of my Road Traffic Authority (VIC) colleagues was tasked with the responsibility of writing a plain English, easy to understand / follow version of the road rules.

Something where you didn't need to read a rule, eg. Rule 197, section A, sub-section (i), go to end of rule, read exceptions, go to definitions, put in book-marks, go backwards and forwards, and forwards and backwards from book-mark to book-mark, and then still not understand.

After six months he had shortened the 480 page road rule booklet, to over 750 pages.   TRUE

Anecdote 2

Skip to the early 2000's, I sat on a committee compromised of State Road Authority and Police Department representatives from each State and NZ, and a Local Government representative from Victoria (me).

At one meeting, there was much discussion about the interpretation of double lines.  The NSW Police rep. advised that he would not instruct his officers to penalise a driver for turning right or U-turning over double line, his reasoning was that the NSW road rules did not prohibit such manoeuvres, the rule prohibited driving to the right of double lines, not crossing them, and crossing them was not driving to the right.   TRUE

Anecdote 3

Skip 5 years or so, VicRoads was holding a Workshop to introduce the new rule re. continuous lines (to align with other States).

The Workshop was attended by Local Government reps (me again) from Melbourne metropolitan Councils and Police Regions.

After around a one hour presentation by three or four VicRoads reps, PowerPoint slides, videos and white-board examples on what drivers could do, couldn't do re. continuous lane lines, edge lines, centre lines, etc. we were asked, "Are there any questions?"  Most questions were relevant, some mundane.

One question from a Police Traffic Management Unit Senior Sergeant was interesting, "What's the definition of a continuous line?"   VicRoads answer, "There isn't one, when applying the road rule a Police officer need to apply some judgement and discretion."

TMU Sen Sgt, "Well if I can see the end of the line, it's not continuous, and I won't be instructing officers to issue a penalty notice for crossing a line if they can see the end of it."  TRUE

Anecdote 4

Skip to present day, in my current office (still in Local Government) there is still discussion re. the difference between continuous or continual.  TRUE

Mind, this only occurs when I get bored, feel like a laugh and want hear the brainiacs argue.   TRUE

Might be time I retired.   TRUE

[Greencan]

Might be time I retired.   TRUE

Oh! In that case before you pick up your bat n ball and beetle off...any chance of getting all the 'C' road line marking in Victoria the same as the C543? 

[West Aussie Glen]

Here is the link to WA Rules.

http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines

From that link:-

"If the centre/dividing lines are continuous, do not cross that line unless you are turning right (i.e. to leaving or entering the road) or making a U-turn. The same applies if there is a continuous line on the left of a broken or dotted centre line"

I always thought it was illegall to do a U turn over a continuous line???

[ppopeye]

From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules

[STeveo]

From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules

You know that will never happen in our lifetimes. 

[Gadget]

From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules

A nice idea, it is supposed to be happening which is why NSW got rid of yellow unbroken lines and Victoria changed their give way to turning vehicles laws.

Until the Feeds are give sole jurisdiction to set the rules, there will be discrepancies.

Cheers,
Gary

sent using another of Gadget's gadgets.

[STroppy]

Yellow lines are still used in the Alpine areas for obvious reasons . . .

It is absolutely rediculous that Australia's road rules differ from State to State/Territories . . There many things that should be uniform across our country . .

[Lionel]

When the six states federated in 1901 they gave the new federal government specific (but concurrent) powers (most in s51 of the Constitution) and these did not include vehicle traffic legislation.
Gadget is correct. The states will have to agree to the federal government taking the lead.
Practically, the federal government usually achieves consensus by issuing/withholding grants (bullying tactic) with the result that the states pass their own legislation adopting the federal legislation. There is nothing to prevent the same states changing their minds at a later date.
Australia's territories were not parties to the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia, and they do not have the same powers as the states. The territories are even more dependent on the federal government for funding and by inference more susceptible to interference by the federal government into domestic legislation.

[alans1100]

It is absolutely rediculous that Australia's road rules differ from State to State/Territories . . There many things that should be uniform across our country . .

http://www.ntc.gov.au/roads/rules-compliance/the-australian-road-rules/

The Australian Road Rules

The Australian Road Rules (ARRs) contain the basic rules of the road for motorists, motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, passengers and others.

The NTC reviews the Australian Road Rules annually.

Background

The Rules were first approved in 1999 by the former Australian Transport Council (now the Transport and Infrastructure Council). The Council consists of the ministers responsible for road traffic matters in each state and territory, and of the Commonwealth Minister responsible for transport matters.

These are model laws that have no legal effect. They form the basis of Road Rules of each Australian state and territory. For the most part, each state and territory has copied the Rules into their own laws, however, not every provision of the Rules has been copied exactly in each state and territory. Also, there are a number of provisions in the Rules that specifically leave certain matters to state and territory governments to determine.

[curious1]

Somebody is talking common sense and not the holy bible. With 200hp on 350kg all up you can and do  safely what is stupid in a car. Most any car.

Of course double lines are put there for a reason, but they have to take into consideration all road users.
This includes for example, a truck that wants to overtake another truck. Of course they can't single out special overtaking sections specifically for fast accelerating motorcycles.   

So my opinion is that common sense and circumstance prevails.
[/quote]

[Gatey]

Why is this topic in this section? really after all this time and its been moved to ozSTOC evenets  national and local???
This is not an event of any more significance than someone getting a tax return with a cheque.

THIS is not an EVENT. Its not a ride in or an RTE or a FarRide or an IBA or a date for a few riders to meet for a coffee. Its not a new modle release in your home state or anything thats even close to an event. Its a moan and a hissyfit in the first place.
IT does not belong in here.
And if your not keeping one step ahead of the shit drivers ,riders and taxi driversuni students and dumb prickson the roads in this country with its piss poor learning and road education ethics then your just a targator.


This topic still needs to be moved back in the general population. Its not an event of significance for this state.

 

[alans1100]

This topic still needs to be moved back in the general population. Its not an event of significance for this state.

I would have thought it should be in "General" or "Off Topic"

[Brock]

Good point Gatey, no-one has picked that up. A common problem when you read hundreds of new posts.

It will be moved now.

[Gatey]

Hi Brock
Nothing wrong with the guys who have to wade through all this stuff/ posts etc. More to do with New Topic osters getting their topic in the proper place in the first place Brock. You obviously keep a close eye on all posts mate. Well done.
Are you getting a ride in this long weekend?

[Brock]

Not a long weekend for me, work as usual on friday, tho I may just ride to work...