Author Topic: Ageism?  (Read 6094 times)

Offline mikep

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Ageism?
« on: November 16, 2020, 07:19:18 PM »
Well,  i just  turned 70 and the gov of SA has sent me a letter demanding i get an annual medical / doctors report because i have a motorcycle license.  Is this just our nanny state here in SA or is it everywhere?
If i give up my motorcycle license and only keep my car license no annual medical is needed. How stupid is this? I can drive and tow a combined vehicle mass of something like 7 tonnes, but if i ride a motorcycle,  say even a 50cc bike weighing what,  maybe 60kg, i have to do this annual nonsense.  And if they're trying to "keep me safe", I'm probably safer than a great many young riders who are still young enough to think they're indestructible.  I'm truly pissed off at this bit of government bureaucratic stupidity.  I can only think that when SA removed the requirement for car drivers reaching 70 to have an annual medical some twit overlooked motorcycles. Grrrr! :angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon
It's not that I'm concerned about the result,  I'm in excellent condition,  just angry about the ageism and stupidity. We older riders need someone to put our case and get this crap ended.
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Online Williamson

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2020, 08:01:23 PM »
Well,  i just  turned 70 and the gov of SA has sent me a letter demanding i get an annual medical / doctors report because i have a motorcycle license.  Is this just our nanny state here in SA or is it everywhere?
If i give up my motorcycle license and only keep my car license no annual medical is needed. How stupid is this? I can drive and tow a combined vehicle mass of something like 7 tonnes, but if i ride a motorcycle,  say even a 50cc bike weighing what,  maybe 60kg, i have to do this annual nonsense.  And if they're trying to "keep me safe", I'm probably safer than a great many young riders who are still young enough to think they're indestructible.  I'm truly pissed off at this bit of government bureaucratic stupidity.  I can only think that when SA removed the requirement for car drivers reaching 70 to have an annual medical some twit overlooked motorcycles. Grrrr! :angry-old-man-smiley-emoticon
It's not that I'm concerned about the result,  I'm in excellent condition,  just angry about the ageism and stupidity. We older riders need someone to put our case and get this crap ended.

Happy Birthday Mike.

That letter does sound discriminating, but being from VIC I have no idea whether or not this is standard practise, some SA regulars here will advise either way.  I presume other 70 year old, or older, SA motorcyclists have questionned this matter, and will be able to provide a more helpful response.  Aye Langers, did you get such a letter?

It would be interesting to know what specific bit of legislation requires a motorcyclist to get a medical report.  Perhaps someone can post some details.

Re. other States, I can only speak for VIC, we don't have any such requirement here.
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Offline richo

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2020, 08:03:07 PM »
 :clap. Well said
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Offline Biggles

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2020, 08:12:28 PM »
No such nonsense in Her Majesty's Queensland!
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Offline ruSTynutz

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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2020, 11:35:40 PM »
[

Happy Birthday Mike.

That letter does sound discriminating, but being from VIC I have no idea whether or not this is standard practise, some SA regulars here will advise either way.  I presume other 70 year old, or older, SA motorcyclists have questionned this matter, and will be able to provide a more helpful response.  Aye Langers, did you get such a letter?

It would be interesting to know what specific bit of legislation requires a motorcyclist to get a medical report.  Perhaps someone can post some details.

Re. other States, I can only speak for VIC, we don't have any such requirement here.
[/quote]
Thanks for the birthday wishes Michael,  and no thanks to our crap SA government for this ludicrous birthday present.
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2020, 11:39:25 PM »
Here you go...  :thumb

https://www.mylicence.sa.gov.au/safe-driving-tips?a=140052
And
https://austroads.com.au/publications/assessing-fitness-to-drive/ap-g56/regulatory-requirements-for-drivfr2sevcr
Thanks for the additional info Nutz. I see that only the NT, Qld, and Vic really have it right,  but SA is the worst of the lot. Bloody Nanny  state!
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2020, 11:43:09 PM »
I did notice that the letter i got does not say just when i have to have this doctor report,  can't see any deadline for it.  Wonder what would happen if i dragged my heels one it? Probably get another letter saying my license was suspended...
Still fuming....
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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2020, 01:10:59 AM »
With have something similar with our driver's accreditation for driving buses.  Usually we have to do a medical every three years, but after a certain age it becomes annual.  I am not sure what that age is.  Some of my coworkers with medical issues also have to do it annually.
 

Offline ruSTynutz

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2020, 08:52:29 AM »
What I find disgusting is how a doctor can just say you shouldn't be driving because you're "old" and you then have to jump through hoops to then keep your licence.

