Author Topic: TCS ABS odd behaviour  (Read 5011 times)

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
TCS ABS odd behaviour
« on: May 27, 2018, 05:27:05 PM »
Hi, looking for some comment on this. Didn't use the '97 1100 for a few weeks, and the the battery died on me, so that was some time without any battery. Now, I don't know if that was the cause of the odd behaviour, but when i put the new battery in and took it for a run the TCS amber and ABS red lights flashed continuously. I stopped and switched off, tried again - same result. Stopped, switched off, back on, turned the TCS off, still got red on the ABS. I tried all combinations of switching the ignition/TCS on/off and still got red or flashing red and amber lights. As a final WTF attempt to do something to make this go away, i switched the ignition off while travelling then back on - and it was all OK after that!??  :crazy  The TCS would turn on and off, the warning lights worked as they should and the bike was fine.  I have checked for loose bolts on the TCS pickup and brakes but all seems OK there. Now, I'm about to disconnect the battery for a couple of months as I'm not going to be able to ride it for a while, and I was wondering if anyone could comment on that odd behaviour from the TCS?  :think1 Will i get it again when i reconnect the battery and ride again in a couple of months? Any idea what caused it?
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline alans1100

  • 1999 ST1100A
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6249
  • Thanked: 1161 times
  • Alan, Peterborough, SA
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2018, 11:26:41 PM »
I haven't had anything like that happen to mine though over the years the ABS light has come on a few times. Generally coming to stop, switching off, restarting and riding off again would fix it.

TCS switch only turns the Traction control on or off - orange light.
ABS switch just stops the RED warning light from flashing but still showing red. -

Check the wheel sensors/ring front and rear for anything (dirt etc.) that could upset the systems. Is the wiring to or from the sensor ok - no apparent damage?

Just a guess but if it's both ABS and TCS together then more likely sensor related as it's the only thing they have in common.

I thought about a tyre size other than OEM but I've run 1300 rear and some dealers have fitted a 160/60 (not advisable in my book) to the rear and have never had an issue with either ABS or TCS.

Turn the TCS off if it happens again and see what the ABS does
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 
The following users thanked this post: mikep

Offline Sicman

  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2988
  • Thanked: 602 times
  • Was here when the lights got turned on :-)
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 09:37:30 AM »
  :think1 Is it possible to throw on a battery charger / conditioner so you don't have to drop the battery out?
Cheers
Tony
FarRider 802
NatRally's - 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 202🤬, 2🤬21, 2021/22 Black Dog bit me, 2023, 2024
Experience trumps assumption :-)
 
The following users thanked this post: mikep

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 10:32:01 AM »
Yes,  I've done that before, but we're away for a couple of months and I'm a nervous nellie when it comes to leaving unattended appliances on for that length of time. :-X
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline Sicman

  • RTE Coordinator
  • Supreme "2000" Club Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2988
  • Thanked: 602 times
  • Was here when the lights got turned on :-)
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 10:45:55 AM »
I use a CTEK one and have never had any issues  :thumb
Cheers
Tony
FarRider 802
NatRally's - 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 202🤬, 2🤬21, 2021/22 Black Dog bit me, 2023, 2024
Experience trumps assumption :-)
 
The following users thanked this post: mikep

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 10:47:24 AM »


Just a guess but if it's both ABS and TCS together then more likely sensor related as it's the only thing they have in common.

That sounds logical. l could see no issues at a quick look. We did get some rain which is so rare here that I never ride through a puddle,  but I did this time - maybe water caused it?

Turn the TCS off if it happens again and see what the ABS does
I did this,  the flashing amber stopped when tcs was off but came back when I turned tcs back on. The abs cancel button dimmed the red lights but they came back on after switching ignition off then restarting.
Maybe it's just some weirdness from the electronics,  not liking to have no power,  but then again I would guess that happens ever time I turn the ignition off and park the bike... :think1
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline alans1100

  • 1999 ST1100A
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6249
  • Thanked: 1161 times
  • Alan, Peterborough, SA
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 11:11:53 AM »

maybe water caused it?
Funny you say that.

Twice in the past few years I have gone to start the bike and all the lights go out. Wasn't to bad the first time as it came good but still unknown as to why.

The second time was just as puzzling and happened after the bike was washed. Got me thinking that water got into where it normally doesn't and it's all ok when it dries out. We did have some unusually heavy rainfall the first time but I didn't consider it as bikes and rain are generally ok together.

