Knife-edge Election Results

[StinkyPete]

It's never a good idea to post something political, but I'll see how long this post lasts.

    If government cannot be achieved just because a few independents are properly elected by the people, perhaps it's time we changed how governments are formed, or ban independents from standing and have only Labor or Liberal candidates.   

[Cerebral Knievel]

It has been stated that this election the percentage of the vote received by independents is up to 20%.
This is clearly not good with regards to the ease of running a day to day government regardless of party but it is an indication of how badly disaffected the population has become with the 2 major parties.
It is a great demonstration of democracy in action that should send a message to the big 2 that they need to change the way they go about their core business of looking after the very people they seek to represent.
Barrie Cassidy is calling a 72 -72 result which will probably result in another election after a probable attempt to govern by either party unsuccessfully after a period of time with independents. 

[alans1100]

Looking here http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDefault-20499.htm it seems Labor is a few seats (69) in front of the Coalition (64) but with five close seats left to be called doesn't give either major party a clear run. Based on current count in the five seats it would give Labor 71 and the Coalition 67. Then we have another 6 seats which could go either way. Likely 1 for Labor and 5 for the Coalition which would give Labor 2 more seats over the Coalition.

Interesting times ahead it seems.......

------------

Think my simple arithmetic was a little off; I think 72 each would be more like it.

[Gadget]

Back at the time of federation there were no political parties. It worked well then.

Councils, comittees and boards of directors manage to work together.
Parties represent party interests, not the electorate's (voter's) interest.

As much as it might annoy them, the LNP and Labor could actually form a coalition Government with ministers from either side, but I won't hold my breath.

[alans1100]

Back at the time of federation there were no political parties. It worked well then.

I don't think politicians got paid before federation back then either.

[winston66]

As far as my opinion of Politicians are concerned ,
I do not think all that much of them.
Why?
you ask,

Well the answer is.

A much wiser and worldly wise person than myself once asked a question,

QUESTION.
How do you know when a politician is telling a lie?

ANSWER.
Have a look to see if their lips are moving.

That is my two cents worth to this particular subject.

Cheers to all.
Winston66

[pault]

my dad was very active in one of the major parties for years . he is 86 now, still sharp and keeps up to date. he is disgusted with both sides having tried to bring some common sense and honesty into the "game". And see it all get to where it is now.

[richo]

As stated in a good film from the sixties. "What we have here is a failure to communicate". The politicians have spent too much time listening to their party advisors and not enough time listening to their voters.  surely there must be middle ground that they can both live with, but they're so engaged in knocking the other off they have lost sight of what they are there for and neither can give the other credit for a good idea  Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely.  We are in for an interesting time.

[Sabie]

This is just an observation and not a push for one political party..

On election night I was surfing the websites offering election results. The ABC had one of the better sites and while perusing the figures I noticed something strange.

We vote for who we want to see elected, they win their seat, the party with the most seats wins (in simple terms)

But the ABC's website also had a tab where you could go to the raw numbers of how people voted without placing them into electorates. It showed that more than a million people had voted for Labour than the LNP, however by electorate at the time the LNP were in front.

So that doesn't seem right to me, more people may vote for a political party than the other, however the lesser may win if they win more electorates ...... Go figure....

[Shiney]

Good point Sabie

[Sabie]

Thanks Shiney

I think our voting system needs a good look at ... the one vote one person doesn't exist. We need to look at majority voting, but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....

[Bikebear]

There has been a lot of talk about the number of independents that will be in the Senate, with people saying it won't be good for the country. However I see it differently, the Senate is a house of review and I believe we need to have people there who will actually scrutinise the bills the government is trying to push through, not just agree and rubber stamp any dodgy legislation the government of the day dreams up. I know this may lead to legislation being held up but at least someone other than govermment stooges will get a say in what gets through.

[Sabie]

Well Said BB ..

[alans1100]

Thanks Shiney

 but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....

That's why we have the system we have. The candidate with the most votes or first past the post sounds good in theory but not when most didn't vote for that person.

http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential

3.the counting of first preference votes, also known as the primary vote, takes place first. If no candidate secures an absolute majority – 50% plus 1 – of primary votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is “eliminated” from the count.
4.the ballot papers of the eliminated candidate are examined and re-allocated amongst the remaining candidates according to the number “2”, or second preference votes.
5.if no candidate has yet secured an absolute majority of the vote, then the next candidate with the least number of primary votes is eliminated. This preference allocation continues until there is a candidate with an absolute majority. Where a second preference is expressed for a candidate who has already been eliminated, the voter’s third or subsequent preferences are used.

[Flip]

    TRIED explaining how politics and elections work in Oz to my wife - she still doesn't understand it any better. 