We came across this "age discrimination" through my wife's driving school.
This poor woman had had a fall at home and had injured her leg. The treating doctor, when he found out that she still had her licence, took it upon himself to contact Vicroads to have it cancelled.
Now, there was no medical reason she couldn't drive, it was just that at her age the doctor didn't think it was a good idea.
This was devastating for the poor woman as she lived 7k's out of town...

To cut a long story short, we were able to help her retain her licence as she, while "frail", was sharp as a tack considering her age and could still drive quite safely.

It was an expensive process though...and all because the doctor didn't think she should be driving at her age... :||||

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Offline Biggles

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2020, 09:33:06 AM »
It was an expensive process though...and all because the doctor didn't think she should be driving at her age... :||||

And that conclusion of his arrived at no doubt by looking at her sitting in his surgery.  Some doctors have a "god complex".
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Offline ruSTynutz

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2020, 10:24:28 AM »
And, to put it bluntly, I believe the doctor was of a certain nationality that tend to have a low opinion of women...

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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2020, 10:54:01 AM »
What I find disgusting is how a doctor can just say you shouldn't be driving because you're "old" and you then have to jump through hoops to then keep your licence.

We came across this "age discrimination" through my wife's driving school.
This poor woman had had a fall at home and had injured her leg. The treating doctor, when he found out that she still had her licence, took it upon himself to contact Vicroads to have it cancelled.
Now, there was no medical reason she couldn't drive, it was just that at her age the doctor didn't think it was a good idea.
This was devastating for the poor woman as she lived 7k's out of town...

To cut a long story short, we were able to help her retain her licence as she, while "frail", was sharp as a tack considering her age and could still drive quite safely.

It was an expensive process though...and all because the doctor didn't think she should be driving at her age... :||||

Good on you for helping her out.  It is disgusting that assumptions should be made based only on age.  As for doctors with a god complex, well some of them certainly have that and not all of those are in the older age group.  I hope that doctors reputation has been tossed around town.
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2020, 10:59:07 AM »
With have something similar with our driver's accreditation for driving buses.  Usually we have to do a medical every three years, but after a certain age it becomes annual.  I am not sure what that age is.  Some of my coworkers with medical issues also have to do it annually.
I can understand it with heavy goods type vehicles and buses,  they're protecting other road users and passengers.  But,  if i tangle with another vehicle on the road I'm pretty sure I'll come of worst and the other vehicle drivers will be unscathed.  The real stupidity is that i can drive vehicles up to about 5 or is it 7 tonnes without having to get an annual doctors report,  but if i jump on my honda 50cc bike i need one? By the way,  i don't have a honda 50cc bike although i had one during my student days!  :beer
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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2020, 11:41:49 AM »
50cc you can drive on a car licence anyway.
 

Offline Langers

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2020, 02:02:47 PM »
[]

Happy Birthday Mike.

That letter does sound discriminating, but being from VIC I have no idea whether or not this is standard practise, some SA regulars here will advise either way.  I presume other 70 year old, or older, SA motorcyclists have questionned this matter, and will be able to provide a more helpful response.  Aye Langers, did you get such a letter?

It would be interesting to know what specific bit of legislation requires a motorcyclist to get a medical report.  Perhaps someone can post some details.

Re. other States, I can only speak for VIC, we don't have any such requirement here.
[/quote]

Well, thank you Michael - I have obviously lived a very hard life!!  I'll have you know, I'm yet to reach 65 AND the pension is a long way off.

Back to the subject at hand - yes the Nanny State is alive and well in SA. A riding mate has turned 70 this year and received the same letter as Mike and was equally unimpressed. This mate is fit, healthy and is called upon to audit and report on National veterinary training programs - he most definitely has all his mental faculties still with him (although he did replace his Moto Guzzi Norge with a BMW so there is some lingering doubt). At the same time we read about men half his age, unable to hold down a job due to alcohol and drug abuse, hoon about the streets and have their licenses intact. And don't start me on female asian drivers in BMWs.

I did watch my father's descent into dementia with dismay and absolute frustration at not being able to get his license revoked because he was a danger to all on the road. He refused to acknowledge there was a problem despite the fact his reaction time was almost non-existent.

It is my view that there needs to be a time (age) when testing for fitness to drive is mandatory, but not just for motorcyclists - all road users, including cyclists (aged road lice are even worse than the young ones in my experience in terms of "it's my right to ride this road at peak hour and hold every poor sod up who's trying to get home"). The test should be, at the very least, a reaction time test because if little Sally runs onto the road, we all hope she doesn't die because some old coote is too stubborn to recognise he or she is too old to be driving.  The good news for us motorcyclists, if the reaction time test I did for a sleep and fatigue study is any indication - we have very good reaction times because we are always on the look out for the unexpected. I wouldn't have a problem with biennial testing beginning at 70 and going to annual at 80 (easy to say eh? I've still got a few years to go - I might change my tune closer to the age.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2020, 04:04:50 PM »
By the way Mike, since we have your attention, have you seen this bike in your neck of the woods?  He said he lived in Port Augusta.

