Horses for Courses ST1100 or ST1300?

[Kev]

I particularly like the way this guy explains various things about m/c riding, techniques, etc....I came across this video of him making a comparison between the two bikes (1100 & 1300)

Now I have never had a ride on the 1300 so I will not comment in relation to them, or, make any judgement between the two for pretty obvious reasons...

Anyhow, this is 'one' persons view...from what appears to be a well informed person....

st1100 vs ST1300 Pan European

Cheers

Kev

[Down Under]

I think he sums it up pretty well.  I've never experienced the wobble with a top box in clean air but I've found the ST1300 a little skittish in dirty air around highway traffic.  A better rear shock goes along way to making the bike feel more stable but I agree that the 1300 could do with a rework in the wind tunnel. 

Yep...the stock seat is a shocker.  I've managed to get my hands on a spare riders seat which I intend to reshape, as he suggested, the nose of the seat needs building up and the rear needs to be flattened and widened to make it more comfy.  The fuel mapping isn't brilliant but is easily lived with once you get used to it.

All in all a fair comaprison. 

[Skip]

When looking for a tourer after my sports bike, my first test ride was on an 1100. I returned saying I couldn't live with the turbulence I felt. I felt nauseous from my head being buffeted so much. Obviously everybody is different. No doubt an aftermarket screen would have been a solution. Other than that is was a very nice bike. The 1300 was really out of my budget but I scored a bargain a short time later, hence I'm on a 1300. The electric screen is a real winner for me. I've come to realise there is no such thing as a perfect bike. In 'dirty air' there is still some buffeting on the 1300 but not overly disconcerting. It's about what you want from a bike and your budget. If you're happy, then that's all that counts. However, Honda is a great product in whatever form, right down to their lawn mowers. Having said that, I have owned all major Jap brands and never had any major issues with any of them. Even had one of those red Italian machines once, but I got sick of walking while owning that one. Mine however, was in the era of the black and gold ones.
I'll have the 1300 for a long time, as long as I am confident I can hold it upright.
Cheers.
Skip.
My 2 bob's worth.
Skip.

[Shiney]

I have owned both the 1100 and 1300 The following is my opinions on the bikes.

Power: The 1300 is more powerful then the 1100 but is touchier on the throttle, the 1100 is smoother and higher geared resulting with lower rpm at higher speed.

Seating: The seat on the 1100 does have more range of movement, you can slide around more as the seat is longer making it quite comfortable.
The 1300 seat has three height settings which is a nice feature although it has a slightly forward sloping angle leaning you towards the tank, I found this to be a pain but there is a trick to level it out thereby rectifying the issue.
Fix: Put the seat up into the second or third height setting, lift the rear of the seat and push forward a little, drop the rear locater pins into the slots of the lower setting thus making the seat flat, I have found this to make the seat as comfortable as the 1100. Or just go for an aftermarket seat.

Handling: The 1100 feels like a bigger bike it has solid handling, is predictable, easy to manage and sure footed, able to handle pretty much anything thrown at it. The 1300 is just as good but feels lighter and smaller, it is easier to throw around and feels sportier. (The first corner I took on the 1300 I almost dropped it on its side, it just was so easy and eager to lean, a bit of acceleration fixed this and the side of the bike stayed off the road.)

Speed wobble: I haven’t experienced this at all on my 1300 but I know it happens, although it is rare. This is non existent on the 1100.

Size: Both bikes are big in size but easy to lane filter/split and as the bloke in the vid said if the mirrors will fit the bike will.

Panniers: The storage on both bikes is awesome. The 1300 has lots of storage space but 1100 was better, the shape of the panniers on the 1100 makes it much easier to pack.

Electrical things: The 1100 (the one I had anyway) has a weak alternator, this can be replaced but is very hard to find. The 1300 has allsorts of electrical gismos, the headlight height adjuster is electric (not much of a difference but nice) lots of info on the digital display (kilometres per litre, air temp ect) but the big bonus is the electric windshield, if it is cold or raining or if there is lots of bugs/dust put it up and it provides amazing protection, put it down and get a nice amount of airflow or put it anywhere in between anytime you feel like it.

