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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Biggles on September 27, 2013, 03:46:30 PM

Title: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on September 27, 2013, 03:46:30 PM
We all know Harley riders give their throttles a good twist for every down change.
But we also know their gear boxes were supplied by Massey-Ferguson, Hastings-Deering or John Deere, depending on the year and model.

What do you have to say about the subject?    :popcorn
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: West Aussie Glen on September 27, 2013, 03:59:36 PM
So automatic that I will have to go for a ride to see what I do.
Taught to blip when in the car on the track when I did my CAMS license
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Marcus on September 27, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
No... unless there is a reason which I'm unaware, then it's just showboating for the sake of showboating
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: StinkyPete on September 27, 2013, 04:04:34 PM
I blip on some down-changes, particularly if the engine revs or speed is high, but if drifting up to a red traffic light or a stop, I usually don't.  Like Glen, it's a bity automatic for me, as I was always taught to blip and double-declutch when driving a manual car, and I often still do it without thinking.

It's interesting that the engineers who design cars will say that double-declutch is not necessary, mechanics will say that it is unnecessary, but driving instructors (in my day) would recommend it, and bashed it into us.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Bikebear on September 27, 2013, 04:21:00 PM
Is it possible to cancel a vote? My touch screen was a bit sensitive and recorded a vote when I scrolled.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: saaz on September 27, 2013, 05:20:58 PM
I would blip most of the time to match the next gears road speed to what I am doing. Less strain on the gearbox and drive components.  Now if I had a slipper clutch I might just bang on down the gears.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Brock on September 27, 2013, 05:27:06 PM
Quote
Is it possible to cancel a vote?

You can now remove your vote if you made a wrong move.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: alans1100 on September 27, 2013, 05:27:37 PM
In days gone bye when non-syncho boxes were the norm double clutching/blipping on down changing was a necessity. Most cars since the 40's had at least syncho between 3rd and 2nd (e.g. Holden).

Most motorcycle gear boxes are constant mesh so there's no real need to blip on down changing if your're slowing down and using engine braking (I just release the clutch a little slower). On the other hand, down changing to go up a hill a slight blip of the throttle would be the norm, at least for me.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on September 27, 2013, 06:02:32 PM
Good answers. 
References to double-declutching reflects the age demographic in here.   :grin
Also the reference to the dear old Holden column change that had three gears and synchomesh only between second and third brought back memories.  One vehicle I drove in my youth was a WW2 Blitz truck (converted to a mobile crane for timber handling).  It had the ancient and many blessed crash gearbox that forgave nothing.
Pleased to see Alan's perceptive observation that bikes have constant mesh gears, so really, the only reason to rev is for saaz's point- it reduces the load on the gearbox and clutch.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Streak on September 27, 2013, 06:04:41 PM
agreed with Biggles, i was brought up to do what saaz said, just to simply reduce stress  :thumb
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Brock on September 27, 2013, 06:12:30 PM
You need to change down???????.

 :eek :eek :eek
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on September 27, 2013, 06:25:49 PM
You need to change down???????.

 :eek :eek :eek

The STs actually will move off from stationary in top gear if you work them hard enough.  The ST13 readily departs in 2nd and doesn't flinch at 3rd.

So you're stuck in which gear, Brock?
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: alans1100 on September 27, 2013, 06:35:49 PM
You need to change down???????.

 :eek :eek :eek

The STs actually will move off from stationary in top gear if you work them hard enough.  The ST13 readily departs in 2nd and doesn't flinch at 3rd.

So you're stuck in which gear, Brock?

I've had few seniors moments where I've taken off in 2nd. It's ok with the bike on its own but its happened when towing the trailer once or twice as well,  :think1 did I put that much in the trailer?
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Yorkie on September 27, 2013, 09:05:11 PM
I only find a need to blip if changing down a gear to overtake, keeps the revs up.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on September 27, 2013, 09:57:12 PM
I only find a need to blip if changing down a gear to overtake, keeps the revs up.

That's a very good point.  Otherwise there's a brief sag unless you are bringing up the revs as you let the clutch out.
My clutch in/out time frame is so brief I think I use the latter technique.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: royst1100 on September 28, 2013, 01:44:02 PM
my pipes ohhh my pipes sound great when I change down. the bigger grips also I loose small amount of clutch movement but ohhh those pipes sound great   :H :grin
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: DaleMcLean on September 28, 2013, 04:31:44 PM
my pipes ohhh my pipes sound great when I change down. the bigger grips also I loose small amount of clutch movement but ohhh those pipes sound great   :H :grin

MY sentiments exactly  o:), Dont have the grip trouble though.

