Author Topic: Help solve this problem......  (Read 9674 times)

Offline laurie

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Help solve this problem......
« on: September 29, 2012, 07:58:50 AM »
The bike starts and runs fine,for a while......After 50/60ks of riding it all turns to crap. Zooming along quite nicely and then no power followed by a complete stop. Allow the bike to sit for 10 minutes,crank it over and still nothing. Wait another 10 minutes,give it 3/4 choke and eventually it starts. Engine will run and get me home on 3/4 choke,high engine revs and small throttle opening. Its been doing this for a while now, and I am about to head to the shed to try and figure it all out......Your thoughts?? I assume its a fuel starvation problem...
Laurie
 

Offline bluehonda

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 08:17:01 AM »
Might it be the vacuum operated fuel tap, small leak in the diaphragm
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Offline Tipsy

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 08:30:27 AM »
 :wht11 py

Sounds like its sucking extra air from somewhere it should not.
Check all vacuum lines, one or more may have perished or cracked.

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Online Brock

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 09:54:17 AM »
Will the bike start again if you crack the fuel cap????
Brock
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Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 10:21:11 AM »
Hi Brock
I havent tried opening the fuel cap, I guess you are thinking a blocked breather hose?
As it happens, ive just come in from the shed. Discovered that the fuel tank breather hose was crimped....After fixing that, the bike still dosnt sound right. If i hold it at a steady 2000rpm it sounds rough.
I think I might end up taking it to the bike shop, after a lifetime of fixing things myself,I dont have a lot of patience left....
Laurie
 

Offline Greencan

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2012, 11:32:14 AM »
Mornin’ Laurie et al...

Possible I suppose it could be a vacuum leak bearing in mind your bike has about a metre more vacuum line than most given the MC cruise setup, so worth a look. Mind you I found that when mine had perished it had no noticeable effect on engine performance, its effect was limited to the MC cruise failing to hold. Also, it is odd that if it was vacuum patency that was causing the problem why is it intermittent and only after periods of seemingly satisfactory engine running. I would have thought a failure of vacuum to supply adequate fuel would be continuous, so here’s another thought; Electrical.

Apart from superstition that there is an electrical gremlin already wired into your wiring harness :-[ I believe that the cause of the problem you describe is to do with the impulse generator and / or the it’s ancillary component(s). Here why.

If memory serves me, you still are using iridium spark plugs. I use iridium spark plugs in my bikes that have magnetos as their source of power for ignition, rationale is magnetos though highly efficient they are also high maintenance and it either points or contact rings foul (corrode), the energy they produce drops off rapidly and thus spark at the plug also drops off to the point my old English bikes either won’t start when hot (key point), or will run rough at speed. The iridium plugs in part largely offset the steady deterioration of corrosion to points and contacts within the magneto as they (the iridium plugs), are far better at producing a good spark from a wider parameter of received energy from the ignition source.

An example of this can be seen in aviation. Before any flight of an aircraft fitted with a reciprocating engine one part of a pre-flight check consists of an engine run up during which the magnetos (reciprocating aircraft engines are fitted with duel ignition systems), are check. Essentially depending of engine type and variant the engine is brought up to say 1250RPM and with the fuel mixture at full lean and after the engine has reached its operating temperature, first one magneto is switched off and then the other and during each time one of the mags is switched off a drop in engine RPM is noted. However, if an RPM drop is noted that is below accepted parameters (usually >200-250RPM), and before it is switched back on, if the mixture is pushed in to richen the fuel mixture you can (at times), elicit and increase in engine RPM, which tells you the ignition (magneto), is in need of attention. Beginning to sound familiar?

I have only ridden one ST1100 that has needed to have its impulse generator replaced and at that time my money too was on a fuel issue, but Honda MPE proved me wrong.

One way Laurie you could test this theory is if you have any of the original spark plugs floating about your shed, fit them and see if either (a) you can start the engine or, (b) the problem is manifest at a much earlier time or temperature or distance travelled.

Or to quote a phrase from Star wars, “look for the source Laurie, look for the source!

Just a thought.