Heat: I found the 1100 put out a bit of heat but not much. The 1300 puts out a lot of heat, there is lots of things that can be done to fix this but I just haven’t had the time/money to do this yet. That all being said the heat the 1300 can put out isn’t unmanageable it can just be a bit uncomfortable. When ridden non stop for hours on end it will become fairly hot but stopping for a break now and then for a few minutes will cool it down a lot.

Age: The 1100 I had was a 1990 model and offcourse things were going to start needing fixing/replacing (electrics ect). I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade to a newer ST before this happened. I took the 1300 for a test ride when I was looking at a new helmet and I really liked it, even more then the 1100 so I got it. Both bikes are awesome machines and I would recommend either of them to anyone.

This is just what I have found with the two STs I have owned, others may have had different experiences with theirs and I hope they will post what they have experienced.

Cheers
Shiney

[Skip]

Good on ya Shiney. Nice write up.

[Biggles]

Having owned one 1100 and two 13s, I'd agree with most of what he says.  I haven't experienced the high speed wobble, but then I'm not up for the kind of speeds I think they're talking about.  The 13 is certainly twitchy in "dirty air" and I'm always keen to get clear of bulky vehicles, including fourbies (especially the ones driven by the blonde species).  He's right about the CG being lower in the 11, which is a good thing.  Regarding the digital display- it's a waste of electricity!  I preferred having the voltmeter on my 1100P than the computer stuff on the 13.  It's mostly unreadable in daylight, except for the fuel bars.  And its accuracy is dubious in most parameters.  I'll never know why Honda hasn't gone to the black on white LCD displays that are excellent and wouldn't cost any more.
Oh to be allowed to filter like that.  And he was doing it in moving traffic.  How civilised.  I wonder if the culture that allows it is derived from the fact that more of the legislators rode bikes at some time in their lives, and therefore don't suffer the "envy syndrome" that plagues our oxygen thieving pollies?   

[saaz]

Good comparison from an owner of both.  Basically the ST13 is newer so that is a fact of life.  Can't run on diesel but haven't tried the ST11 as yet 

I test rode an ST13 on the snowy ride and from that brief introduction could easily live with it (at idle it sounds funny though!).  I could also live with a GTR1400 and FJR1300 as well.  For me a practical question is what I can I swap over to the new bike.  As some things will swap to any other bike or not swap to anything else, I have an open mind. For some reason Honda is really stingy on giving extras on the STs that are standard on other bikes.  The VFR1200 is a case in point, as I quite liked it (powa! and brakes mostly) but it has really basic instruments and options compared to the competition.  I suppose it comes down to what I got does more than I need so no compelling reason to change until old age really sets in - by which time I may be too far gone as well 

That said, if Kawasaki did a GTR with the full ZX14 motor or Suzuki did a Busa with a shaft, I may be sorely tempted.  All the reviews on the BMW1600 leave me a bit cold on it, and I really want to like it.

[Shiney]

Having owned one 1100 and two 13s, I'd agree with most of what he says.  I haven't experienced the high speed wobble, but then I'm not up for the kind of speeds I think they're talking about.  The 13 is certainly twitchy in "dirty air" and I'm always keen to get clear of bulky vehicles, including fourbies (especially the ones driven by the blonde species).  He's right about the CG being lower in the 11, which is a good thing.  Regarding the digital display- it's a waste of electricity!  I preferred having the voltmeter on my 1100P than the computer stuff on the 13.  It's mostly unreadable in daylight, except for the fuel bars.  And its accuracy is dubious in most parameters.  I'll never know why Honda hasn't gone to the black on white LCD displays that are excellent and wouldn't cost any more.

Right you are Biggles I forgot to mention the 1100 is a lot more stable when passing/being passed by trucks and other bulky vehicles (lower CG)
I agree the digital display isn't very easy to read in daylight I can still read it most of the time but hell yeah it would be a LOT better black on white

Oh to be allowed to filter like that.  And he was doing it in moving traffic.  How civilised.  I wonder if the culture that allows it is derived from the fact that more of the legislators rode bikes at some time in their lives, and therefore don't suffer the "envy syndrome" that plagues our oxygen thieving pollies?   

If only it was like that here

[Diesel]

Thanks for the great comparisons guys.

Honda designed the 1300 with these things in mind for a sportier sports tourer:

- a shorter wheel base (snappier handling)
- lighter (better power to weight)
- lower C of G (I thought - see 'relocation of alternator, lower fuel tank, etc etc) (better handling)
- meaner angle of attack on fork rake angle (quicker steering)
- a couple a hundred more CCs (can't beat cubes)
- sleeker design (supposedly aerodynamically superior! - yeah right!)

