Author Topic: Dropped Helmet Discussion (Read 5485 times)

StinkyPete · « **on:** April 10, 2015, 09:25:38 AM »

I have dropped my Shoei TZ-R full face helmet, without my head being in it I might add. It went from a height of around one meter and landed on smooth concrete onto the very top of the crown.

I can't even see a mark or scratch where it hit.

There is a train of thought that a dropped helmet is instantly rendered unreliable and should be replaced, as the shell may have hidden damage. While this arguement may have some logic, it may also be encouraged by helmet manufacturers in the interest of more sales.

On the other side of the ledger, in a crash a helmet is certainly going to sustain multiple impacts, and would be designed to withstand such events.

Some facts would be helpful in this discussion, and I ask for your thoughts and evidence regarding potential damage to a helmet when dropped, and advice about my need to spend $600 on a replacement.

Marcus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2015, 09:45:50 AM »

I've lost count how many times I've dropped mine.

Quote

On the other side of the ledger, in a crash a helmet is certainly going to sustain multiple impacts, and would be designed to withstand such events.

That's my thinking as well, pretty poor design if it can't live through wear and tear of every day life.

Quote

There is a train of thought that a dropped helmet is instantly rendered unreliable and should be replaced

If this was the case Adventure bike owners would have to replace their helmet Every Single Time the went out.... Cause... you know... they fall over a lot

Tipsy · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2015, 10:21:07 AM »

py
When I did my Q-ride licence thingo I was told when my helmet fell of my bike that
If a helmet falls 900mm or more that it was now considered to be no longer safe.
As far as I am concerned if that was the case then it was not good enough to start with.
They should be able to withstand a fall of 10 metres or more .
Or from a distance as to reach the velocity of a crash of at least 80 kph and still be ok.
just my 1/2 a cent view

T n T

jimwilly · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2015, 10:42:27 AM »

When I was working as a Ridersafe instructor we would tell students that a drop from the height you stated would require replacement.
It could cause unseen damage to the internal impact absorbing material.
Would I replace my helmet after an accidental drop? No.

Tipsy · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2015, 10:46:59 AM »

py
My concern is if it is no good being dropped from a height of 900 mm
then its not going to save my head from serious injury in an accident of
more 25 kph.

I prefer to travel somewhat faster than that

T n T

Marcus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2015, 10:51:12 AM »

Quote from: Tipsy on April 10, 2015, 10:46:59 AM

py
My concern is if it is no good being dropped from a height of 900 mm
then its not going to save my head from serious injury in an accident of
more 25 kph.

I think the issue is not whether it would survive. But whether it's now weakened structurally due to the drop, and therefore would require a much less of an impact to smash your head open

StinkyPete · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2015, 11:04:57 AM »

I found this post on a 2009 forum, which seems to shed some light on the subject.

"I watched a video clip recently with Jay Leno and Bruce Porter from Arai. Bruce was asked the question about a helmet being dropped. His response surprised me but makes sense. Basically he said that the key to a helmets performance is the liner and that the shell is to spread the load more effectively. The design is intended to protect with an approx 12lb object in the helmet (head) and that a minor drop of an empty helmet would have minimal to no effect on the protective qualities of the helmet as the liner would have had no compaction. Cosmetic damage only in most cases."

And this...

"Ride magazine took four identical brand new HJC helmets to the BSI labs and subjected each to a BSI impact test. Just prior to the test one was dropped from 3feet one from 6 and one from 9. They could find no discernable difference in the test results between a non dropped and a dropped from 9 feet lid. you work it out."

Advice from Snell

"I dropped my helmet! Do I have to go buy a new one?"
Generally the answer is probably not. Helmets are one-use items, but are quite durable otherwise, at least the ones we certify. Frequent dropping or spiking a helmet on the ground, or other hard surfaces may eventually degrade the helmet's performance. Similarly if the helmet falls to the ground at highway speeds unoccupied, the owner must be aware that some degradation may have occurred. In general, the real damage comes when the helmet contacts an object with a head inside. The Foundation recommends that if you are participating in an activity that requires that you wear a helmet, you avoid hitting stuff with your head. It can be difficult to readily determine if a helmet has been damaged, and the protective capabilities compromised without a thorough inspection by a trained professional. Some manufacturers may provide this service or direct you to these others that can perform these inspections. The Foundation recommends that if you suspect your helmet may be compromised, then replace it. If the helmet has been involved in an impact while in use, replace it.

WendyL · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2015, 11:16:57 AM »

Quote from: StinkyPete on April 10, 2015, 11:04:57 AM

I found this post on a 2009 forum, which seems to shed some light on the subject.

"I watched a video clip recently with Jay Leno and Bruce Porter from Arai. Bruce was asked the question about a helmet being dropped. His response surprised me but makes sense. Basically he said that the key to a helmets performance is the liner and that the shell is to spread the load more effectively. The design is intended to protect with an approx 12lb object in the helmet (head) and that a minor drop of an empty helmet would have minimal to no effect on the protective qualities of the helmet as the liner would have had no compaction. Cosmetic damage only in most cases."

And this...

"Ride magazine took four identical brand new HJC helmets to the BSI labs and subjected each to a BSI impact test. Just prior to the test one was dropped from 3feet one from 6 and one from 9. They could find no discernable difference in the test results between a non dropped and a dropped from 9 feet lid. you work it out."