Yellow 1100 with sidecar in Quorn at 1030ish this morning.  His wife was on a Goldwing made into a trike.  In hindsight I should have got a photo of that too.  I spoke to them for a bit.  They hadn't heard of Ozstoc so gave them a card and told them about the forum.  Sadly I forgot to mention the RTE in Point Victoria next month.  Ride report will come later.


 

Offline ruSTynutz

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2020, 05:04:33 PM »
No such nonsense in Her Majesty's Queensland!

They have other completely different nonsense... :whistle  :grin

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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2020, 06:01:25 PM »
50cc you can drive on a car licence anyway.
You are correct,  i was exaggerating.  It's actually 51cc where you must have a motorcycle license! ;-*
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2020, 06:23:22 PM »
No such nonsense in Her Majesty's Queensland!

They have other completely different nonsense... :whistle  :grin
Too true,  a mate got an on the spot fine from a cop in Queensland because his caravan number plate was too high.  He told the cop it's legal In  SA, and the cop told him to go back there then! He could possibly have fought it but who's got the time and energy when all you want is a holiday.  The really funny thing though is that the van was built in Queensland
 :law
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2020, 06:30:34 PM »
Hi Bodo, that's a very pretty and very distinctive bike and sidecar combo.  I haven't seen it around but I'll keep a look out and if i get the chance introduce the club to him/ her. 
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Offline mikep

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2020, 06:35:17 PM »
[]

Happy Birthday Mike.


It is my view that there needs to be a time (age) when testing for fitness to drive is mandatory, but not just for motorcyclists - all road users, including cyclists (aged road lice are even worse than the young ones in my experience in terms of "it's my right to ride this road at peak hour and hold every poor sod up who's trying to get home"). The test should be, at the very least, a reaction time test because if little Sally runs onto the road, we all hope she doesn't die because some old coote is too stubborn to recognise he or she is too old to be driving.  The good news for us motorcyclists, if the reaction time test I did for a sleep and fatigue study is any indication - we have very good reaction times because we are always on the look out for the unexpected. I wouldn't have a problem with biennial testing beginning at 70 and going to annual at 80 (easy to say eh? I've still got a few years to go - I might change my tune closer to the age.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I agree really,  and wouldn't be much bothered by a two yearly doc exam,  but I'm really pissed off because it only applies to bikers.  I just can't understand why...
I reckon bikers at least are generally more alert on the road because as we all know,  they're all out to get us..
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Offline ruSTynutz

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2020, 08:10:29 PM »
No such nonsense in Her Majesty's Queensland!

They have other completely different nonsense... :whistle  :grin
Too true,  a mate got an on the spot fine from a cop in Queensland because his caravan number plate was too high.  He told the cop it's legal In  SA, and the cop told him to go back there then! He could possibly have fought it but who's got the time and energy when all you want is a holiday.  The really funny thing though is that the van was built in Queensland
 :law

I think the maximum height for a caravan number plate is 1.3 metres (in Queensland). Not sure about South Oz, a quick search didn't bring up a maximum height.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure the cop was in the wrong assuming the caravan number plate height was in compliance for the State it was registered in.
*Edit: Australian Design Rules state and I quote:">to be affixed to the rear of the vehicle so that no part of such plate is more than 1,300 mm from the ground"
So I'm assuming that height is Australia wide... :think1

Getting back to Queensland nonsense, I was thinking more along the lines of having to have a car licence before you can obtain a motorcycle licence... :whistle  :||||
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 08:36:55 PM by ruSTynutz »

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Offline Biggles

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2020, 01:07:04 PM »
Getting back to Queensland nonsense, I was thinking more along the lines of having to have a car licence before you can obtain a motorcycle licence... :whistle  :||||

All motorcyclists would agree with that, and go one further saying everyone should get a m/c licence before they are allowed to drive a car.  But that's never going to happen for at least two reasons- not everyone has the dexterity to operate a m/c (but they can all sit in a car seat and operate the controls like a video game); and the majority of the population think it's too dangerous outside the metal cage.
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Offline ruSTynutz

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Re: Ageism?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2020, 02:55:05 PM »
I just think having to have a car licence first is a ridiculous requirement!  :||||

While I'm sure we'd end up with better car drivers if they first had to have a motorcycle licence, realistically, as you said, it's never gonna happen.

I'm honestly not too sure what the logic is with having a car licence first...unless of course they are thinking that once they have a car licence many would probably not bother going on to then get a motorcycle licence...
Come to think of it, it's amazing Vicroads haven't jumped on the idea seeing as they don't want to encourage anyone to take up motorcycling...  :whistle

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