Been ok since then but I'm mindful of using excessive water when cleaning the bike.
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 05:16:39 PM »
Just back from a short ride,  the abs and tcs behaved badly again.  But, I am reasonably sure I've found the problem. A while ago I put a valve extender on the rear wheel cos it's a  bugger to get to for type pressure checks and inflation.  Somehow (meaning me) the right angle extender got twisted around and was striking the abs sensor lead, and although the lead is still intact and the insulation had not been cut through the lead is visibly damaged. I suspect the lead is broken inside or maybe the coil  (I suppose that's what it is) is damaged. The only way to know for sure is to replace it,  but I'm betting thats the problem, everything else is just coincidence. I don't get an amber light anymore,  but three tcs abs red lights are on all the time.  Crap!!  :cuss   Now,  where do I get a sensor?  Anyone wrecking a st1100 abs?
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline StinkyPete

  • Defected to a BMW
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6579
  • Thanked: 3009 times
  • Blackwood, SA
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 06:04:11 PM »
I hope you get it sorted.   Such problems are extremely annoying.    :fp
IBA #59146   OzLapper 2012 & 2019

BSA M21 600cc single (1948)
Yamaha XS650  (The Black Wobbler)
Yamaha XJR1300 (Rocket Ship)
Honda ST1300 (Beautiful Bike)
BMW R1200RT (Technically Perfect)
 

Offline Biggles

  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14121
  • Thanked: 2564 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 10:06:02 PM »
But, I am reasonably sure I've found the problem. A while ago I put a valve extender on the rear wheel cos it's a  bugger to get to for type pressure checks and inflation.  Somehow (meaning me) the right angle extender got twisted around and was striking the abs sensor lead, and although the lead is still intact and the insulation had not been cut through the lead is visibly damaged.

That's a classic demonstration of effective trouble-shooting:  "What have I done recently or just before I saw this new problem?"
So often it's our own fault that is showing up.
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 11:31:45 PM »
 Yes,  but it's still a bit annoying when it's your own fault for not thinking a bit more..    :fp  .At least I can still ride the bike,  after all not every bike had abs anyway.  But I will repair it though it's going to be a while before I get a chance to do so.  Are those sensors hard to come by? 1997 manufacture is a while ago....

I think I'll have a close look at the lead at the sensor,  it just might be fixable,  but if it's inside the sensor then it's a no go because the sensor is pottted in epoxy. 
Hmm, who would have thought that putting a valve stem extension would cause this much trouble,  clearly not me   >:()
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline alans1100

  • 1999 ST1100A
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 6249
  • Thanked: 1161 times
  • Alan, Peterborough, SA
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2018, 02:25:42 AM »
  Now,  where do I get a sensor?  Anyone wrecking a st1100 abs?
If you can't find then you'll need to go new.

This is the part number for the rear sensor 38510-MAJ-781 which includes the wiring. Priced it a local dealer for about $367 http://www.peterhillhonda.com.au/

Around $AUD260 delivered from here https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/38510-MAJ-781
1999 :bl11  2004 :13Candy

FarRider #921- BR15, BR17, CR1

 
The following users thanked this post: mikep

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 04:24:02 PM »
I found this info on the stowners.com site,  and following the procedure I have been able to confirm that the rear wheel sensor is indeed cactus.
http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?158284-ST1100-ABS-Fault-Finding

Somewhere in my searching I also found a thread that described using a different sensor which was a fraction of the price of the oem  one.  Ill have to try to find it again m it may offer an alternative.
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 05:11:13 PM »
On the same site I found member jimllbreakit who used,  successfully,  a Honeywell sensor,  1gt101dc. They're available from ebay or RS electronics and other places for around $90.  They are the same diameter,  3mm longer,  have a single bolt mount instead of  2. Sadly the single hole is about 4 mm further from the centre line, otherwise it's be a dead simple retro. A few minutes with a file should fix that small problem though.  Looks like a solution,  when I cam get back to it.  :beer
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline Shiney

  • Dave
  • Global Moderator
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6808
  • Thanked: 2396 times
  • RTE Coordinator - Strathpine, QLD
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 10:25:29 PM »
Awesome to see that you have found the issue :clap
Please let us know how you go with the Honeywell sensor.
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
OzSTOC #104   STOC# 8512   IBA # 59142
Find me in The Who's Who of OzSTOC!

I like shiney things :grin
One of the Dave, Dave, Dave and Duncan crew 8)
 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2018, 12:18:05 AM »
I'll do that, but it'll be about 3 months before I'm able to get on to it.   ++
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 
The following users thanked this post: Shiney

Offline Shiney

  • Dave
  • Global Moderator
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6808
  • Thanked: 2396 times
  • RTE Coordinator - Strathpine, QLD
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 03:31:17 PM »
I'll do that, but it'll be about 3 months before I'm able to get on to it.   ++

No worries mate :thumbsup
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
OzSTOC #104   STOC# 8512   IBA # 59142
Find me in The Who's Who of OzSTOC!