All very logical. I did replace mine after it was dropped from 1.5m onto tiles, it had decent chips out of the shell so didn't want to risk it (by the way, it wasn't me who dropped it!) but have not replaced helmets that have just been knocked or dropped of the seat of the bike.

saaz · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2015, 04:01:24 PM »

I think Pete and Wendy's post cover things well. My HJC flip helmet fell off the seat onto hard ground, but it was the click mechanism that held the chinbar up that broke on one side. Made it a non-flip helmet in practice, so as it was a few years old it is no longer in use, especially if the plastics in the rest of the helmet were that fragile.

Skip · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2015, 08:52:59 PM »

I'm with Tipsy on this one. If a helmet needs replacing after a 900mm drop, then I probably wouldn't want to trust it at 100 kph in the event of an emergency. It's like the whole 5 year expiry date issue. Good marketing. Stay strong Pete.

Pocket STocker · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2015, 09:10:29 PM »

I dropped my helmet in the backyard a couple of years ago, and my head was in it at the time

Do you remember that Abe

I remember Chris said to me that he was told that if the Helmet fell from your head height onto a concrete or road that is the time when you should atleast consider to purchase a new one.

Pockey

Lionel · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2015, 11:19:29 PM »

I dropped mine on the Pacific Highway with my head in it. Both bounced twice on the bitumen.
This probably explains some of my posts.
It's very difficult to see where the helmet came in contact with the road.
It's a Shoei flip face and I bought a replacement for $900.
The replacement is still in the box as I continue to wear the other one.

saaz · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2015, 09:46:50 AM »

My main trouble these days is having to get a new visor every so often, at $80 a pop. Just normal wear and scratches. A new helmet at least comes with a free visor!

StinkyPete · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2015, 11:49:24 AM »

I must be bored! I've just conducted an experiment with an old and spare Shoei full face helmet that was well past it's use-by and ready to be chucked out.

I dropped the unoccupied helmet from a height of 3.5 meters, onto hard concrete and it landed perfectly on the top of the crown. This was a severe drop for an unoccupied helmet, and one that I am sure would prompt most owners to replace it.

There was a scar on the outside of the shell corresponding to the impact. I then popped out the polystyrene liner and inspected the inside of the shell and the surface of the polystyrene liner adjacent to the shell impact area.

There was no visible internal indentation or damage to the shell, and I could see no damage or deformation to the polystyrene liner. I've taken some photos of the Shell Outside, Shell inside marked with pencil showing the area of impact, and the polystyrene liner adjacent to the external impact area.

Based upon my observation of the minimal external and no visible internal damage, I believe that after the drop the helmet would still offer an excellent level of protection in the event of a crash. However, after a drop from that height I would certainly replace a helmet, and the test helmet has now gone to it's next role as landfill.

This test has reassured me that a short drop onto a hard surface is unlikely to render a helmet unsafe and unusable, but everyone must make their own decisions, based upon their own research and enquiries.

Pocket STocker · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2015, 02:30:25 PM »

Yes Pete your board, I need some Ironing done and some work pants hemmed up.

Oh and the dog needs a bath and could you defrost the freezer, help yourself to Chris's beer fridge while your busy at it

Pockey

StinkyPete · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2015, 03:07:48 PM »

Quote from: Pocket STocker on April 13, 2015, 02:30:25 PM

Yes Pete your board....
Pockey

"...you're bored " would be the correct spellng

saaz · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2015, 03:47:17 PM »

What is this ironing thing you mention??

If you hang things up long enough they unwrinkle

Quote from: Pocket STocker on April 13, 2015, 02:30:25 PM

Yes Pete your board, I need some Ironing done and some work pants hemmed up.

Oh and the dog needs a bath and could you defrost the freezer, help yourself to Chris's beer fridge while your busy at it

Pockey

Marcus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2015, 03:55:12 PM »

Quote from: StinkyPete on April 13, 2015, 03:07:48 PM

"...you're bored " would be the correct spellng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_EKRNLX5tc

saaz · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2015, 04:03:35 PM »

Now you have made me waste time watching all the ones I have not seen

Biggles · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2015, 05:46:54 PM »

I think it's the ironing board to which is being alluded.

STroppy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2015, 07:24:05 PM »

Whatever . . . But Pete IS definately BORED! . . . But thanks Pete I will keep using my helmet even after it's small drop . .

Marcus · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:08:35 PM »

Quote from: saaz on April 13, 2015, 04:03:35 PM

Now you have made me waste time watching all the ones I have not seen

Yeah there are some really funny ones out there

Flip · « **Reply #22 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:48:35 PM »

Quote from: Marcus on April 13, 2015, 08:08:35 PM

Quote from: saaz on April 13, 2015, 04:03:35 PM
Now you have made me waste time watching all the ones I have not seen

Yeah there are some really funny ones out there


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Ju_pD94PA&annotation_id=5218a503-0-2cf5-956a-47d7b3a8fdc&feature=iv&src_vid=NOZKLtIIUZE

Flip

Brock · « **Reply #23 on:** April 14, 2015, 09:28:49 PM »

After all this talk of helmets, I went and got a new Shark Evo3 from Helmet House. Its amazing the difference in fit that you dont notice happening. The inner padding is a lot firmer. Senna SMH10 has been swapped over easily.

News:

Author Topic: Dropped Helmet Discussion (Read 5485 times)