OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grumpy on January 11, 2014, 05:09:07 PM
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Well, it had to happen. On my way to town (40km away), just come on to the longest straight, and "snap", no power and engine has shutdown. COast to a stop and had to wait about 2 hours for someone to come and pick me up with a trailer (what an ignominious way for an ST to travel). Yep the first guess was correcy, the timing belt broke. The bike has 216,000 kms and my guess is that it is the original belt. At least it's not a huge cost to fix. :'( noriding for me for a few days at least. :fp
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.... the timing belt broke.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - that's a bummer....
.... not a huge cost to fix.
Gunna fix it yourself?
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Grumpy,
Thanks for clearing up that question for us. (ie how long does a belt really last).
I lost my nerve at 175,000 kms and enlisted Saaz and another mate to change the belt for me.
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Yep, I'll fix it myself. Have access to a good motorcycle mech if I need it. Maybe to get the timing right. Will probably respray it while it's all apart, save me doing it again. Have decided I will paint it a Ford "Kinetic" blue, which they do the XR falcons in now.
As for the age of the belt, it is pretty brittle and is a Honda belt, so could well be original.
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Thanks for completing that experiment for everyone! :grin
We've all wondered how far past the recommended mileage the belts will go. Most of us get nervous around the 120,000 kays mark, but you've shown it's still got plenty life to go from there. Which every belt inspection has confirmed.
Here's hoping the valves didn't drop into the cylinder at the wrong time for the pistons. Would probably have made a nasty noise if they had.
Goodonya for doing it yourself. The guides on the net are comprehensive.
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A "snap" is better than a "bang" though. :eek
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Gee very lucky, timing belts going usually means bent valves etc etc etc. Usually not a cheap or easy fix.
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Well, it had to happen. On my way to town (40km away), just come on to the longest straight, and "snap", no power and engine has shutdown. COast to a stop and had to wait about 2 hours for someone to come and pick me up with a trailer (what an ignominious way for an ST to travel). Yep the first guess was correcy, the timing belt broke. The bike has 216,000 kms and my guess is that it is the original belt. At least it's not a huge cost to fix. :'( noriding for me for a few days at least. :fp
:runyay
So you're celebrating his misfortune?
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You're very lucky indeed if there is in fact no damage to the engine >:(). Fortunately the ST1300 doesn't have a timing belt, they now have timing chains (as do most vehicles these days), which only require replacing if they start to kick up a stink (rattle). Not much fun being stuck on the roadside for a couple of hours, but I'd be counting my lucky stars if I were you!! :grin
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Is Gaz bored or is he trying to get his number of posts up quickly? :crazy He has marked nearly every post today with an emoticon
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I lost my nerve and got the timing belt done on mine at the last major service, 180,000
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Is Gaz bored or is he trying to get his number of posts up quickly? :crazy He has marked nearly every post today with an emoticon
Apparently he thinks it's funny. I'll spare you my thoughts.
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OK then :grin
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Well, while it was only a snap and not a bang, seems they don't go bang and lock up on you. 14 out of 16 valves bent. Will be sourcing from the US as they are about one tird of the price here. Honda price on ex valves is $93.00 ea. For that price they would want to high grade titanium or ceramic. Will keep you posted about repair as it progresses. In the meantime one very sad St'er :'( :'(
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Hope you will be fixed and ready for National rally, fingers crossed for you :popcorn
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Bugger! :cuss
Well, while it was only a snap and not a bang, seems they don't go bang and lock up on you. 14 out of 16 valves bent. Will be sourcing from the US as they are about one tird of the price here. Honda price on ex valves is $93.00 ea. For that price they would want to high grade titanium or ceramic. Will keep you posted about repair as it progresses. In the meantime one very sad St'er :'( :'(
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Well, while it was only a snap and not a bang, seems they don't go bang and lock up on you. 14 out of 16 valves bent. Will be sourcing from the US as they are about one tird of the price here. Honda price on ex valves is $93.00 ea. For that price they would want to high grade titanium or ceramic. Will keep you posted about repair as it progresses. In the meantime one very sad St'er :'( :'(
A rare occasion when you wish there were only 2 valves per cylinder and it was a V-Twin.
Sorry- sounds exy. :eek
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Very exy if you buy the parts in Aus. From a US honda dealer they are about one third the cost even with the freight added.
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Not the first time l have read about a time belt breaking on an ST1100, the last was attributed to a water pump seizure which caused the belt to fail. Another was put down to a lose belt being 'fixed' by levering the tensioner into a position to thus remove the excess slack in the belt.
Sorry to read of your wows :-(
Just a thought, have U considered either buying a wrecked bike or engine or heads, then reconditioning / rebuilding the engine as a whole?
Good luck, the can:-)
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Sorry to hear your news Grumpy and I hope you can get her back on the road at a resonable cost and in a reasonable time. I guess there is a lesson for us all in your misfortune.