Ciao, the can :)
 

Offline saaz

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2012, 12:58:55 PM »
The vacuum fuel tap might not be working properly (you easily bypass to test with the hoses already on the bike), check that the vacuum hose to the tap has vacuum.  Fuel filter might be blocking, that happened to mine, so after a while the bike starves for fuel.  Petrol cap might not be venting properly - test by leaving it open and see if the problem happens.  These are probably the main causes of such a problem that have been identified over the years.
John
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Offline Biggles

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2012, 01:01:35 PM »
Quote: "Electrical.

Apart from superstition that there is an electrical gremlin already wired into your wiring harness  I believe that the cause of the problem you describe is to do with the impulse generator and / or the it’s ancillary component(s). Here why."



Great essay, even if it doesn't fix the problem!!
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Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 01:30:06 PM »
Hey Dickie,nice to hear from you!
Ive solved the problem, well kinda/sorta/maybe. As soon as the cash is at hand the old girl is heading off to my friendly local bikeshop. I figure I can either spend a whole lot of frustrating hours trying to sort this out, and give me and everyone around me the shits in the process, or I can spend a lot of money and have an expert sort it Out. I choose the latter....
BTW, ive not been able to reproduce the problem in the shed, however, at a constant 2000rpm it sounds dodgy. At a constant 5000 rpm it sounds very very dodgy.
Ive checked as much of the fuel system as I feel inclined at the moment, so the rest of the day will be spent drinking wine,skinny dipping in the pool, and learnin to play the bag pipes...
Laurie
BTW again, whats involved in replacing the pulse generator thingy????
 

Offline Tackleberry

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 02:44:03 PM »
Laurie,  (if you have an 1100)

Just had this happen to my bike and the cost is the reason I didn't take a trip I had planned on leave.  9hrs @ $99 p/h to find it, without the other work. 

Apparently it is a well know problem in the ST1100 that after a while the relay behind the headlight adjustment provides power to the fuel pick up pump and will die intermittently therefore not providing fuel to the engine.  You then have to get the pump to pick up again thus the reason for the delay in starting. 

Get your mate to check the relay behind the left fairing for an intermittent power problem and replace it,  I also had the fuel pick-up replaced just in case, and now no dramas at all. 

Hopefully this helps your situation. 
Steve
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Offline saaz

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2012, 02:57:43 PM »
The fuel pump itself can get weak as well, but usually this become more evident in hotter weather as the pump struggles with the added pressure in the tank.
John
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Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2012, 11:05:07 AM »
Hi Fellas
An update on the no go problem............well,there is no update. Ive been short of time,money and inclination, so the bike has been sitting in the shed gathering dust. Its now home to a colony of spiders and a big fat green frog, gotta love an environmentally friendly bike!!
I have made arrangments for my mechanical colleagues at TAFE to have a look and do some testing. Even if they cant isolate the problem they may be able to eliminate what it isnt......Will let you all know what the outcome is.
Called into the Honda dealer this morning to get a price on a fuel pump relay and a fuel pump, just in case. FAAAAAARK!!!!
Relay $100, Pump assembly $742.25. Heres hoping that the pump isnt the problem.............
Laurie
 

Offline saaz

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »
Laurie, hope it is not a $$$ fix.  I recall I read somewhere that someone found the fuel inlet hose in the tank going into the pump had come loose. Also, varnish can build up in the fuel pump, and it gets progressively worse at pumping. This can be cleaned out.
John
(Ridden on and forever in our hearts)
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terrydj

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2012, 01:06:44 PM »
Not knowing anything me thinks id its a carburetor model?? :think1

It could be as simple as water in the fuel???? throw a couple of cap fulls of Metho in the tank and take it for a run. Metho breaks down the water into smaller ahhhhhhhh molecules/droplets,  so it can pass through the Carby jets. Kinda gets rid of it???
Hmmmm maybe the term used by experts to define how it works is  "dehumidifier" something that removes moisture from the environment. Petrol being the environment
Costs bugger all and is worth a go
 

Online Brock

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 01:22:35 PM »
The term is miscible in water, meaning the water and metho molecules merge with each other ( forms a cloudy liquid). This mixture is then more easily and evenly mixed with the fuel, allowing the water meth mix to burn. This actually gives a slight power increase as the water content turns to super heated steam
Brock
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terrydj

