NEW POLL - Should we be able to Lane Split or Lane Filter?

[SToz]

I voted yes.

But are we all in that much of hurry where 5 minutes ACTUALLY makes a difference????

[Biggles]

I voted yes.

But are we all in that much of hurry where 5 minutes ACTUALLY makes a difference????

As pointed out by Brock, sometimes it's substantially more than 5 minutes.
e.g. coming down the Bruce Highway from the Sunshine Coast when there has been an accident on a Sunday afternoon.  The traffic jam can go for "miles".

[SToz]

 

There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........

There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? 

[WendyL]

There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........

There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? 

We even have traffic lights and roundabouts , not that drivers know how to use either......

[gaz]

There's only one intersection in Darwin that I filter at.........

There's more than one intersection in Darwin???? 

We even have traffic lights and roundabouts , not that drivers know how to use either......

It all to scary (crazy drivers i.e.; arms sticking out, parking to close to each other, road debris plus mad sports bike people) and PC Plod loves issuing fines. I ride big ass cruiser with wide handle bars, so the fit can be a bit squishy.

[bloodbikes]

There are always fors and against on this subject, I voted yes but as a pom like streak said we benefit from lane filtering in the UK, whilst riding and driving the roads of Australia and assessing the skills of riders and drivers alike, lane filtering can pose a hazardous position as in Australia you can legally pass on the left where in the UK you cant which makes things slightly unsafe, I was surprised to learn that Aussie drivers aren' taught to drive, they are taught how to pass the driving test, that's why we complain so much about the idiot drivers who never see us. Lane sharing in cities should be allowed for motorcycles and buses, bicycles have their own rules which are unbeknownst to no-one. So I think lane filtering should be allowed but left up to the individual rider if he or she feels confident in their skills to attempt this manouevre.

[Shane]

Hi I agree with Diesel i think it would be OK for some small width bikes but i would proberly not do it on a ST

[bloodbikes]

Sorry shane, but whats the difference between a small width bike and an ST, the onus is on the skills of the rider not the size of the bike, if i thought i could get through a gap safely i'd probably go for it, whereas filtering between 2 truck and trailers would clearly be stupid whether your on an ST or small width bike.

 

[Whizz]

I'd just like to point out that the topic is whether we should be allowed to lane split or filter, i.e. that it becomes a voluntary choice, not that we are forced to do so whether we want to or not. I am all for having the choice to do something, instead of having some faceless public servant (now there's an oxymoron if ever I heard one) decreeing that he thinks I shouldn't be able to.

This practice is carried out safely in many other parts of the world, but our nanny state obviously doesn't think we are grown up enough to make up our own minds on such complicated matters. I think it patently obvious that if your bike is too wide to fit through a particular gap, or you have misgivings about doing trying to make it fit, then you won't do it...and if you do try it then Darwinism steps in and the problem is quickly (and usually finally) resolved.

A famous author once wrote that it is the duty of all 'Government" to govern as little as possible, not as much as possible, unfortunately our lot (Federal, State and Local) all seem to have missed that point entirely.

My second 5 cents worth.

[Shaun]

A famous author once wrote that it is the duty of all 'Government" to govern as little as possible, not as much as possible, unfortunately our lot (Federal, State and Local) all seem to have missed that point entirely.

My second 5 cents worth.

A sentiment I generally agree with. However, like all arguments of the type, there are complications. There is one school of thought that the government should make no laws impinging on the individual's right to do whatever they wish with themselves, as long as that right does not interfere with the rights of others. Lane filtering and splitting would fit into this category for the most part, as there are other laws that kick in if something goes wrong (insurance, third party, liability, etc). Using this line of logic, there should also be no law compelling one to wear a helmet, or a seatbelt, or to refrain from taking drugs.

The problem is, however, there ALWAYS is someone else affected, whether indirectly or directly, when something goes wrong with an individual exercising free choice. Someone's life is changed forever when they knock you over on the bike while you were lane splitting, without a helmet, with a beer in your hand. The government (ie the taxpayer) foots the bill when you head into hospital after overdosing, or fly out of the car in far worse shape for not wearing a seatbelt. It is never just YOU.

Having spent a bunch of time in Thailand (Bangkok mostly) during the last holiday, I have seen how simply leaving it up to the individual to choose what they wish to do literally leads to carnage on the roads. Are we too protective? Are they not protective enough?

