Bundy and Bearings

[Wild Rose]

Hey RuSTyEB - great spot mate. Your vigilance as you pointed out, may have saved you an adventure of another kind! - The 'over the handlebar' kind!     

Well done, and thanks for sharing as you can see how this has benefitted other fine Members of this Club.     

Cheers, Diesel

 

[Old Steve]

It lines up with the information I have.  You could ask the bearing place about the grease seals, as I think they might be available as a plain and with grease seal.  The UU on the part number might be the seal version.  Let us know what you find out.

rear wheel bearings
List of interchangable (hopefully) generic bearings for the ST rear wheel.
Fafnir        - 204KPP
Hoover        - 99204
MRC           - 204SZZ
Nachi         - 6204-2NSL
New Departure - 99504
SKF           - 6204-2RS
NTN           - 6204LL
The key is the 204, which indicates the size of the bearing. The ND 504 size isn't familiar, either a typo or ND is trying to pull a fast one on us.
Another note: the two rear bearings are different sizes, and this is for only one of them -- the cheaper one. The other is a dual row bearing. Someday I'll try to get the whole story.

Part nos for the double row bearing:
Honda 91053-MN5-003
MRC 5204 CZZ   
front wheel bearings
Honda part numbers:

   91-96     6004UU
   after 96  6204UU
Same bearing on both sides

Bearing numbers all mean something.  Metric bearings go:

First number is the type of bearing, 6 in this case means a single row ball bearing. (7 is a single row angular contact, 5 is a double row ball, 3 in a 4 figure number is a double row ball angular contact, 3 in a 5 figure number is a tapered roller)

Next number means the ration or weight of the bearing, 0 = light, 2 = normal, 3 = heavy.  The same bore bearing will have larger OD and width as this second number goes up from 0 to 3.  There are extra light series where this number is 8 or 9 and these are becoming more common where space is a premium and the load isn't high, like bicycle wheels.)

Third and fourth number is the bore:
00 is 10 mm
01 is 12 mm
02 is 15 mm
03 is 17 mm
then 04 is 20 mm and the bore is 5 times the number

Commonly you'll find two 6 series (single row ball) bearings in a motorbike front wheel, and usually the 6000 series which is light.

In a rear wheel you'll find a double row or double row angular contact bearing to take side thrust.

The letters at the end of a bearing description indicate a feature on the bearing, different manufactures tend to use different letters for rubber seals, but the sytsem generally goes like:

ZZ are two metal shields
2RS are two contact rubber seals
LL and UU are two non-contact rubber seals (I think, though might be LLB and VV)
NR is a circlip groove and circlip
ZNR is a single metal shield and a circlip grove and circlip ion the other side
C2 and C3 refer to the inner clearance between the ball and the races

Hoover, Fafnir, MRC and New Departure are American companies so can't use an international standard nomenclature system properly, their numbers don't follow the rules above completely.

When you get into big industrial bearings, like double row spherical roller self aligning bearings you'll get a whole alphabet after the bearing number describing the features of the bearing like the cage design, how many lubr holes through the outer race, if there's a grease groove, what internal clearance they should run at, if the bearing has a tapered bore and if so what taper it is, and so on.

[Turtle]

Thanks old Steve for that bearing information

The shop got back to me and it's no go with price and availability looks like America is getting the order people let me know how you guys go with prices and delivery

Turtle

[Tipsy]

  py
Ok so I will jump in here and sugest that we all put our cash now so as not to put any financial strange.
All we need is some banking details to start with.
Dont forget freight to each person as well.
Once I have the details I will deposit $100 .
Tipsy.

[Flip]

Guys,
Guess that while my ST1100P - '96 Ex- WA POLICE bike is in bits, new radiator, steering head seals, nuts and washers, etc. all on the way over from the US - might as well get all the wheel bearings done as well. 

So the only question now is who's sending off this proposed bulk order and is there any idea, at this time, of the estimated cost for full replacement bearing, front and back wheels, for a '96 Honda ST1100P ?

Like Tipsy, be glad to put the money up front as soon as the details are available. 



Just one other question, due to a bad experience with wheel bearings in the past - just what brand and quality bearings are we looking at buying ?   

Years ago before I woke up to reality and brought my ST, the bike I had was a somewhat scary Honda CBR600F3. (98?) The previous owner had it set up for track racing.
He used it for only a couple of Club 'track days' before deciding road racing motorbikes was just a bit too fast and dangerous for his liking. 

On a Ulysses Club Sunday ride a few months later, down shifted and opened the throttle just a small amount to 'cruise' around a corner only to be told afterwards by other riders that the front tire had at least 10cms between it and the black top all the way through the corner, about 150m distance all together - totally unintentionally and without my knowledge, didn't feel it lift off or come back down again either !        After that, took things VERY easy and carefully.