I like shiney things :grin
One of the Dave, Dave, Dave and Duncan crew 8)
 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2018, 11:08:07 PM »
I finally got round to fixing my ABS problem.  I got the 1GT101dc transducer from RS online for about $90, delivered in a few days after ordering.  The wire colors were different to the bikes,  but transducer red,  black and white went to the bikes black,  green and blue respectively. I guessed red and black for the + and- on the transducer, and with my multimeter got black and green for + and - on the bike.  The flange on the transducer did not mate to the bolt holes on the bike. The transducer is a couple of mm longer than the original but the same diameter.  I cut the flange  off the old transducer and filed it out to fit the new transducer body into the old flange. I had to cut the flange off the new transducer and file the lip down to half to get the right protrusion below the old flange,  then glued them together.  An easy fit to the bike,  a reset of the ABS fault code,  then off for a test ride.  No abs warnings or other oddities,  so I think that's me sorted. Not a big job,  but having read of others difficulties with their transducers getting frozen in the mounting hole I think I may also have been a bit lucky. Anyway,  job done. 😁😁
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 
The following users thanked this post: Shiney

Offline richo

  • Richo
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • Thanked: 394 times
  • ST 2009
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2018, 11:40:14 PM »
 :clap. Well done. 
Richo
 

Offline Biggles

  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14121
  • Thanked: 2564 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2018, 11:58:08 PM »
Impressive application of modification technology.  Good on you for taking on the dark arts.  (Although the techs on the Forum would regard the fix as basic, I know.)
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline hobs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
  • Thanked: 55 times
  • ST Legend
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2018, 10:53:47 AM »
Just back from a short ride,  the abs and tcs behaved badly again.  But, I am reasonably sure I've found the problem. A while ago I put a valve extender on the rear wheel cos it's a  bugger to get to for type pressure checks and inflation.  Somehow (meaning me) the right angle extender got twisted around and was striking the abs sensor lead, and although the lead is still intact and the insulation had not been cut through the lead is visibly damaged. I suspect the lead is broken inside or maybe the coil  (I suppose that's what it is) is damaged. The only way to know for sure is to replace it,  but I'm betting thats the problem, everything else is just coincidence. I don't get an amber light anymore,  but three tcs abs red lights are on all the time.  Crap!!  :cuss   Now,  where do I get a sensor?  Anyone wrecking a st1100 abs?



Be careful with the 'right angled valve tyre inflator extenders'. Had a couple on and one caused the inflator valve to leak through the valve stem. Must have stressed the valve due to centrifugal forces causing the stem rubber to split. Was an old valve, so may have something to do with it. Replaced both valves to right angle valves during tyre changes.


Cheers, Hobs
 
The following users thanked this post: mikep

Offline Biggles

  • "Top Dog" 10000 club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14121
  • Thanked: 2564 times
  • Bridgeman Downs, Brisbane
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2018, 12:26:41 PM »
Be careful with the 'right angled valve tyre inflator extenders'. Had a couple on and one caused the inflator valve to leak through the valve stem. Must have stressed the valve due to centrifugal forces causing the stem rubber to split. Was an old valve, so may have something to do with it. Replaced both valves to right angle valves during tyre changes.

Yep, that's a known issue referred to elsewhere on the Forum.  Unrelated to the brake ABS problems.  If you need to screw on the metal angle devices, you have to remove them after inflation (which costs a small loss of air).
For the modern man who lives in the city, riding a bike might be one of the only ways to escape the humdrum monotony. To take off and ride. To be both at one with nature and one with the bike. To feel masculine. Adam Piggott

OzSTOC #16  STOC #6135  FarR #509  IBA #54927
 

Offline mikep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Thanked: 31 times
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2018, 01:09:25 PM »
"If you need to screw on the metal angle devices, you have to remove them after inflation (which costs a small loss of air)."

That's a good idea. I must say I was a bit bothered by the thought of that extra weight under speed on the valve rubber when I put it on, it's quite long,  more than necessary as it only needs to be a right angle adapter not an extension. I'll take it off right now!    :thumb
1997 green ST1100 ABS
previously owned;
Honda CBX1000
BSA 650 Lightning
 

Offline Shiney

  • Dave
  • Global Moderator
  • UNBELIEVABLE "5000 Posts" Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6808
  • Thanked: 2396 times
  • RTE Coordinator - Strathpine, QLD
Re: TCS ABS odd behaviour
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2018, 09:53:16 PM »
Awesome work mikep, thanks for sharing mate :-++
My Ride: 2023 ST1800   :thumb
OzSTOC #104   STOC# 8512   IBA # 59142
Find me in The Who's Who of OzSTOC!

I like shiney things :grin
One of the Dave, Dave, Dave and Duncan crew 8)