Buggered if I know.

[Shiney]

.... Are we too protective? Are they not protective enough?

Buggered if I know.

The answer is YES and YES

[Whizz]

Shiney +1 and +1 

[Shaun]

So we are too protective here? Lane filtering/splitting should be allowed then? Should we also be allowed to choose whether to wear helmets also? Ride at whatever speed we wish? What is the difference between the issues?

They aren't protective enough? What laws should they pass to be more protective? What enforcement should take place?

[Brock]

Shaun,

I have spent a bit of time in Thailand, (Have I mentioned that I will be going for 5 weeks again over easter??) and yes their driving riding seems chaotic (it is somewhat) but strangely it some how seems to work for the most part. Regular travellers (if they want to remain sane in the traffic) learn to adapt to the Thai way. (Malaysia was similar, I survived driving there for 3 Yrs) I regularly drive in Thailand, and as long as you expect bikes to come at you on the left, (and occasional cars n trucks) you should do fine.

The trouble with the Law Makers these days, is sthat they are legislating away personal responsibility.

[Whizz]

Brock, I totally agree with your comment about being legislated out of existence. The government are simply trying to justify their own existence by continually passing new laws...makes them look like they are actually doing something instead of simply sucking up tax payers money and acting like a bunch or badly behaved 12 year-olds.

And Shaun, Yes, Lane Splitting/Filtering should be allowed, and you might as well try to lump murder and rape into the same bucket as lane splitting and wearing a helmet, both are at opposite ends of the spectrum and not in any way comparable. The other side of your argument is that the government should legislate to make riding motorbikes illegal because people get killed doing it every year. Follow this with making smoking illegal, and having children out of wedlock illegal, or having more than one child illegal (oh wait didn't someone do that already??) and..... When is enough enough with legislation? This is where the concept of free will has to kick in and people need to be allowed to using the grey lump of stuff between their ears to make choices that are relevant for them.

...and is this the 5 minute argument or the full half-hour?

Anyway, with that I will comment no further, simply because of boredom. This topic is becoming a circular argument with two opposing views where neither camp is likely to persuade the other to change, ergo stalemate and rapidly diminishing levels of interest! I'd rather be doing it than talking about it.

[Shaun]

A cursory look over some stats reveals the following:

Road Fatalities per 100,000 vehicles
Australia: 8
Thailand: 118

Granted that is only one stat, and stats can really be made to say anything you wish, but as they go, that is a rather dire one.

Regardless of anything else, that is 110 more families that lose a loved one, and I doubt they will find the Darwinian interpretation a compelling or comforting one.

All I really wanted to highlight is that issues like this are not so black and white as they may appear, and that laws that are there, even laws I don't agree with (such as, for the record, prohibition on lane splitting and seatbelt enforcement) may well be preventing 110 families per 100,000 vehicles some pain.

And Whizz, I did mention earlier that I am talking about laws that don't impact on others. Rape and murder generally do, as a rule. Sorry for boring you. Next time I will simply agree with everyone, lol and post a smiley.

[Brock]

Last year during Songkran (Thai new year) a 5 day period, there were about 253 deaths in Thailand due to traffic incidents (drink driving?? its a major problem in Thailand). No doubt the result will be similar this tear. New year is also a bad time. Some of these deaths are also tourists in the party towns who think they can get away with drink driving/riding, but that is another story/thread.

[alphafang]

I voted Yes for two reasons one I'm a Brit and do it anyway and see it as an advantage. Second unless I vote I can't see the result....

[saaz]

NSW is trialing filtering in the Sydney CBD.

[Biggles]

NSW is trialing filtering in the Sydney CBD.

Let's just hope and pray the local boys do the right thing and that there are no accidents or incidents.
It would only take one to put the kibosh on it.

[Diesel]

Yeah - it might take a few months for drivers to grasp the art of stopping in the centre of the lane to fit bikes through, instead of the normal raggedy anne formation.

[Biggles]

A while back when I was still lane splitting thinking it was OK, a fair few drivers would move over a little to let me through. 
Of course there was the occasional Bogan with the arm out the window who would let rip with an opinion as I passed.  A well aimed ciggie butt could prove unpleasant, and I've seen a few of those flicked out at the lights.
I've mentioned once before how a truck driver gave me a disapproving toot as I pulled up beside him at the front.  I hit the Stebel airhorn back at him and he had a good laugh.