Because I wasn't 100% sure of the bikes prior history, a week after I first brought it, put it in for a full service and total check over. Replacing the tires, chains, sprockets and all the wheel bearing, by a well known Honda shop here in WA soon after buying that CBR600, guaranteeing to use only genuine Honda parts and do everything exactly as per the Honda workshop manual.
About 4 months later the ball races in the front wheel self destructed on a quiet Sunday cruise back to Perth from New Norcia.    
By a 'quiet Sunday cruise', I meant just that - at no time did the engine get over 8000RPM in any gear and we never even went over the 110KPH speed limit.   

Needless to say after being told by that shop it wasn't any of their fault the bearings failed and I'd have to pay the full cost all over again myself to have them replaced, I don't go to that particular Honda outlet any more.   

That's why I'd like to know what brand and quality of bearing are being considered this time for any bulk purchase.   


Thanks in advance,

Ian W.  (aka Flip)
Maddington.
W.A.




 

Still sitting quietly at home. 

[Yorkie]

Any brand of sealed bearing does not have enough lubricant, presumably it was a sealed bearing fitted as most are these days.

[Brock]

In my days of repacking bearings for high speed alternators in fighter aircraft (Mirage ), the book said pack it full, then remove about 2/3 then put the seals back in. If over filled, the liquefied grease will escape past the seals, and may push the seals out.  Not good in an aircraft, not so bad in a bike or car.

Trailer bearings not so critical.

[STeveo]

The bearing experts may disagree, but I always flick the rubber seals out with a small flat blade screwdriver and pack more 'high speed' wheel bearing grease into any new bearing that I fit. The rubber seals pop back in easily with a couple of thumbs.

 

[Wombat]

A couple of questions at this point. These bearings are standard sealed bearings. where are the seperate seals. I left my manual at work! have we got a price from national or CBC bearings and seals from Transeals etc. I tend to known brand bearings in crucial items as wheels. A lot of the kits have non branded bearings. Thanks for all the hard work TURTLE.

 

[ruSTyEB]

Parts and cost as per Honda Toowoomba :

91257-may-003 $8.83  dust seal 28*42*8
91258-ML7-003 $11.75 dust seal 45*55*5
2 x 6004 $9 each.

Total parts for front wheel $38.57

[ruSTyEB]

Oh,  and wheel back on,  too her for a run.  Could be in my mind for but bike feels great,  very responsive,  different to before bearing replacement.

Question though on wheel install ,  the manual talks of clearance from pad to rotor being 0.7mm but nothing I did could get me more than 0.3mm.   Anyone have an experience where not enough clearance caused an issue.?   On my run the bike seemed to brake no different than before.

[Turtle]

Can you get a rear cost rusty please looks like a rip off from the dealer here in Perth

Turtle

[Old Steve]

Actually sealed bearings need incredibly little grease.  I've seen more bearings fail because of overgreasing than I've seen sealed bearings fail.  Overgreasing causes the grease and thus the bearing to heat up, reduces the internal clearance, preloads the bearing and induces premature bearing failure.  Also overgreasing can pop the seal and allow dirt to enter the bearing.

Probably the bearing manufacturer uses a polyurea complex NLGI 2 bearing grease.  You'd most likely use a lithium or lithium complex NLGI 2 general automotive grease.  Luckily these two greases are compatible so no serious damage would be done.

I once had a set of drive wheels fall off a truck and trailer just after the truck had unloaded its load of coal.  Someone had put more grease into the wheel bearings with the workshop grease gun, the grease already in there was incompatible with the grease gun grease and turned to a sludgy liquid, leaked out the seals, the bearing ran dry, heated, cracked the stub axle and off fell the double wheel.  Half an hour earlier that truck had been doing 90 km/hr down a crowded motorway loaded 45 tonnes all up.

[STeveo]

Actually use a HTB (high tempture bearing) grease and I don't load them to the point of pushing out the seal, just add a bit more. Since doing this I have never had to replace a bearing from over heating or lack of grease failure. I also pop the seals and add a wee bit more clean grease every time I change tyres. Do you think that my extra greasing could do any damage to wheel bearings or am I just wasting grease?

 

 

[Brock]

If you want to repack the grease, its best to clean out the existing grease first to prevent mixing of non compatible greases. once clean and dry ( clean out with kero will do ) pack till the bearing is completely full, and then using a finger remove the grease on each side until the ball can be seen, the grease left should have a U shape.

Rotate the bearing a couple of times to ensure the balls are lubricated, and refit the seals. Never rotate a dry bearing, as the surfaces can be damaged.

[Yorkie]

I heat bearings in oil, this removes all the old crap then start from scratch.
Had no problems in 20 yrs in the RAN so I still do it.

[ruSTyEB]

Can you get a rear cost rusty please looks like a rip off from the dealer here in Perth

Turtle

Turtle, just picked up a rear bearing set from Toowoomba Honda

91053-MN5-003 - Bearing (OEM) $36
QUEST 6204 Bearing $7.55
91253-443-761 - Dust Seal - $18.97

Total $68.77