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2012, 02:29:46 PM »
"WoW" Possibly the first thing that I have read that sounds so technical and in  reality is so cheap, but in reality when the description of a word actually means "something that can be mixed together or can dissolve into one another in any proportion without separating kind of takes the fun out of just saying it can be mixed together.
Yeah chocolate syrup, Ice cream and milk is is miscible but I know better, its a Milkshake. :rofl
 

Offline Aj1300

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2012, 05:35:37 PM »
Laurie, you could try this if you know someone else with a 1100, and swap your coil packs onto the good bike and see if they play up.Put the good ones on your bike to see if there is any difference . It could be a bad connection. While you have it apart start it up and spray carbie cleaner over you vac hoses/inlet. If the rpm picks up you have a leak :blk13
Adam aj1300/ KTM
 

Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 08:09:25 AM »
Hi Fellas
Thanks for everyones input. Like I said, the bike mechanic at work is going to have a look at it for me, hopefully it will be sorted soon. Will let you all know what happens.
Cheers
Laurie
 

Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 06:19:21 PM »
Hi Chaps
My TAFE motorcycle mechanic has had a good look at the bike, and everything checks out as it should. Fuel pump, coils,Pulse generator, vacuum tap, Ignition unit etc etc etc, is all good. The fuel cut of relay(which now seems to be the likely culprit) checked out ok, but on Monday he will bypass it and then see how it goes...... This has been a frustrating problem but it will eventually get sorted.
Cheers
Laurie
 

Offline Abe

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 07:45:45 PM »
Thanks for the update,  :) :) hope you get to the bottom of it, soon.

Cheers
Dave
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Offline WendyL

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 09:30:35 AM »
Hi Laurie,

Mine was doing something similar earlier this year, ended up being the fuel pump, so lots of $$$$ later, I got it back and it hasn't skipped a beat since (except for not getting home from the bike shop that night because they left one of the wiring harnesses unplugged!  :cuss :cuss :cuss :cuss :cuss)

Good luck with finding the problem.

Wendy
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Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 09:44:47 AM »
Hi Wendy
Would you mind describing the symptoms your bike displayed?, It may help me with diagnosing my problem.
Cheers
Laurie
 

Offline WendyL

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 02:14:13 PM »
The bike starts and runs fine,for a while......After 50/60ks of riding it all turns to crap. Zooming along quite nicely and then no power followed by a complete stop. Allow the bike to sit for 10 minutes,crank it over and still nothing. Wait another 10 minutes,give it 3/4 choke and eventually it starts.

That abous sums up the first time it happened, although we were on our way to Adelaide River (200km round trip) when it first coughed and spluttered.  Because I got it going again, we continued on, and made it to Adelaide River.  It started fine to come back, but the problems started about 10km out of town.  It ended up stopping completely about 15km north of town, just within mobile range to get a friend with a trailer to rescue me.

Replaced the fuel filter the next day, as it didn't look real flash.  Took the bike for a test ride, all was well so thought I'd fixed the problem.  My next long ride, same thing happened again so I took my bike into the local Honda dealer.  They replaced the fuel pump with a modified after market one, total cost just over $600.

Got the bike about halfway home after a couple of stops and it coughed and sputtered then died completely.  Another trailer trip home (third one in 4 weeks) and I just left the bike under the carport for a couple of weeks, too peed off to even look at it.  Rang the dealer, they said I could bring it back in, but there would probably be an additional charge.  That's when I decided it was time for me to take a more active role in maintaining my bike.  I charged the battery, which was totally flat, and the bike started, but the gauge sat on 12V, even when I revved it.  I pulled the side cover off and started checking wiring.  Lo and behold, I found the 2 ends of a wiring harness hanging loose.  Plugged it in and haven't looked back, although I still cop flak about the bike being unreliable.....
:KissBlow
Wendy
2005 ST1300
FarRider #913
 

Offline laurie

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 05:02:24 PM »
Hi Wendy
Thanks for your reply, very helpfull.
Laurie
 

Offline gaz

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Re: Help solve this problem......
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2012, 02:45:02 PM »
have you tried turning it off and waiting 30 seconds then turning back on.
Taking over one emoticon at a time >:D