This is what the brochure reckons anyways.

I agree that the offerings of long distance riding aids is 'sparse' to say the least for a great long distance beast, but there are no end of add-ons available (at a price) to combat this.

Mainly that damned OEM seat! What were they thinking???     

I guess long distance in Japan is 60 or 70 clicks!       

Cheers, Diesel

[Dan]

Thanks for the great comparisons guys.

Honda designed the 1300 with these things in mind for a sportier sports tourer:

- a shorter wheel base (snappier handling)
- lighter (better power to weight)
- lower C of G (I thought - see 'relocation of alternator, lower fuel tank, etc etc) (better handling)
- meaner angle of attack on fork rake angle (quicker steering)
- a couple a hundred more CCs (can't beat cubes)
- sleeker design (supposedly aerodynamically superior! - yeah right!)

This is what the brochure reckons anyways.

I agree that the offerings of long distance riding aids is 'sparse' to say the least for a great long distance beast, but there are no end of add-ons available (at a price) to combat this.

Mainly that damned OEM seat! What were they thinking???     

I guess long distance in Japan is 60 or 70 clicks!       

Cheers, Diesel

I always like the lighter and more powerful bit - apparently Honda asked their customers what they wanted in the new 1300 and this is what they were told.  Honda gave them something like 5kg less (on a 300+kg bike) and 5hp more!  I think Honda might have missed the mark a bit.... 

I like heavier bikes when they are moving, but the ST11 is a heavy pig at a standstill.  Personally I would like to see the bike 50kgs lighter. 

For me the 11 or 13 question came down to one thing - $$$$ 

[alans1100]

This taken from

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_ST1100

ST1100 production began in 1990 and ended in 2002,. A revamped model, the Honda ST1300 (also called the Pan-European) became available in the US in 2003. The ST1100 was conceived, designed and developed by Honda Germany as a continental sport cruiser. Later models have a huge 7.4-gallon gas tank that sits between your ankles, to offer better handling due to a low center of gravity. It gets up to 54 MPG. The ST1100 is a much better designed and more comfortable long-distance bike than the Japanese-designed ST1300 or any of the newer BMWs that need a rear Paralever to do what the ST does without one. (I have owned all types of BMW's over the last 40 years.) A key problem with the ST1300 is that it throws off large amounts of engine, exhaust, manifold and radiator HEAT onto the rider's legs, whereas the ST1100 does not. The ST1100 is the bike preferred by police in most EUC countries, due to its handling, range, reliability, speed and comfort. The ST1100 has one of the best stock seats ever made for a motorcycle; a fully adjustable and BRIGHT headlights, and some of the best vibration-free mirrors. I love it for the torque from the 90-degree V4 that is so smooth, solid and balanced.


Maybe the design team in Japanese wasn't as good as the German team.

Not sure if I'd agree with the seat reference but it's better than what my CX500 was. One thing I notice with my 1100 is that it doesn't like the turbulent air behind an 18 wheeler. After nearly 6 years I haven't got used to the weighty feeling at walking pace speeds, especially riding two-up and I can only just manage a u-turn riding two-up (rare event)

[terrydj]

When bought my ST 1100 it was to replace BMW K100 and I wanted a bike that had everything that worked.  Replaced the seat because it was crap, and cutting the screen down to near nothing, made the Bike perfect.
I can sit it on, what ever speed I want all day long, and it does what I want, when I want it, irrelevant of conditions or environment. As anyone who's seen it will tell you it's not the prettiest bike their is, but I can use it every day, and everything on it works. 
Suppose its horses for courses, but for me at the present time, the only bike I would replace it with, would be a Wing.  Which will probably be my next bike anyway.

[Diesel]

I can sit it on, what ever speed I want all day long, and it does what I want, when I want it, irrelevant of conditions or environment. As anyone who's seen it will tell you it's not the prettiest bike their is, but I can use it every day, and everything on it works. 
Suppose its horses for courses, but for me at the present time, the only bike I would replace it with, would be a Wing.  Which will probably be my next bike anyway.

Here here!

Rumour has it though mate - the part that connects the handlebars to the seat may need an overhaul tho!