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Gee very lucky, timing belts going usually means bent valves etc etc etc. Usually not a cheap or easy fix.
Not much satisfaction in saying that your news didn't surprise me. Have you though about the option of trying to pick up a low klm 2nd hand motor? Might be worth making a few inquires.
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are using the gates belt # T325 lots cheaper
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Thanks all for your wishes and advice.
Yes I do wish it was only two valves per cyl, but then it wouldn't go as well.
I can source new valves, seals and carby rubbers from the states for just under $500.00 shipped, so probably won't bother with a used motor.
Went with the Gates belt, abt $42 as against Honda who want $208.00 for the same belt.
I've got it all torn down ( looks very sad :'( ) and cleaning up while waiting for parts. Also a good opportunity to check all those things that are hard to get at when it is all in one piece. You find some interesting things though. Someone has put a car size fuel filter in, but they got it in backwards ( despite it being marked with an arrow that says "CARB" on the case) so it hasn't been filtering much.
Hoping to respray it while I got it apart as well. Depends on money > Paint ain't cheap either.
Anyway looking forward to parts arrival and getting it all back together.
Then RIDE, RIDE!! :bl11
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You could go down in history as one of the first to remove the heads from an ST.
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At least it sounds like you know what you're doing.
Probably a lot of ST11 owners here looking forward to your findings. e.g. piston carbon build-up, valve seat condition, etc.
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And lots of pictures.....
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I can source new valves, seals and carby rubbers from the states for just under $500.00 shipped, so probably won't bother with a used motor...I've got it all torn down ( looks very sad :'( ) and cleaning up while waiting for parts.
How are the pistons looking? Wot thuh
I only ask as they are only bog ordinary alloy forgings and as such are quite soft, they don't need to be anything more. But there inlays the conundrum...any wack to the top of em usually results in a bruising which invariable results pinching the top compression ring in it's groove and occasionally the second and oil rings as well...quite common in motorcycle engines :-[.
Anyway just a thought...and if you are looking...http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Honda-ST1100-ST-1100-Pistons-and-Connecting-Rods-/120882775607 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Honda-ST1100-ST-1100-Pistons-and-Connecting-Rods-/120882775607) :wink1
...hence my post on considering an engine replacement / refurbishment
Ciao the can :-)
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They look pretty good. When I took the heads off, there was only the smallest of marks on the top of the pistons where the indents are that correspond to each valve. It seems that once the valves had bent, they didn't touch anymore, and it didn't run very far before I pulled the clutch. So they should be OK.
Thanks for the info though.
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Thirty bucks for 4 pistons, rods etc. He's not out to get rich quick!
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You're right about that Biggles. Even with the $60 odd dollar shipping.
Anyway here's a couple of pics of the heads and pistons after dismantled and cleaned up.
(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/GularGrumpy/ST%20Repair/IMG_0399_zps3026eb0e.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/GularGrumpy/media/ST%20Repair/IMG_0399_zps3026eb0e.jpg.html)
(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/GularGrumpy/ST%20Repair/IMG_0398_zps5470b079.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/GularGrumpy/media/ST%20Repair/IMG_0398_zps5470b079.jpg.html)
(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/GularGrumpy/ST%20Repair/IMG_0397_zps9612cd12.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/GularGrumpy/media/ST%20Repair/IMG_0397_zps9612cd12.jpg.html)
(http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab283/GularGrumpy/ST%20Repair/IMG_0396_zps90b3f011.jpg) (http://s872.photobucket.com/user/GularGrumpy/media/ST%20Repair/IMG_0396_zps90b3f011.jpg.html)
The carbon build up was minimal on both the pistons and heads. The valve seats on the exhaust valves were not the cleanest, but that will be remedied with the new valves of course.
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1990 ST1100L
...well if the pics are or this bike, that's pretty good :thumb
All the best with it :wink1
Ciao, the can :-)
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:grin :grin :grin :thumbs
Well all happy again. The ST back up and running. Purring like it never happened!!
Didn't get a chance for pics other than those already posted. Pretty straight forward job really. Only a few little odd bits here and there. Happy to help anyone who decides they want to get that deep into their engine (or needs to :'( ).
Ya gotta love the engineering though.
:wht11 (BTW we need a silver ST1100 here).
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:runyay.
Good to hear Grumpy.
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Great news there Grumpy :beer
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Well done on the open heart surgery. A bit of a pioneering there.
Hope no one else has to pick your brains.
Just heed your experience and change the belt at 120,000 kays or live in hope.
Seems you can get away with it for quite a long while, but then...
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Thought I better update on the patient recovery.
All running well and have now put close to 1000 kms on the rebuild. Things are settling in nicely and the slight ticking of the valves is reducing every time I ride ( I set the valve clearances at max to allow for the valves to seat in ).
Next job is to sync the carbs which needed doing before the rebuild anyway.
Now to get some more rides in and get it all back to normal. Love being able to run in at highway speeds :runyay
:wht11 (still need silver 1100)