Author Topic: Dragging Front right Brakes  (Read 359 times)

Offline PeteBycroft

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Dragging Front right Brakes
« on: February 10, 2019, 09:03:17 PM »
Hi all,  just new to the group and have read as many posts as i can regarding if my issue has already been solved.
Alas i haven't found a particular reason for my dilemma.
OK purchased my 02 ST 1300 4 weeks ago. Few problems such as burnt wiring due to dipsticks adding workarounds to problems. No other issues at all.....
Rode the bike 600 k's home, no faults other than heating my privates well above normal operating temperature. Had electrics seen to and fixed perfectly.
Started the next stage , change all fluids.
Brakes first , I have scoured the net for the correct steps and found all the correct ones. Purchased 2 bottles of Nulon Super Dot 4 and did the afternoon cracking/bleeding/over and over again and i stress in the correct order.
Took her out, gave her some breathing space and hung on. After 10 ks' felt like the bike just lost all power but after i pulled over found the right brake disc was blue and locking the front brake caliper (right side only) Lucky i had some tools onboard and cracked the right front top bleed nipple , let off the pressure and let it cool down and headed home. After 5 k's same thing happened. Right front disc overheats and locks the brakes.   After cracking the bleed nipple once more wheel was once again completely free.   Went home and have bled the brakes again only to have the same problem appear consistently. Have cleaned the caliper and checked the operation of all three pistons but still same problem.
I am hoping that anyone can help with something i haven't tried as i have tried just about everything but call the pope to eradicate the issue. 

Heres hoping. Thanks in advance .

Cheers Pete
 

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 02:40:10 AM »
Wondering if the wrong pads have been put in.

Rear pads are the same shape but thicker but in saying that two rear pads shouldn't fit in the front but you might get one front and one rear to fit.

Other than that, there's a delay valve on the RH fork above the calliper. The valve is there to make sure full braking is applied to the rear before the front but I doubt if that is the offender here.

Another possibility is lack of grease on a hidden slider pin which can only be lubricated by removing the calliper from the mount.

You have two bleeders on each front calliper; one from the front master and the other from the rear master. Taking note of which bleeder reduces the pressure could help in elimination the system at fault.

Brake system layout - minus the ABS modulators



Items 11 and 12 are the pins that could have their grease dry out and might cause the calliper to stick with items 13 and 14 being there to keep the grease drying out to quick.

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Online Brock

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 09:21:55 AM »
There may be an air bubble in the right brake, or a sticking piston. Open the right bleed valve and depress the lever slightly to displace any air, repeat for foot pedal.

As the air heats, it will press the pad onto the disk
Brock
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Offline PeteBycroft

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 10:07:08 PM »
Thank you both Brock and allans1100
Thanks for the Diag and the pins 11 and 12 havent been done yet and i will break down the slave over the weekend and check these out.
When i purchased it i bought it with no RWC or rego from a dealer in Moree NSw
When talking with him he told me the owner of this bike had an accident falling off a truck and just wanted to get rid of the bike because he couldnt ride it anymore.
Over the past few days i have investigated where the bike did come from.
Last service was at 65,000 in 2013 now has 72,000 since then (5YRS must have sat for awhile).
I have a feeling that the bike became too difficult for the previous owner to work problems out and just wanted to get rid of it.
Dealer gave me a safety certificate (Not RWC) to get a permit to ride back to brissy.
The bike had no issues when i test rode it in Moree bout 20 k's
Rode it 550k's straight away from the test ride back to Brissy , no problems (except for No horn, no low beams, stop light didnt work on right hand brake and intermitent on right foot brake)
Absolutely no issues with brakes dragging on the way home at all.
Decided to change brake fluid with mechanic who didnt know the sequencing so may have been an issue in the beginning, but since then i have re bled them in the correct sequence with tilting the left brake caliper up to drain air at the right time.
By the way, when the front wheel is draggin its nearly impossible to turn it but when i crack the bleeder its the right front top that when is released free's the front wheel instantly and allows it to spin easy.
Also checked and cleaned all three pistons for in and out function , so your thoughts on 11 and 12 maybe right up the alley.

I will check this on the weekend and report back.
Thanks again
 

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 11:58:32 PM »
Looking in the manual the RH front bleeder is on the front brake system so that eliminates anything in connection with foot pedal.

So you have the front master and the hoses/pipes to the front callipers which in turn operate the two outer pistons.

The reason I suggested the pins is that e.g. if one has the grease dry out and the other one is ok then under braking the one end of the calliper would move as normal while the other end could eventually stick. If the calliper doesn't move then that end piston will keep braking.

If lack of lubrication on the pins is the issue then it may pay to do the LH and rear as well which I have to do on my 1100 as well.
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Offline johnnyYTED

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 01:11:48 AM »
 :blk13 :dred11
Last service was at 65,000 in 2013 now has 72,000 since then (5YRS must have sat for awhile). may have had mice in the barn on the farm that feasted on wiring whilst sitting for 5YRS, a long time to contemplate over the difficulty in fixing.
I have a feeling that the bike became too difficult for the previous owner to work problems out and just wanted to get rid of it.
The previous owner could have been a member and told the truth about falling off a truck, I still own my old 1100 and keep it registered insured along with my 2008 ST1300 , both of which if I had issues with I lQQk or ask here for advice and always get the info I needed. and members more than willing to help.
so Pete in your first ever post calling people "dipsticks" isn't really the way to start in this forum looking for answers to as you say a bike that has sat for 5yrs.. I know of many bikes that sit un ridden un washed uncared for because ppl have separation issue with getting rid of a usually problem free bike.
I hope you get the brakes working properly and can start enjoying your purchase, as for the heating your privates, its a well know fact they get hot, my 2008 doesn't get my bits overly hot whereas my 1998 1100 does get my legs hot. I know from the high k's I ride. The lambs wool on my ST's  helps put a little insulation to protect my jewels.. There is a pic that cant be unseen of my damaged bits I'd share but others who maybe will read this thread don't want that image re planted in their head, so if you come up with a solve to the  common heat problem do share it here. Its excellent on cold winter nights to add some warmth but not really suited to Qld's or NT's higher average temps.
just my 2 cents worth with GST added.   is your bike yellow maybe you got the 1 or so lemons out of whatever huge number made.
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maybe something with a little extra
:dred11 :blk13
 