Yes all bikes have constant mesh gears (even 35 year old Ducati's  :rofl) BUT the blip helps reduce shock loads on the rest of the drivetrain, in my case the cush drive between rear sprocket and wheel  :thumb
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: saaz on September 28, 2013, 04:40:20 PM
I agree bliping the throttle is not needed to change gears these days, but in the case of the STs it reduces shock lods on the cush drive, splines and drive shaft.  Probably does not matter much if you only keep the bike for 150,000kms or so  :wink1  but I look on a longer time frame  :wht11
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Couch on September 28, 2013, 10:59:08 PM
No..........I never do!   I bring up the revs as I let the clutch out and my gear changes are smooth whether changing up or down. I've had a motor vehicle licence for 55 years and driven many hundreds of thousand of kls during that period, many of them in manual change vehicles, I still drive a manual change Honda Civic Sport, and I've never had a drive train or clutch problem in any vehicle I've owned. I will admit that in the early years it was necessary to double clutch and rev the FJ Holden when dropping back to first as well as a few other vehicles that never had syncro on first, but I've never felt the need to do so with syncro on all gears. I don't knock anyone who does, but, the question was asked, and I for one don't!! :grin
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Couch on September 28, 2013, 11:03:25 PM
 :rofl

my pipes ohhh my pipes sound great when I change down. the bigger grips also I loose small amount of clutch movement but ohhh those pipes sound great   :H :grin
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Shiney on September 29, 2013, 08:32:29 AM
I also do it quite often :hatwave

:think1 I started doing it when I first started riding due to the reasons mentioned above,
but now I also do it because the pipes sound awesome :grin :runyay
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Couch on September 29, 2013, 09:11:48 AM
Hmmmm............now, if I had Delkevics :think1........hmmmm! :grin

I also do it quite often :hatwave

:think1 I started doing it when I first started riding due to the reasons mentioned above,
but now I also do it because the pipes sound awesome :grin :runyay
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Diesel on May 10, 2016, 11:55:42 AM
Apparently... you should blip.....     ;-*


http://motorbikewriter.com/learn-blip-throttle/?ct=t(Newsletter_10_05_16) (http://motorbikewriter.com/learn-blip-throttle/?ct=t(Newsletter_10_05_16))
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Marcus on May 10, 2016, 12:04:09 PM
Apparently... you should blip.....     ;-*


[url]http://motorbikewriter.com/learn-blip-throttle/?ct=t(Newsletter_10_05_16)[/url] ([url]http://motorbikewriter.com/learn-blip-throttle/?ct=t(Newsletter_10_05_16))[/url]


Is that what all the cool kids are doing?
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Diesel on May 10, 2016, 12:10:03 PM
Yep. And so am I.    ;-*
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: spanner on May 10, 2016, 01:41:12 PM
nope.

And in all honesty 99% of the time I cant see the reason. I go in hard and leave hard but I feel the engine braking works well with the speed of my entry/exit to tight corners etc.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on May 10, 2016, 02:43:52 PM
I still don't rev to downshift, and I never have clashed or grinding gears.  Sometimes I click down through 2 gears and still no dramas.
I think it's all about finding an excuse to rev noisy engines which has moved from a fad to a claimed mechanical necessity.  Next thing they'll be double-declutching through neutral.    :fp
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Brian on May 10, 2016, 03:08:39 PM
I witnessed something similar on a recent rte (farmers Arm) commodore driver reving the engine prior to switching of his V8......... In an effort to fit in with the locals I followed suit unfortunately lacked the same impact ..... n that..
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Biggles on May 10, 2016, 03:22:57 PM
I witnessed something similar on a recent rte (farmers Arm) commodore driver reving the engine prior to switching of his V8......... In an effort to fit in with the locals I followed suit unfortunately lacked the same impact ..... n that..

Once upon a long time ago folk used to do that to ensure the carbie float bowl was full for the next start.
Not a lot of carbies been fitted to vehicles lately...
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: johnnyYTED on May 10, 2016, 04:02:48 PM
:dred11
I'm a bit like others and will have to observe how I do.. coz its automatic...
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: STroppy on May 10, 2016, 04:38:27 PM
Next thing they'll be double-declutching through neutral.    :fp

Strange that you should mention that . . . .
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Nigel on May 10, 2016, 06:25:37 PM
Have to say that I would normally give her a bit of a blip when changing down, to overtake at higher speeds. Like at 100 down to 4th to get all into sync for open throttle to make for safe overtaking. In normal riding the burbs not particularity though. :wht11
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: spanner on May 11, 2016, 09:02:25 AM
Have to say that I would normally give her a bit of a blip when changing down, to overtake at higher speeds. Like at 100 down to 4th to get all into sync for open throttle to make for safe overtaking. In normal riding the burbs not particularity though. :wht11

i think that is a different kettle of fish. When changing down for more power in an over taking or cornering mode I will give a little blip but for general changing down when approaching a corner I want to take at relative safe speed or coming to a stop or generally slowing down in traffic I see no need to blip.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: Diesel on May 11, 2016, 09:23:14 AM
I mainly blip at slower speeds (suburban residential type roads) to try and match the engine and drive speeds when re-enagaging the clutch, for a smoother slow-down for traffic lights or to take a corner.

I am under the impression that this also extends tyre life (as compared to letting the rubber do that job).

Blipping when out on the highway or gearing down for sharper turns on mountain roads also helps the tyre keep its maximum traction when the clutch is re-engaged.
Title: Re: Changing down
Post by: alans1100 on May 11, 2016, 12:19:35 PM

I am under the impression that this also extends tyre life (as compared to letting the rubber do that job).

I did read somewhere that with braking systems being what they are on bikes now that just using brakes alone when slowing or stopping prolongs your tyre life. Just hold the clutch in and down change as you slow down so you're in the right gear if you don't need to stop.