Come to that - neither do I now !!! 

Last elections we had just a couple of months ago, was something like a 98% voter turn out.

The former Prime Minister's time was up, having served 10 years in office.  He simply retired very gracefully.

I found that difficult to believe - but it must be true.  It was on TV and in the press, on-line news and printed.

What's more there was no protest groups or weird protesters ! 

Strange isn't it ?    It's voluntary voting as well.     

Wife's Address ???    Phu My Hung.  District 7.   Sai Gon.       Land of motorbikes - MILLIONS of them everywhere !

[Gadget]

Sabie, that's where multi-party electorates and proportional representation come into their own.

BikeBear, you're not on your own. We need the review and wish Qld still had a legislative assembly.

sent using Tapatalk

[Sabie]

Thanks Alan  that's a good find.....

Thanks Shiney

 but then you could argue more people didn't want that party than did.... its a vicious world....

That's why we have the system we have. The candidate with the most votes or first past the post sounds good in theory but not when most didn't vote for that person.

http://australianpolitics.com/voting/preferential

3.the counting of first preference votes, also known as the primary vote, takes place first. If no candidate secures an absolute majority – 50% plus 1 – of primary votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is “eliminated” from the count.
4.the ballot papers of the eliminated candidate are examined and re-allocated amongst the remaining candidates according to the number “2”, or second preference votes.
5.if no candidate has yet secured an absolute majority of the vote, then the next candidate with the least number of primary votes is eliminated. This preference allocation continues until there is a candidate with an absolute majority. Where a second preference is expressed for a candidate who has already been eliminated, the voter’s third or subsequent preferences are used.

[Gadget]

I once heard preferential voting described as being: "The system which ensures the person the most people find the least objectionable is elected.

[Dick B "Yewie"]

There has been a lot of talk about the number of independents that will be in the Senate, with people saying it won't be good for the country. However I see it differently, the Senate is a house of review and I believe we need to have people there who will actually scrutinise the bills the government is trying to push through, not just agree and rubber stamp any dodgy legislation the government of the day dreams up. I know this may lead to legislation being held up but at least someone other than govermment stooges will get a say in what gets through.

The main problem I have with the current system in the Senate is that most of the Minor Parties who gain representation in the Senate (and often hold the balance of power over the elected government) generally are only there on the basis of a single issue (ie Gays or Shooters or umpteen others eg Pauleen Hanson of Clive Palmer). They usually only get a very small number of primary votes. They still end up holding the elected government to ransom to push their specific issues even though only a very few people voted for them in the first place. I can't help feeling, who do they think they are?

Here endeth the Lesson 
 

 

 

[Sabie]

Well put Dick and I'd have to agree. The only problem is what do we change it to?? But yes some of the parties or groups were absolutely ridiculous and what a waste of money/paper/effort..

[Kev Murphy]

Here we are, two weeks later, and they STILL haven't finished counting...

Ok, so they have to count around 16 million votes, but it is not done by one person?...    or is it? 

More than 6% of votes in the 2012 elections were informal, and the number is rising.

 Does that mean we will soon have an 'Informal' party in Government?

[West Aussie Glen]

So that doesn't seem right to me, more people may vote for a political party than the other, however the lesser may win if they win more electorates ...... Go figure....

Looking at the AEC figures today with almost 90% of the votes counted the coalition had approx 5.1  million first preference votes, the labor party 4.6 million and the greens 1.3 million

The really disappointing figure as Kev pointed out is the informal votes. In close seats where the difference looks like being less than 100 votes in at least one seat, of the roughly 90,000 votes there are over 5,000 informal votes.
Either:-
1. voters have deliberately cast an informal vote, I hope not
2. preferential voting should be otptional
3. or we need to send Alan out to explain to people how preferential voting works

[StinkyPete]

I believe that voters are sick of the two major parties, their "ownership" of the political system, and how they band together to discredit political threats from minor parties.  This could have been a contributor to a deliberate high informal vote.

However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.

[Williamson]

.... voters have deliberately cast an informal vote, I hope not ....

Sadly, if going by some earlier comments in this thread, this not the case.

I believe that voters are sick of the two major parties, their "ownership" of the political system, and how they band together to discredit political threats from minor parties.  This could have been a contributor to a deliberate high informal vote......

This is how the Democrats and The Greens started, and whilst one did offer a fresh face, steadying influence, watch dog role "keep the bastards honest", and the other does offer an alternative and a more sustained role, can anyone (with any sense) really want them running our Country. 

.... However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.

Hear!  Hear!

[Streak]

However, I believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to be critical of government.

Could not agree more!