Offline PeteBycroft

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 08:40:56 AM »
Thanks johnny YTED
 

Offline StinkyPete

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2019, 08:53:29 AM »
Pete, I can't offer any advice about your brake problem, but fitting a sheepskin seat cover helps with heat issue as it improves the seal beteeen the seat and the tank, keeping the hot air away from your bits.
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Offline PeteBycroft

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 09:38:22 AM »
Thank you Stinkypete
My wife thanks you
I thank you
and my jewels THANK YOU.

ordered 1 on ebay 2 minutes ago.

Thanks again
 

Offline West Aussie Glen

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 09:48:41 AM »
Pete if you can get the brake to lock again try releasing pressure at the hand brake master cylinder if that works you will need to service the master cylinder. If the pressure doesn't release from there work your way down the hoses to find where it does release. I have heard of brake hoses giving that sort of problem. Be sure to put a rag over where ever you try to release the pressure to catch any brake fluid.
Glen
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Offline West Aussie Glen

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 09:54:54 AM »
Pete if you can get the brake to lock again try releasing pressure at the hand brake master cylinder if that works you will need to service the master cylinder. If the pressure doesn't release from there work your way down the hoses to find where it does release. I have heard of brake hoses giving that sort of problem. Be sure to put a rag over where ever you try to release the pressure to catch any brake fluid.

Just remembered you said right side only so it won't be the master cylinder. Try the top of the hose going to the caliper. If that doesn't release the pressure you need a new hose.
Glen
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Offline West Aussie Glen

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 10:06:21 AM »
Think that will be hose number 11.
Glen
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Offline PeteBycroft

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 01:29:43 PM »
Hi all who have viewed this post and added some wisdom
I thank you Brock , allans100 , johhnyYTED , StinkyPete and West Aussie Glen
for your efforts in helping me find out the cause of my braking issues.
Been a long few weeks with more head scratches than a kid after the first day at school.
I think i have found the issues and have applied everyones directions faultlessly.
Thank you all for each and every idea.
I have found something i think was the biggest problem that was confounding all other fixes appplied. Seems the "dipsticks" (no reference to any riders of ST1300/1100's or members of ozstoc) maybe the ones i am referring to are the ones i mentioned in my first post.
I'll explain
Why would someone when changing brake pads purchase odd pairs then fit them with backing plates only on one caliper. (The right front ) I had been focusing my attention only on the right front caliper cause that was the one heating up. After checking the pads from the left front one,  the left ones where 2 mm thinner than the right front (I know what your thinking..... may have worn down from only 500k's travel done on them)
Its was the right front sticking and dragging so they should have been thinner and when i was checking them found they where not identical ie left had a groove for mud and crap in the middle and the right had 3 distinct grooves.
Right pads had a backing plate fitted Left had none.

Last Solution
Replace pads all round with the correct standard issue
Rebleed brakes (just cause i have now done it 10 times and have memorised each step.)
Ride 200 k's and flog the brakes harder than i did when first getting the bike.

Problem Solvered.....

Thanks again everyone and i have written a stern but useless email to the dealer i dealt with and gave him my 10 cents worth only because this was the last thing in a long list of crap i had to deal with with this bike and they gave me a certificate of safety (not a RWC)  alleging this was fine to ride home 500 k's away.

Anyway Rant Over thanks for listening i hope i can help any body in the future with someone else's problems.

Cheers Pete
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 01:38:10 PM by PeteBycroft »
 
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Offline StinkyPete

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 02:42:52 PM »
It's always good when someone posts a solution to a problem, as it's now available to help others.  ++
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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 02:52:47 PM »
 Oh dear, what idiot would install non matching pad sets  :|||| :||||

They both may have been for the 1300, but different brands, you dont mix n match, thats basic engineering.

Next time order pads from metal gear and do them your self, it takes 10 min per caliper.. Unless something goes wrong.
Brock
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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 03:00:34 PM »
Oh dear, what idiot would install non matching pad sets  :|||| :||||

You got in before me!!!

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Offline West Aussie Glen

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Re: Dragging Front right Brakes
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 03:43:58 PM »
Really glad your problem is fixed. But surprised at the solution.
Were they just different brands on each side or not actually the correct ones for the ST?
Now to stir the pot. I would never put different brands on the wheels on opposite sides of a car front or back but different brands on each side of the same wheel wouldn't worry me, so you get a slightly different braking effort on each side but the same wheel.
On the front wheel of a GL1500 the left hand side caliper is operated by the foot brake and the right hand caliper by the hand brake so you always have a different brake force on each side of the wheel.   
So yes I wouldn't normally do it but I would be that idiot in some circumstances with out any concern.
Sorry Brock but it is actually basic engineering.
Glen
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1948 James 98cc 2 Speed, 1969 Suzuki A100-2
1970 Suzuki T250 Hustler, Honda CL100 (125cc)
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88 GL1500 Outfit
08 ST1300
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